Being religious and a Communist?

[Nikolay]

Is there any way a religious person, say a Pentecostal, be a communist? I myself am somewhere between Agnostic to Atheist, but I consider myself a communist. So does religion contradict with Marx's theories and other left-wing theories or can they be compatible to some degree?

[svenne]

No, not really, at least not in real life. It really isn't a big deal, a lot of people are religious, and as long as you're not batshit insane and tries to convert everyone, i don't think anybody cares at all.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Religion isn't compatible with materialism, so yes they do contradict.
People who point out similarities between christianity and communism shouldreas some Marx:
"Nothing is easier than to give Christian asceticism a Socialist tinge. Has not Christianity declaimed against private property, against marriage, against the State? Has it not preached in the place of these, charity and poverty, celibacy and mortifaction of the flesh, monastic life and Mother Church? Christian Socialism is but the holy water with which the priest concentrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat."

I think we should criticize religion, as Marx said:
"Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers from the chain, not in order that man shall bear the chain without caprice or consolation but so that he shall cast of the chain and pluck the living flower. The criticism of religion disillusions man so that he will rhink, act and fashion his reality as a man who lost his illusions and regained his reason; so that he will revolve about himself as his own true sun. Religion is only the illusory sun about which man revolves so long as he does not revolve about himself."

But more we must criticize the conditions that give birth to religion.
I don't think they are compatible, but neither should we be anti-theists.
Anti-theists tend to forgetthe fact that religion comes forth out of social conditions, they tend to attack religion as the bad thing instead of attacking the reason why people become religious.

Marx wouldn't have called himself an atheist though:
“Finally, I desired that, if there is to be talk about philosophy, there should be less trifling with the label “atheism” (which reminds one of children, assuring everyone who is ready to listen to them that they are not afraid of the bogy man), and that instead the content of philosophy should be brought to the people.”
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1842/letters/42_11_30.htm

[Let's Get Free]

Is there any way a religious person, say a Pentecostal, be a communist?

Why not? The mere holding of religious views isn't an impediment to being a socialist whatsoever - that is, someone who wants and understands socialism. In fact, there are plenty of atheists who are avidly pro-capitalist. Preventing religious socialists from joining a socialist Party or organization doesn't make any sense, especially when the whole point of a political party/organization is membership growth based on acceptance of the goal of that party.

[Rafiq]

Marx was not an agnostic; he was a complete atheist, but a hipster atheist. He could be described as a posttheist.

Anyway, you can be a communist, so long as you keep your religion private. You can't be a Marxist though.

[The Jay]

Can you be a marxist? No. Can you be a socialist or communist? You bet.

[Fourth Internationalist]

All Christians should be socialists...

All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. - Acts 2:44-45

There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”). He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet. - Acts 4:34-37

[DasFapital]

I think progress and religion are irreconcilable but right now we are not in much a position to be picky about who we let into our cool anti-capitalist club.

[Capital Resistance]

In this context would it be wrong for me to separate religion from faith or belief in a god? I consider myself to be a person of faith, but oppose the one mindedness and contradictory nature of modern religions.

[Jas0n]

All Christians should be socialists...

All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. - Acts 2:44-45

There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”). He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet. - Acts 4:34-37

This is correct. Jesus was a fantastic example of a communist (little "c").

Various strains of communism, to include Marxism, Leninism, Maoism... these are necessarily secular philosophies.

~

There's another matter here though. Unless one is prepared to philosophize as though he has an answer for every question and comprehensive, complete cosmology at hand ... it may not be an absolute necessity that one reconcile one's politics with one's faith, whatever it might be. Maybe as one becomes a more nuanced thinker, or perhaps I should say: maybe as one refines one's own philosophy, two seemingly-contradictory philosophies can be integrated; maybe, also, one finds that neither philosophy is quite correct to begin with.

[Yuppie Grinder]

You can be religious and ideologically socialist but Marxism is an atheistic and materialist school of thought.

[Zostrianos]

Absolutely, I'm a religious person myself. However, I'm not so sure about Pentecostals: religious fundamentalism is incompatible with socialism in my opinion.

[ind_com]

Is there any way a religious person, say a Pentecostal, be a communist? I myself am somewhere between Agnostic to Atheist, but I consider myself a communist. So does religion contradict with Marx's theories and other left-wing theories or can they be compatible to some degree?

Marxism is a science. So it is not compatible with religion. However, a person who has good understanding of class struggle and the primary aspects of related contradictions, can become a good communist according to the basic political positions that he takes. He can be a Marxist to the extent that he follows Marxism till it explicitly contradicts his religious beliefs. He can even be admitted into a communist party. I recommend the following two works by Lenin.

Socialism and Religion (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/dec/03.htm)

The Attitude of the Workers’ Party to Religion (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1909/may/13.htm)

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I know a self-proclaimed Marxist who is also a devout Catholic. His politics are generally sound until it comes to women or LGBT people. :confused:

[Jas0n]

I know a self-proclaimed Marxist who is also a devout Catholic. His politics are generally sound until it comes to women or LGBT people. :confused:

See... these are two fairly comprehensive cosmologies we are talking about here. Roman Catholicism (as assumption) (pardon the pun) has its own politics does it not? Hasn't the pope made official certain political and economic values through, say, papal encyclical?

[Nihilist Scud Missile]

Is there any way a religious person, say a Pentecostal, be a communist? I myself am somewhere between Agnostic to Atheist, but I consider myself a communist. So does religion contradict with Marx's theories and other left-wing theories or can they be compatible to some degree?

Marxist no - communist yes. Marxists are materialists. One can believe in a sky god and still think workers should run society but not in the Marxist sense. If ones' belief in a sky god does not prop up hierarchical religious institutions which would control the masses as happened in the dark ages.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Religious communalism, which is enacted for the spiritual benefit of a handful of believers (as in the book of Acts), is not the same thing as communism, which seeks to have all workers liberate themselves from wage-slavery and alienation.

I wish people here would stop conflating the two.

Also, I've never understood how anyone can be against masters on the Earth, but at the same time not just believe in, but also worship a being that claims mastery over the entire frigging universe.

If god did exist, he would be a tyrant to be overthrown and destroyed.

[Nikolay]

Marxist no - communist yes. Marxists are materialists. One can believe in a sky god and still think workers should run society but not in the Marxist sense. If ones' belief in a sky god does not prop up hierarchical religious institutions which would control the masses as happened in the dark ages.

By any chance could you recommend me some books about materialism. They don't have to be written by Marx or Engels, I'm fine with any author.

In my grade 12 philosophy class, we're actually going to start talking about materialism but having some books would probably help with my study of it.

[Nihilist Scud Missile]

Religious communalism, which is enacted for the spiritual benefit of a handful of believers (as in the book of Acts), is not the same thing as communism, which seeks to have all workers liberate themselves from wage-slavery and alienation.

I wish people here would stop conflating the two.

Also, I've never understood how anyone can be against masters on the Earth, but at the same time not just believe in, but also worship a being that claims mastery over the entire frigging universe.

If god did exist, he would be a tyrant to be overthrown and destroyed.

I think liberation theology has some merit. How many people on earth believe in god? Devout fundamentalists bother me to the core, even a passive belief in god which shapes peoples world view bothers me but I remember the Cold War quite clearly. Some of the best propaganda capitalists had was the treatment of Christians in Soviet Russia. The cold war had a sort of western Jihadist (holy war) twist to it. Some places in the middle East a straight up Jihadist opposition to communism.

I think abolishing the concept of god is far too advanced for any short term goals of Marxists/Anarchists. It would be nice, sure, but enlightenment values had that goal and it has taken time to erode the influence of religion to the point we are now.

Realistically I think Marxists/Anarchists goals should be to minimize or totally abolish the influence religious opinions and institutions have on society not the belief in god itself. That would be an Orwellian impossible task. Like it or not, come a socialist revolution we're going to need people who believe in god on board. This does suck.

[Robespierres Neck]

By any chance could you recommend me some books about materialism. They don't have to be written by Marx or Engels, I'm fine with any author.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

[Nihilist Scud Missile]

By any chance could you recommend me some books about materialism. They don't have to be written by Marx or Engels, I'm fine with any author.

In my grade 12 philosophy class, we're actually going to start talking about materialism but having some books would probably help with my study of it.

Feuerbach's work on Christianity. Good start. Read some of Schopenhauer's criticism of materialism (he was an idealist but an atheist). As far as Marxism is concerned start here:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/plekhanov/1917/idealism-materialism/index.htm

The materialist conception of history or historical materialism is key to understand for socialists who want to understand the foundation of scientific socialism and socialists who also plan on 'spreading the word' of socialism. The how's and why's outside of complicated critiques of capital such as is found in Das Capital.

[Prometeo liberado]

I think liberation theology has some merit. How many people on earth believe in god? Devout fundamentalists bother me to the core, even a passive belief in god which shapes peoples world view bothers me but I remember the Cold War quite clearly. Some of the best propaganda capitalists had was the treatment of Christians in Soviet Russia. The cold war had a sort of western Jihadist (holy war) twist to it. Some places in the middle East a straight up Jihadist opposition to communism.

I think abolishing the concept of god is far too advanced for any short term goals of Marxists/Anarchists. It would be nice, sure, but enlightenment values had that goal and it has taken time to erode the influence of religion to the point we are now.

Realistically I think Marxists/Anarchists goals should be to minimize or totally abolish the influence religious opinions and institutions have on society not the belief in god itself. That would be an Orwellian impossible task. Like it or not, come a socialist revolution we're going to need people who believe in god on board. This does suck.

When I think of how many Jesuits took up the mantle of Liberation Theology during the days of the Sandinista Revolution only to move away from Catholicism and still later to reach the conclusion that the problem was not with any set theology. The problem was simply organized religion. And as they saw it, organized repression and coercion. I see no reason to argue with that. Religion may lead you to Communism but Communism will never lead you to religion.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I think liberation theology has some merit. How many people on earth believe in god? Devout fundamentalists bother me to the core, even a passive belief in god which shapes peoples world view bothers me but I remember the Cold War quite clearly. Some of the best propaganda capitalists had was the treatment of Christians in Soviet Russia. The cold war had a sort of western Jihadist (holy war) twist to it. Some places in the middle East a straight up Jihadist opposition to communism.

Atheism and secularism are those which by my reckoning need to be accepted and cannot be forced on people, if they to have any success in catching on. I don't think Soviet policy was really about abolishing religion anyway, since they had Orthodox clergy on their payroll. I think it was more about control.


I think abolishing the concept of god is far too advanced for any short term goals of Marxists/Anarchists. It would be nice, sure, but enlightenment values had that goal and it has taken time to erode the influence of religion to the point we are now.

I don't think it would be possible to abolish the concept of god even if everyone became the strongest kind of atheist. It would still exist in such a case, only everyone's position would be on the negative side. My intended goals are much more modest. First and foremost I am a secularist; functions intended to serve the general population should absolutely not favour any particular religious position or institution. All or none. Universal atheism would be nice, even though I don't think it's achievable in my lifetime.


Realistically I think Marxists/Anarchists goals should be to minimize or totally abolish the influence religious opinions and institutions have on society not the belief in god itself. That would be an Orwellian impossible task. Like it or not, come a socialist revolution we're going to need people who believe in god on board. This does suck.

I wouldn't say Orwellian strategies are necessary or even productive. Given the enormity of the task, I'm happy to make incremental gains wherever I can. Despite the vast array of evidence for evolution by natural selection (and we've known of it for around at least a century), there are still people who believe that lifeforms currently on this planet or in the universe were specially created. But that doesn't mean creationism shouldn't be opposed, surely?