P.I.G books.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

There was a thread about this a while back, and I was wondering if anyone had any critiques or new thoughts on it.

If you don't know about the "Politically Incorrect Guides to-", they're basically right wing, capitalist, Islamaphoboic, pro hunting, anti socialist, etc. books that try to refute things like global warming, that the south wanted slavery, and they say that the crusade was in defense of Christianity.

Thoughts?

[rednordman]

You have to deal with bullshit like this living in the States?

[NGNM85]

I've flipped through several of these repulsive tomes at the bookstore. It's reallly part of a larger phenomenon that somebody (I forget whom.) was talking about on a current affairs show, several days ago, in a conversation about the plethora of pants-on-fire lies, and distortions in Paul Ryan's convention speech. There's basically this whole, booming, industry, now, of Right-wing media, and, now, Right-wing 'fact-check' organizations, and Right-wing 'history' books. It's like they're creating an entirely seperate universe, with it's own facts, it's own history, etc. This is really a complex phenomena, which has been spurred by the introduction of cable tv, and then the proliferation of the internet, building to a point, where, increasingly, Right-wing Americans are living in an entirely different reality.

[Comrade Samuel]

You have to deal with bullshit like this living in the States?

I always figured that's what everybody else in the world would say...

I've never heard of these in specific but it sounds like everything that's wrong in this country with a neat little bow on it.

[Will Scarlet]

You have to deal with bullshit like this living in the States?


I always figured that's what everybody else in the world would say...

I've never heard of these in specific but it sounds like everything that's wrong in this country with a neat little bow on it.
There's a LOT of shit like this in the UK, probably just as much as across the pond. I would give examples but it would do terrible things to my amazon customer profile to look them up.


I've flipped through several of these repulsive tomes at the bookstore. It's reallly part of a larger phenomenon that somebody (I forget whom.) was talking about on a current affairs show, several days ago, in a conversation about the plethora of pants-on-fire lies, and distortions in Paul Ryan's convention speech. There's basically this whole, booming, industry, now, of Right-wing media, and, now, Right-wing 'fact-check' organizations, and Right-wing 'history' books. It's like they're creating an entirely seperate universe, with it's own facts, it's own history, etc. This is really a complex phenomena, which has been spurred by the introduction of cable tv, and then the proliferation of the internet, building to a point, where, increasingly, Right-wing Americans are living in an entirely different reality.
Couldn't you say this about anyone? I mean I don't only read leftist books but I would rather read a materialst history book than an idealist one. They think they're right as much as we do though (though they're not, durr), they think they're reading the truth because it fits with their ideology (they're not though, stop it).

[rednordman]

There's a LOT of shit like this in the UK, probably just as much as across the pond. I would give examples but it would do terrible things to my amazon customer profile to look them up.


Couldn't you say this about anyone? I mean I don't only read leftist books but I would rather read a materialst history book than an idealist one. They think they're right as much as we do though (though they're not, durr), they think they're reading the truth because it fits with their ideology (they're not though, stop it).your actually correct, just it doent really pack so much power in the UK. It only ever would if the tories where very popular...:laugh:(the couldn't even form a majority government.

[Камо́ Зэд]

It's the same thing all fascists and fundamentalists do: try to drown out reality through sheer volume. Where the facts consistently and significantly conflict with their ideology, the facts must be wrong. There isn't any method of debate in the world that can cure that sheer level of dumb.

[x-punk]

I had never heard of these books before but i looked on amazon and up popped the PIG for socialism. You can use the look inside function and read the first few pages. The cover alone is bad enough and sets out the whole direction of what looks to be a torrid book.

[Rugged Collectivist]

God they're so out of touch. They published a book glorifying capitalism and chose this image for the cover.

http://i47.tinypic.com/abid0i.jpg

It's a goddamn monopoly man hoarding money.

[Камо́ Зэд]

god they're so out of touch. They published a book glorifying capitalism and chose this image for the cover.

http://i47.tinypic.com/abid0i.jpg

it's a goddamn monopoly man hoarding money.

Imagine how much money you'd make if you turned this cover into a poster and sold it to hipster Communists.

[Rugged Collectivist]

Imagine how much money you'd make if you turned this cover into a poster and sold it to hipster Communists.


YES! but if I start a business selling these, I'll become a capitalist and I won't be doing it ironically anymore.

[NGNM85]

The worst thing about tomes such as these, and similar works, such as Liberal Fascism, etc., is they're overwhelmingly corrosive effect on the public discourse, much in the same way as religion. If we can't agree that we share the same objective reality; then any kind of meeting of the minds is, essentially, impossible.

[Sam_b]

Thoughts?

Whats the problem with hunting?

[x-punk]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EslGF%2B%2BkL.jpg

I dont even know where to start with this. What is worrying is that so many people will read this and believe the garbage contained in it.

[CryingWolf]

I've flipped through several of these repulsive tomes at the bookstore. It's reallly part of a larger phenomenon that somebody (I forget whom.) was talking about on a current affairs show, several days ago, in a conversation about the plethora of pants-on-fire lies, and distortions in Paul Ryan's convention speech. There's basically this whole, booming, industry, now, of Right-wing media, and, now, Right-wing 'fact-check' organizations, and Right-wing 'history' books. It's like they're creating an entirely seperate universe, with it's own facts, it's own history, etc. This is really a complex phenomena, which has been spurred by the introduction of cable tv, and then the proliferation of the internet, building to a point, where, increasingly, Right-wing Americans are living in an entirely different reality.

This is more frightening than most horror movies I've seen. :ohmy:

[NGNM85]

Christ. Marx is even wearing an Obama button. I missed that.

[Ocean Seal]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EslGF%2B%2BkL.jpg

I dont even know where to start with this. What is worrying is that so many people will read this and believe the garbage contained in it.
So what they are basically saying is that the United States is ultra-nationalist, militarist, and even the United States the best of all countries is bound to fail?

[NGNM85]

Couldn't you say this about anyone? I mean I don't only read leftist books but I would rather read a materialst history book than an idealist one. They think they're right as much as we do though (though they're not, durr), they think they're reading the truth because it fits with their ideology (they're not though, stop it).

That's a double-edged sword. One could easily level the same criticism at you. The notion that all information should be accepted, or rejected solely, or, even, primarily, on the basis of an ideological purity test to be utterly poisonous, and counterproductive. If you do that; you're basically deciding that you don't really want to understand anything. The rational approach is to read everything critically, including Radical publications.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Anywhere I can read extracts? I want to confirm my suspicions that these books are filled cover to cover with fallacious and facile arguments, if not outright lies.

[l'Enfermé]

You Americans are crazy. I never even knew that stupid Socialist Sweden was ultra-nationalist and militarist! It's been almost 200 years since Sweden declared war on any other country, I guess because they're trying to fool everyone! But right-wing American loonies know better than that! No one fools these men.

Anyways regarding OP, the Crusades began in order to defend Christianity. The First Crusade was called by Pope Urban II after the Eastern Roman Emperor Alexios I Komnenos begged him for aid against the invading Seljuks. I bet the Greeks regretted ever asking the Catholics for help and starting this whole crusading thing when the French, Germans, and Venetians decided to sack Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade instead of fighting Saracens.

[x-punk]

Anywhere I can read extracts? I want to confirm my suspicions that these books are filled cover to cover with fallacious and facile arguments, if not outright lies.

If you go on amazon you can see the contents pages and read part of the first chapter.

[Камо́ Зэд]

I think I finally figured out the conservative strategy. It isn't to bombard the arena with an overwhelming volume of garbage that corrodes rational debate so that logic and reality are completely drowned out. They want to create books so obnoxious, so arrogantly wrong about literally every single thing back to front, that we leftists just snap and start burning these books, so they can make us look like Nazis or something.

Pretty sneaky, sis.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

If you go on amazon you can see the contents pages and read part of the first chapter.

Trouble is that I bet the really outrageous stuff is buried further into the book.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Whats the problem with hunting?

In general. I'm not saying you have to disagree with that one, but on most of their books.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Am I too late to do a 'fuck pigs!' joke? ;)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm not against hunting, but that doesn't mean that these kind of books can't make poor arguments for positions even I might agree with.

[x-punk]

Trouble is that I bet the really outrageous stuff is buried further into the book.

Google books has larger extracts for viewing:

PIG Socialism

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DDO2mhhFYVsC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=politically+incorrect+guide+socialism+download&source=bl&ots=HMTOFKDDCo&sig=u_2EHEG2f7MzfXWFAjq8__3PWsA&hl=en#v=onepage&q=politically%20incorrect%20guide%20socialism%20do wnload&f=false

PIG Capitalism

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=B8JNKpXyiP0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=politically+incorrect+guide+capitalism&source=bl&ots=5BzuUDoiJO&sig=fTrHY-jeUejJ4UmLTpGakOnlXoI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8OVOUM6sHeSk0QW4t4HoBA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=politically%20incorrect%20guide%20capitalism&f=false

[rednordman]

God they're so out of touch. They published a book glorifying capitalism and chose this image for the cover.

http://i47.tinypic.com/abid0i.jpg

It's a goddamn monopoly man hoarding money.Surely even Americans take stuff like this with a pinch of salt? How the hell was the GD not caused by capitalism!?:rolleyes:

[rednordman]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EslGF%2B%2BkL.jpg

I dont even know where to start with this. What is worrying is that so many people will read this and believe the garbage contained in it.Have any of them even been to Sweden? Why is it then a Global statistic that it most Scandinavian nations have the best standard of living in the world?:D

[Flying Purple People Eater]

What are the drugs that Mr. Williamson takes? I knew that American media has some ultra-rightist views, but this is absolutely RIDICULOUS!

I mean look at this crap. I know that sweden is in no way shape or form socialist, but.... but still..... well just LOOK AT THIS!


GOOD THING THEY HAVE FREE HEALTHCARE!

Sweden has the "sickest workforce in the world", reports swedish journalist Ulf Nilson. And monday is the "sickest day of the week." "Another way of describing svenksa sjukan (the Swedish disease) is to say that around one million Swedes of working age (of whom there are some 5 million) are not going to work today," he writes. "Or tomorrow, or the day after. In other words, some 20 percent. Every fifth (working age) Swede. In spite of everything being said, the disease does NOT strike old women....worse than any other group. To the contrary: according to the reports, the sickliest Swedes are young men, generally perceived to be among the healthiest specimens on earth."

"What which point, you might say 'Oops, there must be something fishy here.'"

And indeed there is.

"...Most of the young men, thousands of them every day, lie when they call in sick. The same goes for thousands of young women. And older people too. They call in sick, without being sick - and why? Because it has become a habit, and because - very important this! - given the idiotic tax system, you lose very little by not working."




MY EYES!

'Yo, taxes are ridiculously low so everyone's now chilling at the doctor's pretending to have coldsores while at the same time becoming extremely unhealthy!' :rolleyes:

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

It's books like this that make 'freedom of belief' or 'freedom of expression' seem like a bad move.

But seriously, fuck these authors and their twisted, indefensible positions. Fuck them in the face with a dagger of righteous truth....or something..I don't know, I'm tired and pissed off.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I bet that Ulf Nilson is a right-wing shithead. Look what I found (http://www.nordstjernan.com/news/viewpoints/1768/):


Ulf Nilson, not a dissident journalist but a reactionary Swede …

Ulf Nilson’s "What happened to Sweden?"
Ulf Nilson’s book is a shallow and glib denigration of his native Sweden, which country provided him the environment to grow up well fed, protected and subsidized so he could pursue his education to become a journalist. What he did with this largesse is travel to the USA, allegedly live here for twenty years or so and understand absolutely nothing of his couple of decades tourist visit here while he either knowingly or foolishly played into exactly what the American establishment desires of immigrants/visitors from liberal western European countries: have them trash those countries’ social welfare policies.

While I understand the temptation to become such a shill because of the fawning but insincere attention one might receive along with the access to publication and subsequent largesse one thus acquires, allowing one to believe they are a successful “dissident journalist” from another land, those journalists’ sense of relevancy is a self-indulgent illusion. One can imagine how the writing would differ would those of Mr. Nilsson’s ilk had done a “tour” or two in Vietnam or nowadays Iraq et al. as a “grunt runner” at nineteen or twenty years of age facing hard choices with no money to do much else. Then later find themselves receiving slipshod medical care should they be so lucky to have “V.A.” care for any wounds thereby received, promised an education but ending up unemployed. I don’t hear about many young Swedes being forced to face such choices.

I have seen the phenomena of the twenty- and thirty-something Swedes come to America and bask in the warm glow of relatively high wages and lower taxes allowing them to jump full grown, like Boticelli’s Birth of Venus, into the first stages of the American middle class allowed only by the cozy youthful education and training they received from that backward socialist disaster of Sweden. After a few years when they realize just what type of casino they are playing in, some of them find it not so fun when they are on the losing side.

In short, your [Nordstjernan] reporting and viewpoint is highly skewed.
Jack Knutson, Freemont, CA

It strikes me as being almost exactly like going to Richard Littlejohn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Littlejohn) all the way in Vero Beach, Florida for an objective assessment of the British socipolitical system.

[Jazzratt]

It strikes me as being almost exactly like going to Richard Littlejohn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Littlejohn) all the way in Vero Beach, Florida for an objective assessment of the British socipolitical system.
Is this similarity a one off or is there some kind of colony in the US full of bloviating dumbfucks that write mendacious "journalistic" pieces only barely acceptable for use as toilet paper?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Is this similarity a one off or is there some kind of colony in the US full of bloviating dumbfucks that write mendacious "journalistic" pieces only barely acceptable for use as toilet paper?

Well, I think Jack Knutson's letter that I quoted illustrates that it's not only the UK that suffers from privileged arsehole scumbags moving to the US to shit out their bullshit screeds against anything remotely resembling a social safety net.

Wealthy expats in reactionary fuckhead shocker, I'd say.

[Jason]

Well, these books definitely espouse a "PIG" philosophy. :D

However, some of the stuff they are saying is true. For instance, the American Revolution was a "capitalist" revolution rather than a socialist one. In the same manner, so was the French one.