Ahmadinejad's Last Speech At The UN

[Krano]

rYKy4dfSF-o

[The Cheshire Cat]

I couldn't help thinking about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4mfRULfHLs

[Geiseric]

I believe the term is "crocodile tears."

[the last donut of the night]

I believe the term is "crocodile tears."

lol yeah. admittedly i didn't watch the speech but all that blabbering is pretty common here in brazil -- and in latin america -- where our political leaders have to maintain some resemblance of social justice or whatever

[Os Cangaceiros]

God bless that brave man!

And to think, he gave that speech in the belly of the Amerikan imperialist beast!

[Ostrinski]

Translation is quieter than the actual speech, somewhat of a chore to listen to.

What's the gist?

[Yazman]

I believe the term is "crocodile tears."

Maybe, but if you look at the diplomatic cables leaked by wikileaks it does appear that Ahmadinejad is a person who has pushed quite strongly for much more freedom & changes in Iran, but has been consistently smacked down by the military & higher ranking forces in the government. I think this for example is very enlightening. Be aware that the term "SNSC" refers to their version of the executive cabinet:


According to source, President Ahmedinejad surprised other SNSC members by taking a surprisingly liberal posture during a mid January post-Ashura meeting of the SNSC called to discuss next steps on dealing with opposition protests. Source said that Ahmedinejad claimed that "people feel suffocated," and mused that to defuse the situation it may be necessary to allow more personal and social freedoms, including more freedom of the press. ¶ (http://wikileaks.org/cable/2010/02/10BAKU98.html#par3)3. (S) According to source, Ahmedinejad's statements infuriated Revolutionary Guard Chief of Staff Mohammed Ali Jafari, who exclaimed "You are wrong! (In fact) it is YOU who created this mess! And now you say give more freedom to the press?!" Source said that Jafarli then slapped Ahmedinejad in the face, causing an uproar and an immediate call for a break in the meeting, which was never resumed.

I think this article is also equally enlightening: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/do-we-have-ahmadinejad-all-wrong/69434/ Ahmadinejad, while still a bourgeois politician, appears to me to be a dedicated reformer who, like all reformers, is unable to get what he really wants. So ultimately I think what we have here is something that many people who legitimately want changes come across once they get elected - they find that reform is very limited as a pathway for change and that no matter how passionate they are, changes from within can only go so far.

[KiwiSheep]

*yawn* So when does he free the victims of his regime, oh wait he executed them all, and everyone thought the Shah was bad enough. Never forget 1988 (from wikipedia):
The 1988 executions of political prisoners in Iran refers to the systematic execution of thousands of political prisoners across Iran by the government, starting on 19 July 1988 and lasting about five months. The majority of the prisoners killed were supporters of the People's Mujahedin of Iran, although thousands of supporters of other leftist groups, including the Fedaian and the Tudeh Party of Iran (Communist Party), were also executed.

[Yazman]

*yawn* So when does he free the victims of his regime, oh wait he executed them all, and everyone thought the Shah was bad enough. Never forget 1988 (from wikipedia):
The 1988 executions of political prisoners in Iran refers to the systematic execution of thousands of political prisoners across Iran by the government, starting on 19 July 1988 and lasting about five months. The majority of the prisoners killed were supporters of the People's Mujahedin of Iran, although thousands of supporters of other leftist groups, including the Fedaian and the Tudeh Party of Iran (Communist Party), were also executed.

when does HE free the victims of HIS regime? 1988 executions? Ahmadinejad didn't even become president until 2005! In fact, he didn't even get involved in politics until the 90s! Blaming Ahmadinejad for those executions & imprisonments reflects ignorance on your part (no offence) of the Iranian history that you yourself brought up.

Furthermore, Ahmadinejad is one man in a political system where he is merely an elected official, not a dictator. We're not talking about a dictator like Saddam here, we're talking about an elected official who has very limited power.

I'm no supporter of Ahmadinejad or the Iranian government but the things you're attributing to Ahmadinejad here are just absurd. Ahmadinejad had nothing to do with anything the Iranian government did in 1988 or even that entire decade.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

@KiwiSheep: It's true that Ahmadinejad has been accused of being involved with attacks on Iranian hostages in the late 1970s and 1980s. But the evidence of his involvement is rather flimsy, as far as I can tell. In any case, for that event, you're thinking of Ruhollah Khomeini, not Ahmadinejad.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I was also surprised at the attitude a lot of people took during the hiker episode with him, where people on the left were so upset with him not just releasing the hikers in spite of their anti-war credentials. The media has done a good job of painting him as the head of a military dictatorship in Iran, rather then just a bourgeois politician who has to wrangle with the state bureaucracy just like his counterparts in the west.

Even people who had supported him during the green protests we're still convinced he had ultimate power or something, and so could release the hikers by sending a memo to the prison and was just choosing not to do it. So it raises the question, during the green protests, were people seriously taking the side of a regime they mistakenly believed was an actual military dictatorship? :lol:

[Raúl Duke]

Ahmadinejad doesn't have as much power as people in the sometimes West assume, at times he's but a mere civilian/secular political figurehead (thus why he's the one usually on TV) while other factions hold key points of power (Revolutionary Guards, Ayatollah and the Mullahs, etc).

I myself, as some others have hinted, sincerely hope no leftist on here has reached a political opinion on Iran without knowing about the relatively unique political system they have and where Ahmadinejad figures in on this. Because that would be ignorant and mistaken.

In sum, if you support the regime in Iran you're basically supporting an Islamic Republic predominately run by reactionary clergy (not Ahmadinejad, he's not much of a dictator).

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Of course, we should not forget that Ahmadinejad himself does have seriously problematic and reactionary ideological positions like holocaust denial. That and his term in office has seen a great deal of privatization too.

[Agathor]

when does HE free the victims of HIS regime? 1988 executions? Ahmadinejad didn't even become president until 2005! In fact, he didn't even get involved in politics until the 90s! Blaming Ahmadinejad for those executions & imprisonments reflects ignorance on your part (no offence) of the Iranian history that you yourself brought up.


Would you mind If I blamed him for the execution and torture of gays, adulterers and protesters?

[KiwiSheep]

when does HE free the victims of HIS regime? 1988 executions? Ahmadinejad didn't even become president until 2005! In fact, he didn't even get involved in politics until the 90s! Blaming Ahmadinejad for those executions & imprisonments reflects ignorance on your part (no offence) of the Iranian history that you yourself brought up.

Furthermore, Ahmadinejad is one man in a political system where he is merely an elected official, not a dictator. We're not talking about a dictator like Saddam here, we're talking about an elected official who has very limited power.

I'm no supporter of Ahmadinejad or the Iranian government but the things you're attributing to Ahmadinejad here are just absurd. Ahmadinejad had nothing to do with anything the Iranian government did in 1988 or even that entire decade.He first took political office as unelected governor to both Maku and Khoy in West Azarbaijan Province during the 1980s.[10]
^ He got into politics during the 1980s, and he was a member of the Basij. I am referring to the recent protests in Iran, the Basji was involved in the Iraq-Iran war so they may well have been involved in the executions (so I wouldn't say he was involved or he wasn't).

[barbelo]

Wow, a guy make a scatological speech about how the awaited messiah will clean the earth of an evil and devil consorting minority (them jews!), and Revleft is seriously discussing about him?

[cynicles]

Wow, a guy make a scatological speech about how the awaited messiah will clean the earth of an evil and devil consorting minority (them jews!), and Revleft is seriously discussing about him?
Yeah we couldn't help ourselves, we're transfixed on Mahmoud's theories on the theological relation between satanic cults and judaism, that's why we haven't been able to shutup about it this entire thread.

[Comrades Unite!]

Wow, a guy make a scatological speech about how the awaited messiah will clean the earth of an evil and devil consorting minority (them jews!), and Revleft is seriously discussing about him?


We also discuss Porn.

[Yazman]

Would you mind If I blamed him for the execution and torture of gays, adulterers and protesters?

If they happened under his presidency and he was capable of preventing it, then no, I wouldn't mind at all. I was merely disagreeing with the attribution of crimes to him that he wasn't responsible for.


He first took political office as unelected governor to both Maku and Khoy in West Azarbaijan Province during the 1980s.[10]
^ He got into politics during the 1980s, and he was a member of the Basij. I am referring to the recent protests in Iran, the Basji was involved in the Iraq-Iran war so they may well have been involved in the executions (so I wouldn't say he was involved or he wasn't).

I can't seem to find a source for that on the wikipedia article you cited from that actually mentions him being governor of those cities, since their citation doesn't talk about that at all. For now though let's not worry about that though. I knew he was governor of a province in the 90s, didn't know he was a mayor in the 80s as well. When, however, is important, and I cannot find a source that states what year these appointments occurred, which is odd. If I was wrong I was wrong though, but I still wish I could find a citation that showed the years of the appointments.

Let's also consider - he was a mayor/governor of two cities at some point in the 80s, then he governed a state from 1993-1997 - after which he held no political positions until 2003, when he became mayor of Tehran, finally becoming president in 2005. In the grand scheme of things, the highest position he held at any point was the governor of an entire province in the early 90s.

I'm still unsure as to what extent a governor of Maku or Khoy had any power over what happened in the country - consider that Maku & Khoy are cities, which means that he governed two sizable cities, but realistically that isn't much power at all and mayors don't have any say in national or state-wide things like criminal law (so to blame him for executions et al is silly).

Blaming Ahmadinejad for what happened in 1988 would be like blaming the mayor of Tampa (Florida, USA) for the Guantanamo Bay concentration camp.

[Leo]

Wow, a guy make a scatological speech about how the awaited messiah will clean the earth of an evil and devil consorting minority (them jews!), and Revleft is seriously discussing about him?

We also discuss Porn.

Was this one-liner really necessary?

[Rafiq]

Ahmadinejad was one of the most prominant anti communists during the Iranian counterrevolution. He said that "before we piss off tye americans, lets deal with those godless Marxists who wanna take away my godgiven right to own shit."

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[Rafiq]

enough about this prick. He's a crypto-Fascist (yup, I said it). He's a holocaust denier, hates commies, hates socialism, but doesn't like capitalism either ("wild west capitalism").

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[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

enough about this prick. He's a crypto-Fascist (yup, I said it). He's a holocaust denier, hates commies, hates socialism, but doesn't like capitalism either ("wild west capitalism").

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But of course his rhetorical anti- capitalism is nothing but populist demagoguery.

[Yazman]

enough about this prick. He's a crypto-Fascist (yup, I said it). He's a holocaust denier, hates commies, hates socialism, but doesn't like capitalism either ("wild west capitalism").

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I don't think anybody here actually supports him, I was mainly just arguing against the attribution of crimes to him that he wasn't responsible for. Just because I don't like somebody/thing it doesn't mean I'm going to agree with any old bullshit said about them.

[cynicles]

enough about this prick. He's a crypto-Fascist (yup, I said it). He's a holocaust denier, hates commies, hates socialism, but doesn't like capitalism either ("wild west capitalism").

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Capitalism with Iranian sectarian shiite values instead then?