Birth Control Rape

[High School Marxist]

Since everyone here is all anti-rape culture, and we all seem to agree that a male penetrating a female without a condom after telling her he had a condom was rape....

Would it not be rape if a woman told a man she was on the pill, but in fact wasn't and they engaged in intercourse? Wouldn't saying anything other than "Yes, it's rape" be extremely sexist against men?

[Questionable]

Well, technically speaking rape is sex that is forced upon one person by the other, so I wouldn't really consider this rape, just sex that you regret afterwards. That's not to say any woman doing this should be defended however.

[High School Marxist]

Many in the thread about the Wikileaks man (Julian Assange? Something like that?) Said men lying about birth control and then penetrating women was rape, so this should be the same. Also, what if a man would've been unwilling if he had known no birth control methods were being used? Would this not classify as rape then?

[CryingWolf]

Many in the thread about the Wikileaks man (Julian Assange? Something like that?) Said men lying about birth control and then penetrating women was rape, so this should be the same. Also, what if a man would've been unwilling if he had known no birth control methods were being used? Would this not classify as rape then?

I think you're right, it would classify as rape.

[Rugged Collectivist]

Also, what if a man would've been unwilling if he had known no birth control methods were being used? Would this not classify as rape then?

Yes.

[Ostrinski]

It's certainly criminal but whether or not it is rape is hard to say.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Well, technically speaking rape is sex that is forced upon one person by the other, so I wouldn't really consider this rape, just sex that you regret afterwards. That's not to say any woman doing this should be defended however.

If there is not informed consent, it is rape.
What OP is talking about is rape.

[Questionable]

If there is not informed consent, it is rape.
What OP is talking about is rape.

Very well, but I still feel like it's a very loose definition of rape. It's still despicable nonetheless.

[The Douche]

Entrapping somebody into the responsibility of child rearing is despicable, but I dunno if the suggested scenario constitues "rape", per se. But either way, it is wrong in my opinion.

[Mao_O]

Going the same definition, it is rape but you would have a hell of a hard time proving it. Women can and do get pregnant while on birth control pills. So she could just say she was taking it but conceived anyway.

[mew]

sigh

[#FF0000]

Well, technically speaking rape is sex that is forced upon one person by the other

no it's sex without consent. 'force' isn't necessarily part of it

[Igor]

Well, technically speaking rape is sex that is forced upon one person by the other, so I wouldn't really consider this rape, just sex that you regret afterwards.

sex you regret afterwards because you've agreed to it under false premises and probably wouldn't have it unless you had been lied to

jesus people rape is non-consensual sex, not "forced" sex. lying about your pill is rape ok

[Questionable]

sex you regret afterwards because you've agreed to it under false premises and probably wouldn't have it unless you had been lied to

jesus people rape is non-consensual sex, not "forced" sex. lying about your pill is rape ok

Do you think I condone this at all? Discussing the semantics of rape is different than supporting something morally reprehensible. I didn't say it was less worse than rape.

[International_Solidarity]

Would it not be rape if a woman told a man she was on the pill, but in fact wasn't and they engaged in intercourse?

Yeah, that is rape. It lacks informed consent.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think this is a pretty abstract question about definitions of something that doen't really play much of a role socially: that is deception-fatherhood, not rape as in cooerced or pressured sex.
Entrapping somebody into the responsibility of child rearing is despicable, but I dunno if the suggested scenario constitues "rape", per se. But either way, it is wrong in my opinion.


It's certainly criminal but whether or not it is rape is hard to say.

^I agree with the above. It would certaintly be wrong and I guess criminal - assuming the woman did this to decieve the man and then demand that he support the child. The difference though beteen a man deciving a woman and a woman decieving a man in this example though is that a woman would have to have or abort the baby either way whereas there isn't necissarily any real responcibility placed on the man.

I'm pretty sure legally, if any unmarried man objected to raising a child under these circumstances, as long as he filed a case before the birth, that legally the courts would side with him. The opposite gender situation would be true too but I doubt it would come to that unless the woman believed that the man had agreed to raise the child - which would then beg the question of why the deception by the man in the first place.

So in general I don't think this is a big issue and I dounbt it really happens enough to care about - at least not as clearly as in the OP example. It may be the case where women do this with more permanent partners who don't want kids, hoping that once the pregancy is fact, that the man will change his mind about wanting to have a kid. So really it's more "deception" than rape in my view since no sex or pregancy were "forced" - more like the responcibility might be said to be unwantedly forced on someone. But then in that case, would it be rape for a woman to adopt without the man's knowledge?

[Urbandale]

Its funny how every time anyone is talking about rape, it always comes back to 'how does this hurt men'? Talking about forced parantage in a discussion about rape isn't just disingenuous, its a disgusting and obvious attempt to divert attention from things that happen way more often.

[High School Marxist]

Its funny how every time anyone is talking about rape, it always comes back to 'how does this hurt men'? Talking about forced parantage in a discussion about rape isn't just disingenuous, its a disgusting and obvious attempt to divert attention from things that happen way more often.

Wait, what? Are you honestly arguing that we should just IGNORE sexual crimes committed against men? No one is trying to put rape of women, which is obviously more abundant than rape of men, on the back burner. It's not like there is a trade off- we can examine how women rape men and how men rape women without either one of them losing their importance. I find it disgusting quite honestly that you would say that since this form of rape isn't an often occurrence we should just ignore it. Plus- I bet it's more often an occurrence than you think it is.

[#FF0000]

Wait, what? Are you honestly arguing that we should just IGNORE sexual crimes committed against men?

No. I think he's just pointing out that it's pretty interesting that whenever anyone talks about a thing that affects women particularly, someone has to jump up and say BUT WHAT ABOUT MEN?

I mean what we're talking about isn't a social problem. This isn't some widespread epidemic. Of course we can all sit here and say "welp, this hypothetical situation would be awful if it happened to someone", but...

[High School Marxist]

That's hardly what's been done. Also- it doesn't 'particularly' affect women. Sure women are the most at risk for rape, but saying it 'particularly' affects woman is to degrade the importance of sexual crimes committed against men. I find it interesting how no one ever really pays any attention to rape committed against men, and whenever someone brings it up they are disgusting and trying to divert attention away from the 'real' victims of rape.

[#FF0000]

That's hardly what's been done. Also- it doesn't 'particularly' affect women.

No, no. It does. Women are victims of rape far, far more than men are.


Sure women are the most at risk for rape, but saying it 'particularly' affects woman is to degrade the importance of sexual crimes committed against men.Pointing out that women are overwhelmingly the victims of sexual abuse doesn't downplay the importance of sexual abuse against men.


I find it interesting how no one ever really pays any attention to rape committed against menBut that's wrong. People do.


and whenever someone brings it up they are disgusting and trying to divert attention away from the 'real' victims of rape.Nowhere but in your imagination would someone say women and women alone are the 'real' victims of rape lol.

But hey you can definitely have a discussion about sexual abuse suffered by men. Just don't try to interject it in a discussion about sexual abuse suffered by women (not that you're doing that here, of course).

But yeah I think this is a tangent and we're getting off topic so.

[Leftsolidarity]

IIRC this has happened to at least one of my friends. The girl didn't get pregnate but lied about birth control.

Idk if it'd be called rape. I don't think it really matters what you call it. It's fucked up none-the-less.

[black magick hustla]

it happens a lot and its not rape. but i don't think having sex and lying that you have a condom is rape either. i don't think you will find many women saying the latter is rape either. both are pretty fucked up though. i don't know about this whole "lying" bullshit as "rape" because then that israeli case of an arab lying and saying he was jewish to have sex with a jewish woman is rape too and i don't remember any leftist woman saying that in that case because obviously its just racist bullshit

[The Douche]

it happens a lot and its not rape. but i don't think having sex and lying that you have a condom is rape either. i don't think you will find many women saying the latter is rape either. both are pretty fucked up though. i don't know about this whole "lying" bullshit as "rape" because then that israeli case of an arab lying and saying he was jewish to have sex with a jewish woman is rape too and i don't remember any leftist woman saying that in that case because obviously its just racist bullshit

If an individual gives consent under the pretext that birth control will be used, and then that birth control is not used, then you have violated consent. I think the case could be made that it is rape. But I dunno that I would be trying to make that case.

[Urbandale]

If you violate the thing that was consented to, its rape. Coming up with all these 'oh well is THIS rape?' scenarios does nothing in reality other than serve to further obscure the issue. Obviously well all realize there are grey areas, but I'd be willing to venture that they're less numerous then the misogynistic threads in Learning and Women's Struggle would have you believe.