Originally posted by Chairman
[email protected] 24 2003, 01:05 PM
"Mussolini retained his socialist loyalties even though he had also become a nationalist."
How is this so? He tortured and persecuted all socialists and socialist organisations. He wasn't loyal to socialists at all. Mussolini often blamed the bourgeoisie, he said they were to weak and not patriotic enough, but this was nothing to do with a loyalty to socialism. It is because Mussolini was previously a socialist and as such reverted to attacking an old enemy when there was no one else to blame.
"Mussolini was, however, far from being any sort of free-marketeer. Just like most modern-day Leftist politicians, he advocated private enterprise within a strict set of State controls(...)"
Mussolini's system was a corporate system in which capitalists and the state controlled the economy, the state would choose what was produced and how much, the capitalists would make a big profit. In socialism people do not make big profits and it is the workers who control the state planning.
"One major "socialist" reform of the economy that is still a misty ideal to modern-day Leftists Mussolini actually carried out. He attempted to centralize control of industry by declaring a "Corporate State" which divided all Italian industry up into 22 "corporations". In these corporations both workers and managers were supposed to co-operate to run industry together -- but under Fascist guidance, of course. The Corporate State was supposed to ensure social justice and give the workers substantial control of industry. "
LOL, the workers did not participate at all. Mussolini said they would to please workers. However, it was Fascist Party representatives that were sent to represent the workers. As a result the 3 parties represented were the State (Civil Service was entirely fascist party members), capitalists and then the fascist party representatives, where do the workers get any say in this?
Mussolini embraced competition and private ownership as much as he did state planning and common ownership, this book looks at one aspect of a dual system, you can easily look at the other aspect and call it free-market. Mussolini was neither a socialist or a capitalist. He was a Fascist, a movement that synthesised elements of both economic systems.
Furthermore, nationalism is not inseperable from the leftist movement, you are correct. However, what Mussolini exhibited is imperialism, bourgeois nationalism and national chauvanism.
Lets look at the reasons why this is false [i]Fascism is in fact leftist, and not rightist.
-Fascism is rigthist because it ignores class divisions, this is because it sees them as entirely natural.
-Fascism is rigthist because it sees that human better themselves through competition.
-Fascism is rigthist because it accepts that greater prosperity is generated by private wealth.
-Fascism is rigthist because it says human nature is inherently flawed.
-Fascism is rightist because it says that people are born to rule.
I am only looking at aspects of Fascism that identify with key tenets of the new right, I could find more if I were to look at traditional conservatism. It is true that Fascism does enact some leftist policies, this is because the left stresses state control, as does fascism. However, on a fundamental ideological level it is a right-wing movement, this is why it has always been classified as a right-wing movement. Now I will list the key tenets of the New-Right's view of the world that correlate with the above list.
-The New Right ignores class divisions, it sees them as entirely natural.
-The New Right sees that human develop through competition.
-The New Right says that greater prosperity comes from private wealth.
-The New Right says that human nature is inherently flawed.
-The New Right says that there is a set of people 'born to rule'. [/b]
He kept his socialist loyalties, he still got support from the socialist parties. He inplemented socialist policies.
Mussolini's system was a corporate system in which capitalists and the state controlled the economy? Again, you are confusing capitalism. Capitalism advocates liberty. Laissez Faire means to let alone, to let things be. It advocates complete freedom for people to do what they chose. Capitalism basically opposes governmental regulation of or interference in commerce. Those economies seen with mussolini were not Capitalistic because of the fact that the economy was a planned and controlled economy, by the gov't. What they did have was mercantilism. Yahoo defines mercantilism as being "a system of commercial controls in which industry and trade, especially foreign trade, were merely seen as means of strengthening the state. Navigation laws, trade monopolies, taxes, and paternalistic regulations of all kinds bore heavily upon the rising class of merchants(...)". What you described which was basically true, was in fact mercantilism. Just what we have in Latin America.
How can one embrace competiotion while embracing protectionism and regulations that prevented competition. That is a false statement. He regulated the economy. He allowed competition to a degree, but always in control of the economy. You write it as if he was an advocate of competition and that is a false statement. That is not laissez faire.
Let me examine you reasons for Fascism being Leftist.
-Fascism is rigthist because it ignores class divisions, this is because it sees them as entirely natural.
Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society.... it never denies the existence of class divisions. Rightits dont ignore class divisions either.
Fascism affirms the unchangeable, beneficial, and productive inequality of mankind.
-Fascism is rigthist because it says human nature is inherently flawed.
Fascism has disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights .
-Fascism is rightist because it says that people are born to rule.
You say that Fascism says that, but where? I just want to read it. I at least gave you an article with many references and real quotes.
Anyways,
The fascist leadership, notably Mussolini, admitted the multi-faceted influences of liberalism, marxism, syndicalism, risorgimento, socialism, catholicism and nationalism on their ideology. Fascism is the antithesis of democracy.
These next paragraphs were taken from an article from The Coastal Post - October, 1995. The artcle is callded Fascism and Soacialism explained.
"In history and political science classes we were told that the Nazis were "fascists" and that the Soviets were "communists." It is not hard to come to the conclusion that people living under fascism and people living under communism seemed to be coming out in the same place....as terrified slaves (if not dead).
Properly understood, fascism and communism were, as the Soviet and German labels openly declared, actually the same thing:, just two varieties of socialism. The fascist praises the free market, but secretly works to destroy it. The communist condemns the free market and openly works to destroy it. Both tactics are tools of a monopolistic type of parasitism known as socialism. The key goal in either case is the destruction of economic market competition so that certain ruthless individuals(Hitler, Mao, Mussolini, Stalin) can acquire huge wealth and power. "
"Capitalism is good if government doesn't interfere or take sides. Such does not exist anywhere in the world today. Capitalism becomes something else that is very bad (and is not even capitalism anymore) when government interferes with competition and takes the side of various corporate elites."
I have to agree with him on Capitalism. Capitalism is basically Laissez Faire, governmetn intervention is what ruins it.