The Black Bloc

[Faceless]

Firstly I'm not an anarchist. I am very interested to understand though.
The black bloc; is it a tactic rather than a movement and if so could someone tell me some details. Cheers

I would also like to hear what Marxists think of civil disobedience and the use of Anarchist tactics.

[mentalbunny]

I heard from a seasoned demonstrator that the black bloc is nearly always infiltrated by the police, so stay away if you want to avoid getting nicked.

[Blackberry]

http://www.anarchist-action.org/sections/a...s/blackbloc.php (http://www.anarchist-action.org/sections/anarchism/tactics/blackbloc.php)

[Faceless]

Great link comrade James, cheers. :D

[BOZG]

As a defensive grouping, the black bloc has played a great role in defending many demonstrators from police attacks but unfortunately they have often played an extremely negative role, just smashing things up for the sake of it and getting into situations which have had no real effect on anybody's consciousness. Such examples where at this years G8 protests at Evian, where the black bloc started attacking many local and small businesses which could only result in people coming to oppose them, rather than supporting them.

As for them being infiltrated by the police, that's evident in any movement not just the black bloc but because the black bloc are usually involved in direct action, they're most likely to come up against the state and police infiltration has a much more dangerous effect.

[Faceless]

I came across another site with some good stuff on anarchist tactics. Can someone tell me if the "draino bomb" actually does works and what the hell "draino" even is?

[iwwobblie]

"Draino" is a chemical used to unclog drains.I'm sure it could be used to make a bomb.

[DEPAVER]

Anarchists don't use bombs. If someone is using bombs, they're not an anarchist. They're a confused nutcase.

[Blackberry]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2003, 02:32 PM
Anarchists don't use bombs. If someone is using bombs, they're not an anarchist. They're a confused nutcase.
No, it is up to the inividual anarchist whether they use a bomb or not. It must be made clear their intended target, with innocent lives not being taken.


I would not have a second thought of using a bomb in a time like the Spanish Civil War myself.

[ComradeRed]

comrade james
"I would not have a second thought of using a bomb in a time like the Spanish Civil War myself."
agreed. only when being attacked by fascists/nazis/imperialists, or when in a turbulent times, i.e. rebellion/revolution, should one use violence against fascists/nazis/imperialists. OTHERWISE talk things out.

comrade james
"It must be made clear their intended target, with innocent lives not being taken."
I disagree, if this bomb is used for a target like a market that people depend on to live, or a water storage facility Then it is not O.K. When the revolution you must have the innocent lives with us, not against us.

[Blackberry]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2003, 04:03 PM
"It must be made clear their intended target, with innocent lives not being taken."
I disagree, if this bomb is used for a target like a market that people depend on to live, or a water storage facility Then it is not O.K. When the revolution you must have the innocent lives with us, not against us.
I was talking about State and Corporate targets.

[DEPAVER]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 25 2003, 04:00 AM
No, it is up to the inividual anarchist whether they use a bomb or not. It must be made clear their intended target, with innocent lives not being taken.



NO!
Bombs and violence have zero to do with anarchism, if fact, it's antithetical to anarchism.

How can you have a free society, free of coercion with people planting bombs?

Anarchy is you and me and our families and friends, our neighbors and fellow community members, working to provide for ourselves and each other. It's about non-action.

While the state can engage in repression of action, there is nothing the constabulary can do about non-action. If we organize among ourselves at the local level, create local economies, systems of governance, social support systems, local currency, neighborhood committees; if we turn our backs on
the state and refuse to support or even cooperate with state hierarchical, authoritarian rule, what can they do?

[Adamore]

im w/ james corprate america and state buildings[COLOR=red][SIZE=7][FONT=Arial]

[Faceless]

How can you have a free society, free of coercion with people planting bombs? It could be described as self-defence when innocent protesters regularly find themselves the targets of police harrasment. You have to FIGHT to break your chains. I won't pass judgment on whether violent protesting is a viable means to the sacred end of human liberation.

[ComradeRed]

Tough Question:
What if the market supplying the people with food and water is owned by a evil faceless corporation. It's the only target in miles. Do u hit it or not?

Faceless, I agree that you have to fight to brake your chains, yet not all fights are violent.

[dopediana]

i participated in a black bloc in DC a couple months ago. it wasn't a violent protest therefore the black bloc didn't accomplish anything except for scaring a couple of kids in a BMW who were stuck in the middle of a crowd of punk anarchists who were banging on their windows. it was a bit fun running away when the cops came but that's about it. all it did was piss off the older more experienced and knowledgable protestors.

that's not to say black blocs don't have any effeciency at all. at the IMF protest in DC in '99 there was an extremely well organized group of anarchists who actually lifted up and moved cars to block off segments of streets so policemen couldn't get in.

civil disobedience is for when it's everyone against you. i can see civil disobedience in south america. i can see civil disobedience in any third world country. but when you're in america and the police aren't fucking you up too bad, you're there to change minds, talk to people, and make a difference in the way they perceive things, NOT PISS THEM OFF. there is nothing more useless for your cause than turning potential allies against you.

[BOZG]

Anarchists don't use bombs. If someone is using bombs, they're not an anarchist. They're a confused nutcase.

Are you referring to the use of bombs/explosives/weapons completely or as to the use of "individual terrorism"? If you're referring to individual terrorism, I wouldn't agree that people who use that method are nutcases but I would say that they are confused and disillusioned to some extent that they feel that it is the only way forward. Individual terrorism can NEVER acheive socialism/communism/anarchism because it completely rejects the idea that the masses of people can change society. Individual terrorism merely tends to destroy the revolutionary consciousness of people and can easily push them away. Also, the capitalist system does not comprise of just a small group of people, for every capitalist leader killed, there's another to take their place. The system must be attacked as a whole and by the majority of people, not individual capitalists and by a small group of people. This is why I think Michael Moore, while respecting the sentiment, is ridiculous in believing that by purely removing George Bush as president that American society will change in any way. George Bush is just a puppet to the capitalist system, to the big businessmen just like any capitalist leader is. I think Trotsky's pamphlet "Marxism & Terrorism" makes the argument against "individual terrorism" very clear and is well worth a read, regardless of what left denomination you subscribe to.