What organizations call for organization, disobeying orders and mutiny in the militar

[shuras]

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[TheGodlessUtopian]

I think most leftist groups call for this to happen, generally speaking.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

What organizations call for organization, disobeying orders and mutiny in the military?

I personally would and I would assume the same could be said for anyone I'm affiliated with. Though most of us aren't inclined to even be in the military. If you so happen to join for (presumably) economic reasons then I would say, despite you being a hired dog of the bourgeoisie, remember your class.

[ind_com]

Maybe I should have asked if any group had any success. It seems to me if most groups are in favour of the above it's mostly just rhetoric and abstract calls in the same way groups or individuals say they support this or support that.

In some places in India, parts of the Indian Army have indirectly refused to fight Maoists.

[RedHal]

Mike Prsyner of the PSL was a vet and seems active in this field, theres a video of him on RT on their website:

http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/?pslsite=1

[Flying Purple People Eater]

What organizations call for organization, disobeying orders and mutiny in the military?

If not how does your organization view the military and deal with the general question?

Do you think the military question is avoided on the left?


Maybe I should have asked if any group had any success. It seems to me if most groups are in favour of the above it's mostly just rhetoric and abstract calls in the same way groups or individuals say they support this or support that.

To be quite honest, I think it would be for more beneficial to both the proletariat and it's militia if we expropriated the very weapon manufacturing factories that supply the bourgeoisie with defences rather than try to convert military personell.

If we could take hold of said factories directly, it then means that we can produce these weapons en masse for ourselves while simultaneously depriving the ruling class of the very substance needed to keep their watchdogs in power.

It's why I think that a proletarian revolution is so rabidly beautiful in it's unstoppability. Want to shoot at us? We have your weapons. Want to chase us? We have your vehicles. Want to trace us? We control your networks. Want to bomb us? We have your explosives.

[Raúl Duke]

I think such a measure (of activism/whatever work within the military) is a bit difficult (in the US) within the current situation. While some may have joined the military due to the "economic draft," a military compromising of volunteers is a bit hard to change their minds.

However, during the Vietnam War, a lot of anti-war activism work/etc seeped into the military and this is due in part because of the draft. Besides the efforts of the Vietnamese, another factor is that during the last stages of the war many military men were quite mutinous to varying degrees across the board. Fragging officers,troops not engaging the enemy while at the field, people going AWOL, and even some units refused to deploy at all. The US military leadership even had memos talking about the state of the military and how it diminish their ability to fight.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Where is this proletariat and its militia? When you say convert the military, do you mean to socialism? I too would think that is the wrong way to go about things. I think you are thinking of a civil war type scenario, the question is how do you even get to the civil war scenario?

Oh come on now, comrade. I'm referring to an actual revolutionary period in itself here. Do you really think I was hinting at the second international brigade taking sign-ups on tuesday, or something?

On how to reach said period? You'll find many organisations at odds on this one, but the main proponent is helping to develop class consciousness.
It certainly isn't trying to get law enforcement to fight themselves.



For arguments sake let's say some weapons factories, distribution centres and so on have been taken over. First of all you have police to deal with then other sections of the military and then ruling class from foreign states. Let's not forget that during the Paris Commune and Russian Revolution states previously fighting one another came together to destroy working class uprisings.

Hence the expropriation of the tools they use to supply and arm themselves, for self-defense!. What would be your alternative during a revolutionary period? Ludditify, bomb the factories and march on Washington with clubs? It's far more idealistic to believe that the sole weapon of the ruling class can be convinced to 'switch sides' than speculate upon revolutionary action, which is what I believe to have misinterpreted in your original post.


I think you are thinking of events far away into the future, we're nowhere near that stage.

Of course I am thinking about a revolutionary period. Trying to get members of the army to break from the larger body and support proletarian interest is going to be crushed just as easily as expropriation of factories (which is far more beneficial to the proletariat because it then has genuine control over a means of production, along with a means to fight back).

[SonofRage]

I was part of a group years ago doing this kind of organizing: The Military Project (http://www.militaryproject.org/)

[DrunkenCosmonaut]

To be quite honest, I think it would be for more beneficial to both the proletariat and it's militia if we expropriated the very weapon manufacturing factories that supply the bourgeoisie with defences rather than try to convert military personell.

If we could take hold of said factories directly, it then means that we can produce these weapons en masse for ourselves while simultaneously depriving the ruling class of the very substance needed to keep their watchdogs in power.

It's why I think that a proletarian revolution is so rabidly beautiful in it's unstoppability. Want to shoot at us? We have your weapons. Want to chase us? We have your vehicles. Want to trace us? We control your networks. Want to bomb us? We have your explosives.

Just wanted to say that this stuck out and caught my eye as I was reading a little here in my spare time. That last paragraph especially is very stirring. This clearly states in words the beauty I've seen in my minds eye for so long!
Thank you.

I wish this guy wrote flyers.

[Aurora]

I would suspect most groups support organisation in the military particularly the ability to form a union but to call for disobeying orders or mutiny is a very specific tactic and dangerous in all but the most extreme situations, in most countries today it would be pure adventurism.
The military question isn't avoided but it has little relevance at present in a non-revolutionary period with low working class organisation and armies of professional soldiers.

[ind_com]

Calling for a mutiny requires strong communist organizations inside the army, and a plan to protect the mutineers. If the mutineers are not strong enough to defeat the rest of the army, then autonomous communist forces should be present to aid them in a prolonged guerrilla war. If the mutiny takes place in large sections of the army, and together with the communist forces, they turn out to be much more powerful than the bourgeois army, then a swift insurrection can be conducted.

However, in today's world, the latter is unlikely to happen because of the professional mercenarism in bourgeois armies. As of now, in Indian areas of dual power, some tendency within the army to respond to the communist call of disobeying orders has been observed.