Spanish Civil War

[The Cheshire Cat]

Hello everyone,

We, some people of the Reforming of the International Brigade, would like to know more about the Spanish War, and the International Brigades in particular. Is there anyone that can recommend some good books, or tell us something about it?

Thank you.

[Invader Zim]

Is it some kind of re-enactment?

Anyway, take a look at Jason Gurney's, Crusade in Spain. It is the go-to memoir of pretty much every historian who has written on the topic for decades.

[The Cheshire Cat]

Is it some kind of re-enactment?

Anyway, take a look at Jason Gurney's, Crusade in Spain. It is the go-to memoir of pretty much every historian who has written on the topic for decades.

No, this is not a re-enactment. This is the real deal! Sort of. You can take a look at the Re-forming of the International Brigade group if you want.
It will be a new international political organisation in order to defend people from fascist and state attackes everywhere. Amongst others, we will do much more. But we are still debating.
And thank you!

[Ostrinski]

Check out the work of Helen Graham, which Invader Zim has recommended to me. I was educated on the civil war by the works of Hugh Thomas and Antony Beevor.

It's definitely worth looking into as a leftist, as many of the issues of the war revolved around the different strategic lines of the left (coalitionism, reformism, insurrectionism). Generally the left consisted of right wing reformists (PSOE and UGT) and the ultra left CNT-FAI and POUM.

It also served as a sort of prelude to WWII.

[The Cheshire Cat]

Check out the work of Helen Graham, which Invader Zim has recommended to me. I was educated on the civil war by the works of Hugh Thomas and Antony Beevor.

It's definitely worth looking into as a leftist, as many of the issues of the war revolved around the different strategic lines of the left (coalitionism, reformism, insurrectionism). Generally the left consisted of right wing reformists (PSOE and UGT) and the ultra left CNT-FAI and POUM.

It also served as a sort of prelude to WWII.

Thanks, I will order the books and pass on the titles. I knew the Poum and the syndicats (CNT) and their militairy wing (FAI). I did note know the right wing factions, I only knew the Carlists and the nationalists.

But sadly most of my information is based on a movie, called land and freedom. I thought it was a great movie, well made and from a left perspective. But it is ofcourse a very basic and poor information source.

[Ostrinski]

Thanks, I will order the books and pass on the titles. I knew the Poum and the syndicats (CNT) and their militairy wing (FAI). I did note know the right wing factions, I only knew the Carlists and the nationalists.Well by right wing I meant in relation to the labor movement. The UGT was one of the most well organized workers orgs in Europe at the time.

The main right wing organization was CEDA, Spanish Confederation of Autonomous Movements of the Right. It contained monarchists and right-republicans, as well as some fascists in the youth wing (JAP). It was also the first middle class mass party in Spain.


But sadly most of my information is based on a movie, called land and freedom. I thought it was a great movie, well made and from a left perspective. But it is ofcourse a very basic and poor information source.This movie is also pretty biased toward the POUM and CNT.

[Invader Zim]

Thanks, I will order the books and pass on the titles. I knew the Poum and the syndicats (CNT) and their militairy wing (FAI). I did note know the right wing factions, I only knew the Carlists and the nationalists.

But sadly most of my information is based on a movie, called land and freedom. I thought it was a great movie, well made and from a left perspective. But it is ofcourse a very basic and poor information source.

Land and Freedom is, I think rather obviously, based on George Orwell's memoir Homage to Catalonia, which is a fantastic little book - not only because he, like Gurney, captures the hope and optimism of the foreign volunteers who travelled to Spain to fight fascism but also the profound sense of betrayal and disillusionment many of them felt by the end of the war, but also because Orwell was a very accomplished journalist and writer, making the book one of the most enjoyable books to read on the subject.

He also wrote a really vicious hatchet job on the rest of the British press who obfuscated the issue endlessly at the time.

http://www.george-orwell.org/Spilling_The_Spanish_Beans/0.html

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Thanks, I will order the books and pass on the titles. I knew the Poum and the syndicats (CNT) and their militairy wing (FAI). I did note know the right wing factions, I only knew the Carlists and the nationalists.

But sadly most of my information is based on a movie, called land and freedom. I thought it was a great movie, well made and from a left perspective. But it is ofcourse a very basic and poor information source.

FAI was never the CNT's 'military wing'. The FAI was simply an international anarchist organisation that devoted itself to keeping the CNT's anarchist principles alive (as opposed to reformist "revolutionary" syndicalism, and other class collaberationist motives).

I've been reading a hell of a lot about the Civil War recently, myself. It's actually quite saddening what happened. While a strong left current had developed in the eastern side of spain (Catalonia and Valencia), a large portion of the west still clung to very conservative beliefs. This is most likely due to several material conditions at the time (for example, the CNT's boom in barcelona was also the first time that the industrial workers of a spanish city outnumbered the peasantry).

Eventually, Franco was given gratuitous support in terms of provisions and weaponry by the Axis, whereas the Allied powers were content to see the 'emerging' socialist republic die. It was only a matter of time before the republicans where walled in.

Another major issue was the schism within the Republican side was the difference of opinion between the Bolshevists, Trotskyists and Anarchists. After the government violently destroyed the POUM and handed the heads of the movement over to the USSR for (torture?) execution, the CNT was genuinely pissed. A 'war within a war' broke out in madrid, with massive street fighting between the Anarchists and Soviet Union supporters. Franco swooped in with support from Nazi aircraft (some of the first airborne weaponry in the world) and easily flicked aside the in-fighting republic presence.

You can't fight a war if all you do is fight yourself. :sleep:

[Prometeo liberado]

OK, so far only one reference to that shite book from an even more shite of an author, Homage to....whatever. I would recommend any book but that. Also stay away from The Spanish Cockpit. Also crap. Try and start by reading various histories of the different factions, not just the Republican ones.

[The Cheshire Cat]

Well by right wing I meant in relation to the labor movement. The UGT was one of the most well organized workers orgs in Europe at the time.

The main right wing organization was CEDA, Spanish Confederation of Autonomous Movements of the Right. It contained monarchists and right-republicans, as well as some fascists in the youth wing (JAP). It was also the first middle class mass party in Spain.

This movie is also pretty biased toward the POUM and CNT.

In what way is it biased? Maybe the anarchists are depicted a little too positive and the communists somewhat too negative, but in main lines the story is about right, right?

[The Cheshire Cat]

Land and Freedom is, I think rather obviously, based on George Orwell's memoir Homage to Catalonia, which is a fantastic little book - not only because he, like Gurney, captures the hope and optimism of the foreign volunteers who travelled to Spain to fight fascism but also the profound sense of betrayal and disillusionment many of them felt by the end of the war, but also because Orwell was a very accomplished journalist and writer, making the book one of the most enjoyable books to read on the subject.

He also wrote a really vicious hatchet job on the rest of the British press who obfuscated the issue endlessly at the time.

http://www.george-orwell.org/Spilling_The_Spanish_Beans/0.html

I like his 1984. I read it about 3 times, but as a novel, not as historical book. But i think he meant it as a novel.

[The Cheshire Cat]

FAI was never the CNT's 'military wing'. The FAI was simply an international anarchist organisation that devoted itself to keeping the CNT's anarchist principles alive (as opposed to reformist "revolutionary" syndicalism, and other class collaberationist motives).

I've been reading a hell of a lot about the Civil War recently, myself. It's actually quite saddening what happened. While a strong left current had developed in the eastern side of spain (Catalonia and Valencia), a large portion of the west still clung to very conservative beliefs. This is most likely due to several material conditions at the time (for example, the CNT's boom in barcelona was also the first time that the industrial workers of a spanish city outnumbered the peasantry).

Eventually, Franco was given gratuitous support in terms of provisions and weaponry by the Axis, whereas the Allied powers were content to see the 'emerging' socialist republic die. It was only a matter of time before the republicans where walled in.

Another major issue was the schism within the Republican side was the difference of opinion between the Bolshevists, Trotskyists and Anarchists. After the government violently destroyed the POUM and handed the heads of the movement over to the USSR for (torture?) execution, the CNT was genuinely pissed. A 'war within a war' broke out in madrid, with massive street fighting between the Anarchists and Soviet Union supporters. Franco swooped in with support from Nazi aircraft (some of the first airborne weaponry in the world) and easily flicked aside the in-fighting republic presence.

You can't fight a war if all you do is fight yourself. :sleep:

I read somewhere the fai was the militairy wing, hence the 'CNT-FAI' name.
And is is one of the worst events in the history of both anarchism and communism I think.

[Ostrinski]

The FAI, literally Iberian Anarchist Federation was something of a secret society which directed the CNT which was more of a trade union.

[Ostrinski]

In what way is it biased? Maybe the anarchists are depicted a little too positive and the communists somewhat too negative, but in main lines the story is about right, right?Yeah the story is but I think it's dramatized a little bit - that's not to say I didn't enjoy it though.

[The Cheshire Cat]

Yeah the story is but I think it's dramatized a little bit - that's not to say I didn't enjoy it though.

It is one of my favorite movies, actually.

[Invader Zim]

OK, so far only one reference to that shite book from an even more shite of an author, Homage to....whatever. I would recommend any book but that. Also stay away from The Spanish Cockpit. Also crap. Try and start by reading various histories of the different factions, not just the Republican ones.

What a profound post. Could you possibly present your opinion in a manner that makes it appear any less relevant?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Not a complete history but the IMT has a very interesting bio/analysis of Santiago Carillo, a leader of the Spanish Communist Party who played a very destructive role.

http://www.marxist.com/santiago-carrillo-1915-2012-the-man-who-betrayed-two-socialist-revolutions.htm

Felix Morrow has a Trotskyist take on the Civil War, This is definitely worth reading, IMO

http://marxists.org/archive/morrow-felix/1938/revolution-spain/index.htm


Also-this guy is a leftist British expat living in Spain. He gives tours of revolutionary Spain. His site has a wealth of information about that period.

http://iberianature.com/barcelona/history-of-barcelona/spanish-civil-war-tour-in-barcelona/

BTW, I thought Homage to Catalonia was very good. Its a must read, IMO although Orwell himself was somewhat politically naive.