Obama DNC

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Obama said that "We can help manufacturing companies double their exports and create a million new jobs. You have the choice." This is code for low wage national economy. It sounds just like more evidence for Jeff Faux's theory that "Where America's Elite is sending the middle class; The Servant Economy".

[Prometeo liberado]

This is code for low wage national economy.
No it's not. It's just a straight, to your face, lie. Clinton said basically the same thing to get re-elected. Only his number was 6 million new manufacturing jobs. Then he went on to sign NAFTA.
What did Marx say about history repeating itself?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Obama cannot commit to a low-wage national economy.

1. Capitalism is now financially-based, and is thus international. Obama knows he cannot move back towards the mercantilist-esque isolationism of the early 20th century. It wouldn't fit with the hawkish imperial worldview of modern day USA.

2. Even if he had the political ability to move to a low-wage national economy, it would fail as industry has largely been decimated in America, its traditional industries such as the motor industry simply would not be able to compete with India, Japan, etc., in terms of wages, automation on a vast level and flexibility in the labour market/working conditions.

[Prof. Oblivion]

it would fail as industry has largely been decimated in America

I don't really think this is true. The American industrial sector is simply extremely capital-intensive, so while industry employs a comparatively small number of workers, those workers have extremely high productive capacity.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I don't really think this is true. The American industrial sector is simply extremely capital-intensive, so while industry employs a comparatively small number of workers, those workers have extremely high productive capacity.

What is America's import/export situation like?

As far as I was aware, much of America is moving towards a 'post-industrial' future, no?

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

What is America's import/export situation like?

As far as I was aware, much of America is moving towards a 'post-industrial' future, no?

You are corected that the US is going to deindustrialise soon. Since industrial production crash in 2009 it still has not reached its pre crash levels. To hinder this, the american ruling class fancies slashing workers wages, destroying "the middle class". No one in the business press and at world conferences is talking about raising western workers wages, but pressing for raising consumption, wages, in China. That's what is generally being initiated now, Chinese workers' wages raised and US workers wages stagnated since decades; a hint among the many is how celebrated the GM auto-industry bail out was done: workers wages cut in half. Greece, Spain, and wherever else harsh wage cuts and labor reforma are being implemented are the dominant future model for western economists.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

But you have to understand that an economy without industrial priduction means you don't have an economy. So any talk of "post-industrial" economies is non-sensical.

[fug]

They put a photo of some Russian ships when some Navy veterans came. Lol.

http://anonym.to/?http://www.navytimes.com/mobile/news/2012/09/navy-russian-warships-displayed-dnc-veterans-tribute-091112

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

But you have to understand that an economy without industrial priduction means you don't have an economy. So any talk of "post-industrial" economies is non-sensical.

You fail to address imperialism. I'm not saying it's a 'viable' or stable alternative, but it surely does prolong the current mode of production for an un-defined period of time.

Look at the UK.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

You fail to address imperialism. I'm not saying it's a 'viable' or stable alternative, but it surely does prolong the current mode of production for an un-defined period of time.

Look at the UK.

What are you talking about? What does imperialism have to do with having a national economy in which the national population is employed?

To employ the national proletariat under capitalism, you need companies. Corporations need growth if they are to survive. The Realty, Insurance and Banking sector makes up 1/3 of the US national economy. Correct you are, a large part of the economy that though is not exempt from the functioning of the national economy. Let us look at these sectors:

The Realty sectors needs 1) customers who have employment/an income to buy houses. 2) It needs houses. To sell an increasing amount of houses the realty company needs construction companies to build houses, for which you need companies which produce concrete, wood, plaster, nails, and the like. The construction company relies on the production of material goods directly, the realty sector relies on the construction of houses.

The insurance company needs customers to screw over. These customers need a job an income to pay for the subsistence of the persons working in the insurance sector and keep the insurance companies growing/capital investing and further accumulating.

Banks need growing companies to invest into. If all of a sudden all companies were to go bankrupt, there is nothing to speculate upon because there is no economy.

The growth of material production is the central aspect to a minimal welfare of working people because the whole economy is centered around it. Service, what does a large part of the service sector do? It takes material goods and sells them to customers. The transportation sector, another large sector which transports material goods. Exports and imports account for a very small fraction of the whole national GDP. Germany has 100 Billion Euros exports a year with a yearly GDP of 3.4 Trillion euros. So the national economy is not "passe" or some strange thing like this.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/chart.png?s=ukipiyoy&d1=19720101&d2=20120731

UK Industrial quantitative production 1960-2010
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rsECFs8Ho8Q/TcEVbplgw9I/AAAAAAAAArI/YBlEZ_VoMJU/s1600/UK+IP+by+Party.jpg

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/fredgraph.png?&id=INDPRO&scale=Left&range=Max&cosd=1919-01-01&coed=2012-07-01&line_color=%230000ff&link_values=false&line_style=Solid&mark_type=NONE&mw=4&lw=1&ost=-99999&oet=99999&mma=0&fml=a&fq=Monthly&fam=avg&fgst=lin&transformation=lin&vintage_date=2012-09-09&revision_date=2012-09-09

[Prof. Oblivion]

What is America's import/export situation like?

Everyone knows the US has a trade deficit. What is not understood is why. The US's top import is, surprise surprise, crude oil. Why? Because the US is one of the largest refiners in the world. Crude is imported, refined, most is consumed domestically and whatever is not is exported.

Why is this? Because the US oil industry is set up this way. Importing crude to refine then selling domestically or exporting back out to the international markets is how they make their money. It's not necessarily due to any kind of government action.

That's just one example of how a trade deficit can work to sustain an industrial sector. Trade deficit does not equal deindustrialization.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Everyone knows the US has a trade deficit. What is not understood is why. The US's top import is, surprise surprise, crude oil. Why? Because the US is one of the largest refiners in the world. Crude is imported, refined, most is consumed domestically and whatever is not is exported.

Why is this? Because the US oil industry is set up this way. Importing crude to refine then selling domestically or exporting back out to the international markets is how they make their money. It's not necessarily due to any kind of government action.

That's just one example of how a trade deficit can work to sustain an industrial sector. Trade deficit does not equal deindustrialization.

Yes, the American trade deficit is imo not so serious because the majority of imported goods are not consumption goods, but means of production/capital goods (which can/will be used for workers to produce wealth for the capitalist who then can pay a portion of his profits to the imported good deficit). A trade deficit in this situation is not too serious.


Top US imports:
agricultural products 4.9%, industrial supplies 32.9% (crude oil 8.2%), capital goods 30.4% (computers, telecommunications equipment, motor vehicle parts, office machines, electric power machinery), consumer goods 31.8%

So the trade deficit of the industrial USA is different than a trade deficit of, say, the Congo. But is is and most likely will be a problem looking in the future for the USA and turn around the tables (from west to east) once US industry collapses in the next large crash.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=8745&d=1337913928

Harvard University Industrial production Prediction, decline in industrial output 2015 red arrow.
http://www.revleft.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=8836&d=1344491774