Capitalism & Bullying

[Comrade #138672]

Even though bullying may seem like a trivial problem, many bullied people become depressed and some of them may even commit suicide (mostly teenagers, I believe).

I read about a recent suicide in the newspaper. A 13-year old boy in the Netherlands who couldn't take it anymore. A photo of his face was shown. As I looked at the picture, I started to wonder why he deserved this, and whether we couldn't do something to prevent similar tragedies in the future or at least reduce their frequency significantly. Is it possible to do this?

Most of the time bullying seems closely related to (opportunistic) discrimination. So isn't bullying related to Capitalism? You know, dividing the workers and make them fight each other. If so, would abolishing Capitalism make bullying disappear?

Your thoughts please.

P.S. I have been bullied myself.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I don't think trying to tie every little thing to capitalism really helps much. I mean sure, there is a link that says "hey, alienation of labour, division of labour". I mean, these might be contributory factors, and certainly capitalist society might heighten instances of discrimination based on ethnicity, race, gender etc., but I don't think tying bullying to capitalism helps that much ,because it assumes that within capitalism there will always be bullying, and without capitalism there will be none, when in reality it's a more nuanced problem.

Not that some aspects of capitalism, in relation to the labour process and division of labour, don't contribute to what they say on the tin...the divison of the working class amongst themselves...but I don't think capitalism is the sole or most important cause of what is, essentially, a sort of 'homosocial' problem with the nature of humans.

[Comrade #138672]

I don't think trying to tie every little thing to capitalism really helps much. I mean sure, there is a link that says "hey, alienation of labour, division of labour". I mean, these might be contributory factors, and certainly capitalist society might heighten instances of discrimination based on ethnicity, race, gender etc., but I don't think tying bullying to capitalism helps that much ,because it assumes that within capitalism there will always be bullying, and without capitalism there will be none, when in reality it's a more nuanced problem.

Not that some aspects of capitalism, in relation to the labour process and division of labour, don't contribute to what they say on the tin...the divison of the working class amongst themselves...but I don't think capitalism is the sole or most important cause of what is, essentially, a sort of 'homosocial' problem with the nature of humans.Do you think the same about sexism, racism, etc?

You're right about the "trying to tie every little thing to Capitalism" part. I do that a lot. However, I can still prioritize.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

No, sexism and racism are by-products of capitalism, but bullying is a more all-encompassing term that can be as simple as taking the mick out of someone for being shit at football. Sexism and racism have clear social features, victims and tend to have clearly identifiable reasons and manifestations. Bullying can be random and can be just because one person is an asshole.

[Bakunin Knight]

Perhaps there is a relation due to the hierarchies inherent in the sytem. I think that bullying at schools is mainly due to the compulsory nature of attendance and the hierarchy of the school administration and teachers over the students. The students then strive to form a pecking order to try to be the top of the bottom rather than the bottom of the bottom, and bullying to gain status is a major part of that.

[hetz]

I'm pretty sure than in socialist countries there was much less bullying compared to now, but then I also think that there was much less bullying in the West some 40 years ago.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Seriously? Bullying is a part of intrinsic animal behavior that will always exist within humanity (alpha male mentality, compensation, outlet for aggression and securing of mates all applies here). Best way to beat it in the school system is the boot camp method of instilling unit cohesion which involves being such an insufferable and inhuman bastard that the students will have no choice but to unite out of shared suffering and fear.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Someone will always bully someone else for some reason. Capitalism may aid it in some way, as it may make it easy for the well off children to harass the poorer ones, but even so it will still occur with our without capitalism. Someone just may not like someone else, someone may be jealous that the other does something better than them, someone may want to be a showoff, etc.

Blaming capitalism for bullying just isn't correct.




Seriously? Bullying is a part of intrinsic animal behavior that will always exist within humanity (alpha male mentality, compensation, outlet for aggression and securing of mates all applies here). Best way to beat it in the school system is the boot camp method of instilling unit cohesion which involves being such an insufferable and inhuman bastard that the students will have no choice but to unite out of shared suffering and fear.

THIS however, is not how to deal with it.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I'm pretty sure than in socialist countries there was much less bullying compared to now, but then I also think that there was much less bullying in the West some 40 years ago.

...or it simply wasn't reported.

The same is often said of hate crimes against queer people.Some will say that the rates of discrimination have rose but in actuality it is just that more people are reporting their incidences (hence for the "rise").

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

THIS however, is not how to deal with it.

Why not? If your kids are constantly fighting the best way to deal with it is to take away their toys and if it escalates to physical combat, to spank em both. I'm pretty sure they'll forget their squabble when they've stopped crying.

note to self: Don't have kids

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Seriously? Bullying is a part of intrinsic animal behavior that will always exist within humanity (alpha male mentality, compensation, outlet for aggression and securing of mates all applies here). Best way to beat it in the school system is the boot camp method of instilling unit cohesion which involves being such an insufferable and inhuman bastard that the students will have no choice but to unite out of shared suffering and fear.
Reactionary ideas. Seriously.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Reactionary ideas. Seriously.
Come on. If you guys are really scientific you'd know that evolutionary traits will always exist in at least some capacity no what economic system rules. There is a reason guys like breasts and children are afraid of the dark. We're hardwired that way. And to be perfectly frank bullying may increase slightly if a doctrinaire communist society (end of family unit, people living in huge apartment like complexes) came into being merely due to the fact that people would live and interact in closer and more uniform ways causing conformism to be seen as slightly more important in the eyes of the young and beyond. I'm not saying a benevolent generalismo would stop this, i was just stating the fact that kids generally crave structure and that a little fear for consequences (fear the LORD variety; not "Oh my God he'll cut me again" can help in childish disputes. For God sake even Adventure Time understood this concept and where it goes wrong.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

There is a reason guys like breasts
Wow. Now you're spouting heteronormative crap to support your ideas. :confused:


i was just stating the fact that kids generally crave structure and that a little fear for consequences
Odd argument for an anarcho-leftist to be making. :confused:

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Even though bullying may seem like a trivial problem, many bullied people become depressed and some of them may even commit suicide (mostly teenagers, I believe).

I read about a recent suicide in the newspaper. A 13-year old boy in the Netherlands who couldn't take it anymore. A photo of his face was shown. As I looked at the picture, I started to wonder why he deserved this, and whether we couldn't do something to prevent similar tragedies in the future or at least reduce their frequency significantly. Is it possible to do this?

Most of the time bullying seems closely related to (opportunistic) discrimination. So isn't bullying related to Capitalism? You know, dividing the workers and make them fight each other. If so, would abolishing Capitalism make bullying disappear?

Your thoughts please.

P.S. I have been bullied myself.

In real existing Socialism there were youth groups that socialised children into adulthood. The strange "clique" phenomena that exist in most capitalist societies where children do not like each other because they are with a certain group of people is very strange which i trace back to class divisions in society.

Bullying is a difficult question. Children will most likely always bully each other, but the question is how that kind of behavior is confronted. In Socialism there exist youth groups in which every kid can go to when they are bullied, in Capitalism such options of escaping bullying often does not exist.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I wouldn't say that there will always be bullying (what definition are you using?) among youth. Progress can be reached to where such actions are not even thought of (this would go hand in hand with the struggle against the various aspects of discrimination perpetuated by capitalism).Bullying, I believe, is largely a social-construct which results from the many inequalities faced by young people (and people, in general). Once communism is reached I would say that many of the traits which lead to bullying would no longer exist.

[hetz]

Wow. Now you're spouting heteronormative crap to support your ideas.What exactly do breasts have to do with heteronormativity?

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Wow. Now you're spouting heteronormative crap to support your ideas. :confused:

Evolution advances through breeding. Until the present, this required heterosexuality being the norm (lets not get into how homosexuality has been viewed throughout the ages and how prevalent homo-eroticism used to be in certain periods)

Odd argument for an anarcho-leftist to be making. :confused:
CHILDREN ARE NOT AND SHOULD NOT BE LEADING AND EXTREMELY PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY!
(think of them as apprentices in a guild. Until they learn enough and earn their keep, they have to lug around the shit)

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

What exactly do breasts have to do with heteronormativity?
If you say "men like breasts," it implies that heterosexuality is normal and homosexuality isn't.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Most men like breasts ergo it is the norm. Let the semantic battle begin.

[hetz]

If you say "men like breasts," it implies that heterosexuality is normal and homosexuality isn't. I don't see how that can possibly be true.
Are you saying homosexuals don't like breasts? I certainly know some who do.

[#FF0000]

Most men like breasts ergo it is the norm. Let the semantic battle begin.

The norm where and among who?

The thing about "the norm" is that it changes where you are and who you're talking to.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Most men like breasts ergo it is the norm. Let the semantic battle begin.
As an LGBT person, I'm sick of supposed leftists who always have to pull this shit in this forum. Get a fucking clue.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Meant no offense but assigned norm to correspond to the populace of planet earth. Seeing that homosexuals in the orthodox view (born that way)are a minority, i don't think i said anything insulting.

[#FF0000]

Meant no offense but assigned norm to correspond to the populace of planet earth. Seeing that homosexuals in the orthodox view (born that way)are a minority, i don't think i said anything insulting.

yeah there's nothing controversial about saying "most dudes are straight". But I think when people say something is "normal", I don't think they mean in the strict "conforming to the average" way.

When people talk about "normal" it gives the impression of normal as "acceptable", you know what I'm saying? When someone calls someone's behavior abnormal or not normal, it sounds as though it is something that needs fixing.

Like I said, nothing wrong with saying "most people are like this", but the language of "normal" can be sort of alienating I think. Plus, like I said, "the norm" is very subjective unless you're defining who or where something is "the norm". Even then it might not be true for everyone, you know? I mean, being gay or transgender or this or that might not be "the norm" when you look at THE ENTIRE EARTH but then you talk to me or someone who knows a lot of gay people and there's certainly nothing unusual or abnormal about it.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

As we sheath our grammerous blades a new dawn ascends upon the land, bringing to a close this semantic battle of wills