Remember January 8th

[Fidel Castro]

This coming 8th January, spare a thought for the victory of the revolution in Cuba which occured on this date in 1959. For me it had to be Che's finest hour, without him it is hard to imagine the revolution would have been a success.

Geng.

[FistFullOfSteel]

right,I will spare a thought for the revolution :cuba:

[Rebbel of The Underground]

Thanks for reminding me, will spare a minute or two...

[BOZG]

I'll also spare a minute or two......an extra couple of hours thinking about what's gone wrong with Cuba and why it is not a socialist state.

[toastedmonkey]

I thought it was either January 1st or 3rd.

Batista fled on the first, and... well something else happened on the 3rd which i cant remember so i always think of the 1st as the day of the Cuban Revolution.

Oh what the hell, ill make the whole damn week a party!

[BOZG]

New Years Day was when the guerrillas arrived in Havana.


Oh what the hell, ill make the whole damn week a party!

Cuba is hardly a model of socialism.

[toastedmonkey]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2003, 05:02 PM

Oh what the hell, ill make the whole damn week a party!

Cuba is hardly a model of socialism.
Perhaps, perhaps not.
What i can say is that it works much better and is more appealing to me than the "democracy" i live in.

There are also other things happening that week, like New Years Day, and you know being a student, im always looking for a reason to get pissed. I have a period of rest that week, which means a period of drinking.

If i hadnt discovered the whole "che" thing, i would of had another excuse.

[DeadMan]

Wow, almost 45 years ago...alot has happened since then, and Cuba hasn't turned into the socialist paradise they had hoped. Still wouldn't mind living there.

DeadMan.

[BOZG]

Perhaps, perhaps not.
What i can say is that it works much better and is more appealing to me than the "democracy" i live in.

I'm not saying that there haven't been many advances that have made Cuba more appealing and more progressive than the "West" but it sickens me to see how so many people on this site almost hero-worship Che and Fidel and never criticize either or the form of state that Cuba is.

[toastedmonkey]

First i think it should be remember that this is a Che Guevara website, generally the people that come across will appreciate or idolise Che.
i reconise the faults of Guevara, but this does not lesen his stature in my mind, for what he achived, and how he devoted his entire life to the cause, stand above the faults.
Castro is a different matter, i hold him in a somewhat lower esteam.

Cuba has problems, very big problems, but these are not caused by the actions of Che and Fidel 45 years ago, nor are they the result of Fidel being any form of dictator, they are largely due to the embargos enforced by the U$ of A.

[BOZG]

As a revolutionary figure, I greatly respect Che and I have no dobut that he trully gave gave his life to the cause but politically he was Stalinist leaning and for this he must be greatly criticized and for playing a part in creating the bureaucracy that still exists in Cuba today.

Much of Cuba's problems are caused by the USA but many problems have been created by the Castroites themselves in their handling of the economy and by refusing to stop cosying up to imperialism and capitalism under the "Socialism in one country" theory much like Stalin and his role in preventing the forging of a worldwide revolution and establishing a situation of "peaceful co-existance" which was doomed to end in the fall of the Soviet Union.

[toastedmonkey]

Che often critizied the Peaceful Co-Existance thing that the USSR had going, and eventually so did Fidel.

How do you come to the conclusion that Cuba is cosying up to Imperialism?
They seem to be one of the few places left standing up to it.

[BOZG]

Introduction of the dollar into the Cuban economy, allowing the Pope and Jimmy Carter a platform in Cuba to engage in discussion, allowing the forging of joint ventures with MNCs in 1994, supporting the calls of El Salvadorian rebels to negotiate with the US backed junta, calling for the Sandinistas not to antagonise the Nicaraguan bourgeoisie by expropiating their property.

As for Che and Fidel rejecting "peaceful coexistance", the idea of "socialism in one country" is peaceful coexistance, albeit phrased differently and to a speech to the UN in 1964 Che called for peaceful coexistance between countries with different economic and social systems.

[toastedmonkey]

I think they are measures to keep Cuba free from the Yankees, their laws and policies, and general attitudes are socialist. This does not mean I am comfertable with them, but Cuba is serving as a lifeline to many at the momnet.

What Che said and what Che did were two very different things indeed.
That almost seems offical policy of Cuba, leading up to the revolution Castro signed a pact with his "arch-rival", to benifit his cause, he used it for what he needed but never fullfiled his part, and then went againest the pact.
It is not unknown that they sign short term pacts for long term benifits, and the same thing applied to what they said.

[BOZG]

Maybe they are to keep Cuba free from the US, but no matter what it's still cosying up to imperialism and we've seen the outcome of every such situation before and it's not good. The attitude to the Sandanistas and to the FLMN in El Salvador are hardly revolutionary socialist thoughts.

"What Che said and what Che did were two very different things indeed"
The same could be said about "[socialist attitudes, policies and laws]". Cuba is not a socialist society and never has been. There are huge differences between attitudes and policies and reality. I'm sure CPs worldwide think they have socialist attitudes but in reality, they're reformist bastards.

[toastedmonkey]

I have had to think hard about this one, i admit, not without distractions!

I think of the U$A as the Imperialist power, and if Cuba are keeping themselves free from it, then i would think it was standing against Imperialism.
Peaceful Coexistance exists in Cuba at the moment, for if they were to start any movement and cease this "peacful coxesistance", America will use this as "justification" for a war, which unless every single socialist offered their support, Cuba would surely lose.

It is much more democratic then any country that springs to mind, especially in the west.

Do you think Cuba has never held a socialist attitude on any matter?

[BOZG]

Do you think Cuba has never held a socialist attitude on any matter?

I think that after the trade embargo was established and Fidel began a campaign of nationalising MNCs and other sections of the economy, these were socialist attitudes and actions towards establishing a socialist economy but Fidel never went the whole way to carrying through the revolution. Socialism cannot exist in Cuba until there is a political revolution and workers' democracy is acheived.

[che's long lost daughter]

Also remember January 1...so while everyone of us are enjoying the food and the fireworks, let us remember our brothers, the Zapatistas who still are in a "war within a breath...it's land or death!!!!"

....everything can change on a new year's day....



Tierra

It was the father of my father’s father who
Cleared the woods, tilled the earth and planted
Crops in this land but the oppressors came and
By some decree of law, it was taken away deliberately
Leaving him just a tenant of his own land
A hundred years has passed—a hundred years of blood,
Sweat and tears poured unto this land making
The soil rich, making the crops healthy so that
During harvest time, my landlord’s pocket
Is filled with money and while his children
Never heard of hunger, my children sleep with
Empty stomachs and I, with my calloused hands,
Continue to till the soil, plant crops
And remain a tenant to my own land

[bluerev002]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2003, 01:21 PM
Wow, almost 45 years ago...alot has happened since then, and Cuba hasn't turned into the socialist paradise they had hoped. Still wouldn't mind living there.

DeadMan.
Of coures not, who said Socialism can come in a matter of a few years?


http://www.martinoticias.com/media/graphics/cuban%20flag.jpg

[BOZG]

bluerev002,

I do not think that DeadMan is saying that socialism will come about in a few years but that it's more of an attack on people who consider Cuba a socialist paradise, though socialism should be able to be acheived in a relatively short period of time ON AN INTERNATIONALIST BASIS, while communism will not come about in a few short years. And while Cuba continues on with the Stalinist policy of 'Socialism in one country', it will never become a socialist society.

[Comrade Zeke]

Long live the Cuban Revolution even though im a little late like 4 days off but I hope we can have a moment of sielence for Che even though he did not die this day he changed the lifes for 11 million people under Batista!! So I say long live the Cuban Revolution and lets Che be in are hearts and Souls and Cuba being the only country loyal to Communism. And may the glouries Fidel Castro leader of Cuba may have a long 20 more year rule. :lol:

[capone]

LONG LIVE LA REVOLUCION !!!!!!!!



CHE VIVE!!!!!!!!