Kamo Discussion

[Yuppie Grinder]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semeno_Ar%C5%BEakovit%C5%A1_Ter-Petrossian
this guy was a fucking goon
"Kamo, after his release from prison and the seizing of power by the Bolsheviks, seemed bored with the new life outside of prison. Stalin introduced him to Lenin as: "The old bank robber-terrorist of the Caucasus."[47] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semeno_Ar%C5%BEakovit%C5%A1_Ter-Petrossian#cite_note-46) He paced the halls of the Kremlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremlin) until he was allowed to create his own band of men who would help raid money on the other side of the Eastern Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_I)) to support the country.[48] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semeno_Ar%C5%BEakovit%C5%A1_Ter-Petrossian#cite_note-Portrait_p.3D388-47)
Having been given permission to create his own gang, Kamo would test all of his new members to make sure that they were up to the task. Kamo would test his new recruits by taking the new recruits to a forest clearing and have them be attacked by fake White army members (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_movement), bound to a tree, and then put through a fake execution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mock_execution) to test their courage.[49] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semeno_Ar%C5%BEakovit%C5%A1_Ter-Petrossian#cite_note-Portrait_p.3D389-48) Kamo said that with this test "you could be absolutely sure [your comrades] wouldn't let you down."[50] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semeno_Ar%C5%BEakovit%C5%A1_Ter-Petrossian#cite_note-Young_Stalin_p.3D362-49) On one occasion, a recruit revealed himself to a be a spy when tested by Kamo; he was shot on the spot.[50] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semeno_Ar%C5%BEakovit%C5%A1_Ter-Petrossian#cite_note-Young_Stalin_p.3D362-49) Kamo then cut open the man's chest and tore out the man's heart showing it to the other recruits.[50] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semeno_Ar%C5%BEakovit%C5%A1_Ter-Petrossian#cite_note-Young_Stalin_p.3D362-49) When Lenin heard about Kamo's test, he was so disturbed that he sent a message stating that he never wanted to see him again.[49] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semeno_Ar%C5%BEakovit%C5%A1_Ter-Petrossian#cite_note-Portrait_p.3D389-48)"

What are your thoughts on Kamo? Why did Stalin have all monuments to him removed?

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

“When Lenin heard about Kamo's test, he was so disturbed that he sent a message stating that he never wanted to see him again.” Would probably be the reason why Stalin had monuments remove.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Compared to eating babies, ripping out a counter-revolutionaries heart isn't that bad.

[Questionable]

With Lenin's constant cries for "tougher people" during the Russian Civil War, I always wondered if they ever found someone who was just batshit insane. Guess they did.

[blake 3:17]

“When Lenin heard about Kamo's test, he was so disturbed that he sent a message stating that he never wanted to see him again.” Would probably be the reason why Stalin had monuments remove.


Maybe. We could probably make an educated guess depending on when the monument was removed.

Stalin was basically a gangster with some good intentions. The only explanation of the Moscow Show Trials I`ve found convincing was the one put forward is Isaac Deutscher`s. He argues that the show trials were a means of destroying any competition for leadership. The original Bolsheviks, other than Lenin, needed to be killed AND discredited. The only one I can think of who survived was Alexandra Kollontai.

I`m sure there are others here who know more on this...

[Ostrinski]

I know where this thread is going!

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Maybe. We could probably make an educated guess depending on when the monument was removed.

Stalin was basically a gangster with some good intentions. The only explanation of the Moscow Show Trials I`ve found convincing was the one put forward is Isaac Deutscher`s. He argues that the show trials were a means of destroying any competition for leadership. The original Bolsheviks, other than Lenin, needed to be killed AND discredited. The only one I can think of who survived was Alexandra Kollontai.

I`m sure there are others here who know more on this...

Why exactly are you bringing up the purges?
Kamo was died in 1922, and if Lenin didn't want to see him anymore that probably was the reason Stalin removed things dedicated to him.

Now, there are of course stories that Stalin got Kamo killed, but I haven't seen any proof of that.

Deutscher is not trustworthy, at all. You calling Stalin a “gangster” is basically at the same level of Deutscher who instead of using arguments, or even dealing with Stalin's views dismisses them as "incoherent," "crude," "contradictory."

[Geiseric]

Why exactly are you bringing up the purges?
Kamo was died in 1922, and if Lenin didn't want to see him anymore that probably was the reason Stalin removed things dedicated to him.

Now, there are of course stories that Stalin got Kamo killed, but I haven't seen any proof of that.

Deutscher is not trustworthy, at all. You calling Stalin a “gangster” is basically at the same level of Deutscher who instead of using arguments, or even dealing with Stalin's views dismisses them as "incoherent," "crude," "contradictory."

Why is Deutscher not trustworthy? Stalin removing opponents from historical photographs seems trust worthy, right? Along with sending the famillies of people he purged to work camps, or straight up killing them as well, those are such trust worthy acts!

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Why is Deutscher not trustworthy? Stalin removing opponents from historical photographs seems trust worthy, right? Along with sending the famillies of people he purged to work camps, or straight up killing them as well, those are such trust worthy acts!

Where did I claim those were trust worthy?

[l'Enfermé]

Kamo was a good communist. Given 4 death sentences(how does that work? do you get shot, then tied to a pole after you die, shot again, then tied again, and shot again? and so on?).


With Lenin's constant cries for "tougher people" during the Russian Civil War, I always wondered if they ever found someone who was just batshit insane. Guess they did.
Why was he batshit insane? He shot the man first, then ripped out his heart, and he didn't even eat it.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Wow, from reading that wikipedia article, sounded like that guy had an interesting life.

[Mr. Natural]

Want a good portrait of Kamo? It's in Simon Sebag Montefiore's Young Stalin (2007). Yes, I know Montefiore is a liberal, but he didn't make this stuff up.

And Isaac Deutscher is definitely in general another valuable source of material, although Deutscher must be read with the knowledge that he was Trotsky's main biographer and defender.

My red-green best.