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View Full Version : Interview with Golden Dawn deputy - "There is already civil war"



Tamerlane
19th October 2012, 14:19
Greece's far-right party, Golden Dawn, won 18 parliamentary seats in the June election with a campaign openly hostile to illegal immigrants and there are now allegations that some Greek police are supporting the party.

"There is already civil war," says Ilias Panagiotaros. If so, the shop he owns is set to do a roaring trade.

It sells camouflage gear, police riot gloves, face masks and T-shirts extolling football hooliganism.

On the walls are posters celebrating the last civil war in Greece, which ended in 1949.

"Greek society is ready - even though no-one likes this - to have a fight: a new type of civil war," he says.

"On the one side there will be nationalists like us, and Greeks who want our country to be as it used to be, and on the other side illegal immigrants, anarchists and all those who have destroyed Athens several times," he adds.

You hear comments like this a lot in Greece now but Ilias Panagiotaros is not some figure on the fringes: he is a member of the Greek parliament, one of 18 MPs elected for the far-right Golden Dawn in June's general election.
Here is the full article on the BBC website. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19976841)

Watching what is happening in Greece makes me feel like I'm staring at a car-wreck happening in slow motion. It's terrible, but you can't look away and ignore it. Nor should you.
This is something that especially worries me: '"Greek society is ready - even though no-one likes this - to have a fight: a new type of civil war," he says.'
Strikes and protests - and the clashes between the protesters and police during those events - were one thing, but I think that a shift of some sort has happened. The motorbike patrol by leftists recently, the police forces pretty blatantly teaming up with GD, the attack on the Chyterio theatre. The situation has stepped up. As the article says, Golden Dawn's 8 offices around the country have become 60 since the election!.

Last month, the Greek prime minister, Antonis Samaras, warned Europe that his country was on the edge of a Weimar Germany-style social collapse.

What I have seen on the streets of Athens convinces me this is not rhetoric. The situation is changing rapidly.

There is a violent far-right party, its MPs committing and inciting violence with impunity; a police force that cannot or will not prevent Golden Dawn from projecting uniformed force on the streets. And a middle class that feels increasingly powerless to turn the situation round.

Most dangerous, I think is that the idea has been sown and seems to be spreading. The idea that only a proper fight will resolve things now. I mean, that's basically one of GD's main angles, isn't it?

Another thought. We'd like to think that something like this - a civil war - couldn't happen in modern Europe, but the clusterfuck that was Yugoslavia in the 90's shows us that it definitely is possible. The same situation shows us that Europe might well not do anything at all.

How can those who oppose the Golden Dawn - both locals and those outside of Greece - support that struggle?

Zealot
19th October 2012, 14:42
Thanks for the laugh.

Although it's tragic that we actually have to take this hilarious party seriously.

maskerade
19th October 2012, 14:59
Thanks for the laugh.

Although it's tragic that we actually have to take this hilarious party seriously.

what's funny about a party going around brutally assaulting immigrants and leftists?

Tim Cornelis
19th October 2012, 15:06
Does this mean we can legitimately and lethally target Golden Dawn members according to international law?


The second spurt is occurring now, as the coalition government - which includes Conservatives, Socialists and the "moderate" Marxists of the Democratic Left party - has failed to put a lid on the crisis.

This should be moderate "Marxists," and even then it's exaggerated. Democratic Left Party is to the right of SYRIZA.

Zealot
19th October 2012, 15:31
what's funny about a party going around brutally assaulting immigrants and leftists?

Twist my words to get some rep. Genius. They view Greece as already engaged in civil war, they demand everyone to stand up for their ridiculous leader, and on and on and on... I had never even heard of this shitty fascist party until recently.

maskerade
19th October 2012, 16:09
Twist my words to get some rep. Genius. They view Greece as already engaged in civil war, they demand everyone to stand up for their ridiculous leader, and on and on and on... I had never even heard of this shitty fascist party until recently.

There are lots of groups that talk about a civil war in Greece, not just the fascists. Mostly anarchist groups that base their analysis on the works of Tiqqun talk about a 'war of civility' where the battle is to define Greek civil society, and that 'war' is very much real.

While Golden Dawn undoubtedly have strange practices, not to mention their extreme violence, the fact that so many people seem to be drawn to them is something which is extremely worrying. My point was that to call them hilarious is to dismiss them as a non-threat. And also to get rep, you're right about that.

Tamerlane
19th October 2012, 16:30
I agree with Maskerade.

The problem with "hilarious" parties and fringe groups is that they can turn pretty serious, fast. The Nazis, too, were at one time a bunch of disgruntled ex-soldiers and nutjobs in a beer hall somewhere in Germany.

Through their sheer bullish force of will, luck, and people who didn't take them seriously, violent groups like the Golden Dawn can get to power. They already have, as you well know - not just parliament, but also into the police forces.

What if? Spain 1936 it isn't, but a lot of things can go to hell in a handbasket, in a short period of time, and not many will dare to intervene. Hell, the EU didn't do much of anything during the bloody breakup of Yugoslavia.

How likely is it that armed conflict could break out in Greece, and how soon? More importantly, what relatively peaceful measures could be taken to ensure that the power of fascists doesn't increase, and to empower the leftist idea?

Zealot
19th October 2012, 16:38
There are lots of groups that talk about a civil war in Greece, not just the fascists. Mostly anarchist groups that base their analysis on the works of Tiqqun talk about a 'war of civility' where the battle is to define Greek civil society, and that 'war' is very much real.

While Golden Dawn undoubtedly have strange practices, not to mention their extreme violence, the fact that so many people seem to be drawn to them is something which is extremely worrying. My point was that to call them hilarious is to dismiss them as a non-threat. And also to get rep, you're right about that.

I never dismissed them as a non threat, in fact, I said "it's tragic that we actually have to take this hilarious party seriously."

brigadista
19th October 2012, 16:41
interested to know from Greek comrades how the previous reign of terror under the Junta effects Greek politics
- in the light of the rise of golden showers ?

piet11111
20th October 2012, 23:43
what's funny about a party going around brutally assaulting immigrants and leftists?

Look at his avatar then remember what that tendency managed to do to the spanish civil war and the german labor movement.

I do my best not to be sectarian in any way but if there is one particular brand of "leftism" that needs to be fought tooth and nail....