European Communist Meeting

[Delenda Carthago]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yWhV_4oW5QY/UGbGioFnMJI/AAAAAAAABHE/mIlp0i6FWds/s912/Autokollhta1.jpg


(http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2012/2012-10-01-ecm-omilia-kke)Introductory Speech of the GS of the CC of KKE A. Papariga to the European Communist Meeting, Brussels 1-2 October (http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2012/2012-10-01-ecm-omilia-kke)


(http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2012/2012-10-03-ecm-kleisimo/)The closing speech of Giorgos Marinos, member of the PB of the CC of the KKE, at the European Communist Meeting (http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2012/2012-10-03-ecm-kleisimo/)

[Prometeo liberado]

Is there a list of the attendees? Did I miss it?

[Delenda Carthago]

Is there a list of the attendees? Did I miss it?
Here. (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/)

[ed miliband]

Here. (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/)

hmm, you sure? can't see any communists on there.

[Delenda Carthago]

http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Communist Party of the Peoples of Spain [Sp.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm-pcpe)

(Published: 05.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Communist Party of Workers of Belarus [Ru.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm-belarus-cwpb)

(Published: 05.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Workers' Party of Belgium [Fr.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-belgiumwp1)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Workers' Party of Belgium [En] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-belgiumwp-en)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Communist Workers´ Party – For Peace and Socialism (Finland) [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012ktp-finland)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the New Communist Party of Britain [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-britain-ncp)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-czechia)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Communist Party of Denmark [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012denmark-cp)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Communist Party in Denmark [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document.2012-10-04.6743393510)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the "Communistes", France [Fr.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-communistes-fr)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the PRCF, France [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecmprcf-france)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the URCF, France [Fr.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm-urcf-fr)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Unified Communist Party of Georgia [Ru.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-georgia-ru)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of Communists People's Left – Communist Party, Italy [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012italycpl-en)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Communist Party of Norway [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012norway)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Hungarian Communist and Workers' Party [Ru.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-hungarian-ru)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Unified Communist Party of Georgia [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document.2012-10-04.3449896081)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the German Communist Party [De.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm-german-de)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the German Communist Party [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm-german-en)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Hungarian Communist and Workers' Party [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm-hungarian-cwp-en)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Workers' Party of Ireland [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012ireland-wp)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of Communists People's Left – Communist Party, Italy [Ru.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012italycpl-ru)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the New Communist Party of Netherlands [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012netherlands)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012kkro-en)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation [Ru.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012kkro)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the New Communist Party of Yugoslavia [Ru.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-yugoslavia)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Communist Party of Sweden [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012sweden)

(Published: 04.10.2012)
http://64.19.142.13/inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/document_icon.gif ECM 2012, Contribution of the Communist Party of Turkey [En.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012turkey)

(Published: 04.10.2012)

[ed miliband]

yeah, still...

[Delenda Carthago]

yeah, still...
Well, I can.

[xvzc]

Doesn't look particularly attractive considering that the majority of those parties do not have any concrete plan to smash the bourgeois state and establish proletarian dictatorship. Even if you don't agree that this is the path for socialism in Europe, they are nonetheless stuck in the dead-end process of parliamentary cretinism where -- election after election, year after year -- they are crushed in the tedious process they themselves worship.

[Leo]

What on earth is the pro-people management of capitalism?

How does, or can, the management of a system have anything to do with its overthrow?

[A Revolutionary Tool]

What on earth is the pro-people management of capitalism?

How does, or can, the management of a system have anything to do with its overthrow?

It says the illusion of a pro-people management of capitalism. Capitalism with a happy face you know, social democracy.

[KurtFF8]

What on earth is the pro-people management of capitalism?

How does, or can, the management of a system have anything to do with its overthrow?

Isn't that what the slogan is criticizing though?

[Leo]

Ah, my apologies, that's true.

[Ocean Seal]

hmm, you sure? can't see any communists on there.


yeah, still...
Hurp one liner for the rep/ troll the good old Stalinists.

[ed miliband]

Hurp one liner for the rep/ troll the good old Stalinists.

you're too cynical for your own good sometimes mate; didn't get any rep from that (and i care more about trolling wannabe state-capitalists than rep, for the record).

but no, seriously, i don't see any communists there, or, to channel dauve, the issue isn't that they "aren't communists" but that they are capitalists. and i absolutely despise their politics, thanks.

[l'Enfermé]

"They" aren't really capitalists unless they, you know, belong to the capitalist class, i.e the class that employs wage-labour, owns the means of production, etc, etc.

[bricolage]

"They" aren't really capitalists unless they, you know, belong to the capitalist class, i.e the class that employs wage-labour, owns the means of production, etc, etc.
yeah, I think most of those 'parties' have bourgeois politics but they aren't capitalists (which is actually an important distinction to make). the only 'communist party' that actually are capitalists are the SACP.

[l'Enfermé]

Looking at the list, most of them seem to be Marxist-Leninist sects comrade. I see no hints of any bourgeois politics, unless you would call the coordinator class/bureacratic caste/whatever of the Soviet Union a proper bourgeoisie.

[ed miliband]

"They" aren't really capitalists unless they, you know, belong to the capitalist class, i.e the class that employs wage-labour, owns the means of production, etc, etc.

you're correct on that, as i realised straight after i posted my comment. i phrased it awkwardly, but here is the quote i was alluding to:



We will not refute the CPs, the various brands of socialists, the extreme-left, etc., whose programmes merely modernize and democratize all existing features of the present world. The point isn't that these programmes are not communist, but that they are capitalist.

[Ostrinski]

Looking at the list, most of them seem to be Marxist-Leninist sects comrade. I see no hints of any bourgeois politics, unless you would call the coordinator class/bureacratic caste/whatever of the Soviet Union a proper bourgeoisie.Which many of our comrades here do, and it therefore would make sense that they see ML politics as 'bourgeois'.

[ed miliband]

Looking at the list, most of them seem to be Marxist-Leninist sects comrade. I see no hints of any bourgeois politics, unless you would call the coordinator class/bureacratic caste/whatever of the Soviet Union a proper bourgeoisie.

it doesn't even have anything to do with the ussr anymore; if the kke reached power in greece, for example, what could they possibly do other than manage capital?

[Grenzer]

it doesn't even have anything to do with the ussr anymore; if the kke reached power in greece, for example, what could they possibly do other than manage capital?

Spark a new wave of international revolution.. but you and I both know there's no way in hell that would happen. It presupposes revolutionary politics. The KKE is thoroughly nationalist and reformist in orientation. Personally I don't even see the value in distinguishing reformism and liberalism.. it's all the same in the end.

[Ocean Seal]

you're too cynical for your own good sometimes mate; didn't get any rep from that (and i care more about trolling wannabe state-capitalists than rep, for the record).

but no, seriously, i don't see any communists there, or, to channel dauve, the issue isn't that they "aren't communists" but that they are capitalists. and i absolutely despise their politics, thanks.
I didn't accuse you of mining for rep. I said it was either for the rep or for trolling Stalinists. And you admitted it was the latter. However, there are people who would have done it for the rep. Its not really cynical, your post didn't have anything to do with the thread, it was as you said for trolling wannabe state-capitalists.

[Delenda Carthago]

The KKE is thoroughly nationalist and reformist in orientation.
That was thrown on a post about a European Meeting, organised by KKE, to promote the nessesity of CPs to stop have illusions on managing the capitalist system and to put socialist revolutions back in the direct agenda. Speaking on a party that could be goverment right now, but it refused to participate in a capitalist goverment.





Your stupidity is like Michael Jordan on court. It can reach really really high.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/3/35/Mj-slam_dunk_comp.jpg

[Delenda Carthago]

http://inter.kke.gr/document_icon.gif (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-anticommunism2) Resolution: Anticommunism is the Enemy of the Peoples [En., Ru.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-anticommunism2) http://inter.kke.gr/document_icon.gif (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-no-to-the-war) Resolution: “No to the imperialist war!” [En., Ru.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-no-to-the-war) http://inter.kke.gr/document_icon.gif (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-on--balkan) Resolution on Balkan (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-on--balkan) http://inter.kke.gr/document_icon.gif (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-struggle) “For the strengthening of the struggle of the working class in Europe” (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-struggle)

[ed miliband]

That was thrown on a post about a European Meeting, organised by KKE, to promote the nessesity of CPs to stop have illusions on managing the capitalist system and to put socialist revolutions back in the direct agenda. Speaking on a party that could be goverment right now, but it refused to participate in a capitalist goverment.





Your stupidity is like Michael Jordan on court. It can reach really really high.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/3/35/Mj-slam_dunk_comp.jpg

haha, even right-wing, conservative parties have "international meetings" -- doesn't stop 'em being nationalist. actually, this is a case in point.

[ed miliband]

http://inter.kke.gr/document_icon.gif (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-anticommunism2) Resolution: Anticommunism is the Enemy of the Peoples [En., Ru.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-anticommunism2) http://inter.kke.gr/document_icon.gif (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-no-to-the-war) Resolution: “No to the imperialist war!” [En., Ru.] (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-no-to-the-war) http://inter.kke.gr/document_icon.gif (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-on--balkan) Resolution on Balkan (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-on--balkan) http://inter.kke.gr/document_icon.gif (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-struggle) “For the strengthening of the struggle of the working class in Europe” (http://inter.kke.gr/IntAct/int-meet/ecm2012/ecm2012-resolutions/ecm-struggle)

i wasn't alive until the early 90s, but i imagine i'd get nostalgia reading this stuff if i was born in the 60s or 70s.

[Delenda Carthago]

i wasn't alive until the early 90s, but i imagine i'd get nostalgia reading this stuff if i was born in the 60s or 70s.
Hi.

Merkel was here two days ago. Our basic slogans were:

"The people's tyrrants, thieves and robbers/ are Troika- goverment- capitalists"

"Class struggle cause we refuse to live with 400 euros"

"Without you not a cog turns, worker you can make it without the bosses"


Wanna see how we did?

KF1IY5AK7Lk

We had more people than everyone else combined.


You wanna know what this means? This means BLOW ME.


Bye.

[ed miliband]

should i go over to greece to blow you or do you wanna come here?

[Delenda Carthago]

You can post pictures of your demos. I guess its pretty much the same.

[ed miliband]

size isn't everything my friend. ;)

[Delenda Carthago]

Of course not. But a workers demo with basic slogans that workers demand their own power and call for revolution and reaches that size, is not something you can be funny about from your couch, since you dont know much about class struggle, is it?

[ed miliband]

Of course not. But a workers demo with basic slogans that workers demand their own power and call for revolution and reaches that size, is not something you can be funny about from your couch, since you dont know much about class struggle, is it?

a) i was (troll-)"flirting" with you, since you asked me to blow you, not making a serious point.
b) i don't have a couch to sit on.
c) i "know about class struggle" -- unless you have anything more to teach me?

[Delenda Carthago]

a) i was (troll-)"flirting" with you, since you asked me to blow you, not making a serious point.
b) i don't have a couch to sit on.
c) i "know about class struggle" -- unless you have anything more to teach me?
a. I got that. I was reffering to your whole additude on this post.
b. you should buy one, they are pretty cool. i m on one right now.
c. you was born in the 90s, in England(if I remember well) and you are part of a tendecy that is far from rooted to working class. Trust me, you have seriously lot to learn. Not by me, by the class itself. When you will face austerity, when you will have to convince your co-workers to strike, when you will have to wake up at 6AM to go and guard a strike, when you will have to go every day, factory after factory and workplace after another to talk to the workers, and face the snitch, the fascist, the one that is in favour of the boss etc., then maybe you will get a blur image of what class struggle looks like. Thats how you get that numbers, not by making fun on people on Revleft.

[Prometeo liberado]

Coould ed and Delenda please get a room? Please?:crying:

[Yuppie Grinder]

Spark a new wave of international revolution.. but you and I both know there's no way in hell that would happen. It presupposes revolutionary politics. The KKE is thoroughly nationalist and reformist in orientation. Personally I don't even see the value in distinguishing reformism and liberalism.. it's all the same in the end.

Reformism is what happens when the incompatibility between socialism and liberalism goes unrecognized by the left.

[Devrim]

yeah, I think most of those 'parties' have bourgeois politics but they aren't capitalists (which is actually an important distinction to make). the only 'communist party' that actually are capitalists are the SACP.

The Chinese Party perhaps?

Devrim

[bricolage]

The Chinese Party perhaps?

Devrim
:blushing: ah yes...

[Positivist]

What on earth is the pro-people management of capitalism?

How does, or can, the management of a system have anything to do with its overthrow?

It refers to "pro-people" management as an illusion.

[Aurora]

Could someone trash all the ultraleft crap in this thread?

By not even critiquing the KKE and other CP's you show what hopeless sectarians you are.

As regards the articles i've read so far (introduction, closing and contribution of the Workers Party of Ireland)i think they are correct in identifying the causes of the current crisis and in putting forward a program of absolutely no participation in a bourgeois government, no support for the imperialist wars today and the coming wars, for the advancement and preparation of the working class for the seizure of power and for the construction of socialism.

My main criticism of the KKE opening was the lack of clarity on their position regarding the Golden Dawn who along with similar groups in other countries could lead the fight against the workers movement, the Golden Dawn is using the failure of the bourgeois-democratic state to take over state functions from the street by acting as a police force in beating down immigrants and by providing food to needy Greeks.
The KKE needs to spearhead the creation of a Communist presence in opposition to the GD's. It needs to be the communists organisation who are capable of providing food when you need it, who can rally to stop evictions and repossessions and who are capable of protecting workers marches and demonstrations from police and GD thugs.
By showing that communist-workers are capable of doing this the class becomes more confident in it's own ability to rule.

[Pravda]

Isnt this NKPJ (New communist party of Yugoslavia) confused Serbian nationalistic party?Their members were banned from West Balkan subforum becouse of this. I mean they supported Tomislav Nikolic, leading serbian nationalist politician, in president elections four years ago...