Turns out Frank Turner is a Lolbertarian

[Sam_b]

HA! You couldn't make it up. Crap hardcore musician turned average 'anti-folk' musician 'actually has nothing in common with either scene' shocker.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2012/sep/04/frank-turner-right-wing?CMP=twt_gu


"To start with, most people don't seem to understand what the difference between left and right is. For example, the BNP are a hard left party. I consider myself a libertarian, I consider myself to be pretty right wing and I get shit for saying that out loud. I was thinking about it the other day, I was thinking about how, quite often, I do keep myself to myself on the subject because I can't be fucking bothered to have some guy look all shocked at me because I think socialism's retarded."


:lol:

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

BNP a hard left party? Interesting approach.

[Камо́ Зэд]

. . . the B.N.P. is a hard left party . . .

No wonder the man's encouraged to keep his mouth shut.

[Igor]

he's been this way for a long time though. Fuck him

[Sam_b]

ETON BOY

Get it up him

[bricolage]

this is old news.

[Sam_b]

Not particularly old news to the source which was printed today though, right?

[bricolage]

Not particularly old news to the source which was printed today though, right?
a source which is based on a three year old interview and some one year old quotes. dunno, seems like pretty shoddy journalism to me.

[Sam_b]

I guess you mustn't be a fan of most Marxist literature with one hundred year old quotes then.

[cynicles]

I don't know who this tool is but he sounds like an idiot.

[bricolage]

I guess you mustn't be a fan of most Marxist literature with one hundred year old quotes then.
marxist literature isn't journalism.

[Sam_b]

As the investigation and reporting of events, a lot of it is.

[bricolage]

As the investigation and reporting of events, a lot of it is.
ok, but the civil war in france didn't come out in 1874.

[ed miliband]

he's best mates with billy 'proud to be british' bragg.

[Will Scarlet]

I read this around the time it first came out, was a bit strange to see a minor fuss about it now.

I like Million Dead though. That might just be nostalgia.

[ed miliband]

awful, awful, awful (not enough awfuls in the world) bastard billy bragg on his bezzie mate frank:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/08/frank-turner-political-post-ideological-culture

except... frank is clearly nothing but an ideologue.

utter fucking mug. billy that is; frank is many things, inc. a shit musician and dickhead, billy's just a mug. a big fucking mug.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I don't really like this.

People will see this piece of shoddy journalism and assume that FT is some Thatcher-loving, right-wing libertarian dickhead. Anybody (well, a lot of people) can be portrayed that way with a few out of date, out of context quotes.

I love how the minute the word 'libertarian' comes into the equation, people on here will assume they know the guy inside out.

He's not some capitalist loving 'lolbertarian', he wrote a song once called 'Thatcher Fucked The Kids', he's not a dickhead, he doesn't force his beliefs on anyone.

Yeah, he's not one of us, but he's never sold out to the music industry like 99% of the other dickheads out there, he's averaged over 3 shows per week for the past 7 years and his music is pretty good. He's very well known as an approachable guy, a down-to-earth bloke. And to be honest, for all the people making him out to be some right-wing nutjob, the guy's had an album at 12th in the UK charts, he's sold out Wembley Arena and he's opened the Olympics - he could probably have made a few mil by now and chilled the fuck out, but he chooses to live on the road, making and performing live music, and his music is fucking good, and it's not about hating the poor or weird shit, it's almost entirely good, relateable stuff. How many of you have had a proper listen to him?

Billy Bragg is naive but not exactly the re-incarnation of the devil. His politics are generally bad, but again, he's made good contributions to spreading the anti-fash message from a left-perspective.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

For the record:

http://frank-turner.com/blog/2012/09/schmolitics/

Wonder how many other arena artists would actually bother replying, rather than getting an advisor or whatever to do it.

The man's not a dick, you guys lack respect.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

would expect nothing else from an eton prick

[Os Cangaceiros]

Didn't even know who Frank Turner is. Had to use the google machine to find out...

[cynicles]

I have even less respect for him after reading that reply, the air of pomo about it makes him seem like even more of an idiot politically.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I don't really like this.

People will see this piece of shoddy journalism and assume that FT is some Thatcher-loving, right-wing libertarian dickhead. Anybody (well, a lot of people) can be portrayed that way with a few out of date, out of context quotes.

I love how the minute the word 'libertarian' comes into the equation, people on here will assume they know the guy inside out.

He's not some capitalist loving 'lolbertarian', he wrote a song once called 'Thatcher Fucked The Kids', he's not a dickhead, he doesn't force his beliefs on anyone.

Yeah, he's not one of us, but he's never sold out to the music industry like 99% of the other dickheads out there, he's averaged over 3 shows per week for the past 7 years and his music is pretty good. He's very well known as an approachable guy, a down-to-earth bloke. And to be honest, for all the people making him out to be some right-wing nutjob, the guy's had an album at 12th in the UK charts, he's sold out Wembley Arena and he's opened the Olympics - he could probably have made a few mil by now and chilled the fuck out, but he chooses to live on the road, making and performing live music, and his music is fucking good, and it's not about hating the poor or weird shit, it's almost entirely good, relateable stuff. How many of you have had a proper listen to him?

Billy Bragg is naive but not exactly the re-incarnation of the devil. His politics are generally bad, but again, he's made good contributions to spreading the anti-fash message from a left-perspective.
You didn't explain that he isn't a capitalist loving libertarian. You just explained that you like Frank Turner.

'There’s been some pretty confused discussions about my politics in the last day or so. Here it is for the record. My politics are based on principles like democracy, individuality, equality of opportunity, distrust of power and, above all else, freedom, including economic freedom. They’re not the same as when I was 19, or indeed 23 – a few more years kicking around the world has made me adjust my views a little, although the basic principles remain the same. Once I would have called myself an anarchist. These days I suppose the word “libertarian” does pretty well for me, though I suspect it’s a little over-intellectual as a description. I just think the world works better when people are left alone to do what they want as much as possible.' From his website. Bold added.

Frank Turner is a prick and he's a right-winger to top it off. Stop trying to defend him on any other grounds than that you enjoy his music for some reason.

[ed miliband]

tbh, i quite like the way he's mugged off lots of leftists who thought he was some kind of left-wing radical despite being open about loving rand, his friendship with that libertarian party guy who said he wanted to drown a trade unionist, and so on, for years (since at least, '09 it seems). pretty jokes.

the whole 'he's a nice guy' thing; lots of private school guys are 'nice guys' who get on with everyone and seem as comfortable slumming it with a can of red stripe and a spliff as they do eating caviar and drinking bollinger. private school instills that sort of confidence, and turner certainly exudes it. the fact he loves playing gigs doesn't say anything about his politcs; that american anarcho-capitalist dude karl hess made a buck writing speeches for politicians and then spent the rest of his life living like an animal -- does that just show how down to earth he was? should we respect him more for it? the fact turner's chosen a certain lifestyle doesn't change the fact he identifies as a libertain and a capitalist (and he does both, check the yuppiepunk interview for eg).

and bragg's anti-fascism is nothing more than "vote labour or lib dems".

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

whenever i see a dickhead with an acoustic guitar acting angsty, i immediately compare them to woody guthrie.

frank turner is the 21st century marketed version, fresh out of eton whilst trying to appear down to earth and cool, even though he's been shat out of the very system which created the likes of david cameron. bollocks to him and everything he represents.

The saddest thing is that young, angsty teens might buy into his fake 'punk' credentials and think that he's the real deal.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Karl Hess was legitimately working class though, despite his political beliefs, he worked jobs like welding and being an assistant in a morgue.

And yeah, he did eventually live in a shack in the woods.

[Positivist]

Anyone who thinks the BNP is "hard left" probably should be ignored.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

whenever i see a dickhead with an acoustic guitar acting angsty, i immediately compare them to woody guthrie.

frank turner is the 21st century marketed version, fresh out of eton whilst trying to appear down to earth and cool, even though he's been shat out of the very system which created the likes of david cameron. bollocks to him and everything he represents.

The saddest thing is that young, angsty teens might buy into his fake 'punk' credentials and think that he's the real deal.

You're right, only guys with leather jackets and shit haircuts who spit on their audiences and have worse accents than Joe Strummer are 'the real deal'. Skinny white guys from Eton can't possibly embody DIY spirit.

He was at Eton on a scholarship, btw.

Not really sure how FT is 'marketed' in any way shape or form, in fact saying shit like that only proves your ignorance, he's the opposite of 'marketed' music as you could find.

I don't like his politics, but a lot of the ignorance, stereotyping and idiocy in this thread really proves his point about people and their viewpoints. Someone having bad politics doesn't make them a 'prick', it doesn't devalue their music necessarily and it doesn't mean they should come in for the type of internet abuse that is being dished out here.

You wouldn't meet him in a bar, find out he's not a leftist and start mugging him off for it, so don't do it here. Silly people. :rolleyes:

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

tbh, i quite like the way he's mugged off lots of leftists who thought he was some kind of left-wing radical despite being open about loving rand, his friendship with that libertarian party guy who said he wanted to drown a trade unionist, and so on, for years (since at least, '09 it seems). pretty jokes.

the whole 'he's a nice guy' thing; lots of private school guys are 'nice guys' who get on with everyone and seem as comfortable slumming it with a can of red stripe and a spliff as they do eating caviar and drinking bollinger. private school instills that sort of confidence, and turner certainly exudes it. the fact he loves playing gigs doesn't say anything about his politcs; that american anarcho-capitalist dude karl hess made a buck writing speeches for politicians and then spent the rest of his life living like an animal -- does that just show how down to earth he was? should we respect him more for it? the fact turner's chosen a certain lifestyle doesn't change the fact he identifies as a libertain and a capitalist (and he does both, check the yuppiepunk interview for eg).

and bragg's anti-fascism is nothing more than "vote labour or lib dems".

But none of his fans have any left-wing pretensions, of him. I've been to a few of his gigs and he attracts a mix of people, so I really don't think he's been 'fooling' anyone. Not being funny, but people do seem to see a guy with a guitar, a few tattoos and some attitude, and this musician is sort of meant to 'validate' themselves by not having opposite political beliefs to us. If FT was some dickhead social democrat who expressed some vague sympathy for the welfare state and the NHS, nobody would kick up such a fuss.

I normally like you mate, but if you'd actually seen anything of him like videos or anything, you'd see that he's not some 'toff', far from it.

End of the day, I don't care where he comes from, he makes good music, he's an honest, hard-working musician and he doesn't deserve this sort of abuse. Disagree with him on a political level - I do - but why get personal simply because of his politics?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

You're right, only guys with leather jackets and shit haircuts who spit on their audiences and have worse accents than Joe Strummer are 'the real deal'. Skinny white guys from Eton can't possibly embody DIY spirit.

He was at Eton on a scholarship, btw.

Not really sure how FT is 'marketed' in any way shape or form, in fact saying shit like that only proves your ignorance, he's the opposite of 'marketed' music as you could find.

I don't like his politics, but a lot of the ignorance, stereotyping and idiocy in this thread really proves his point about people and their viewpoints. Someone having bad politics doesn't make them a 'prick', it doesn't devalue their music necessarily and it doesn't mean they should come in for the type of internet abuse that is being dished out here.

You wouldn't meet him in a bar, find out he's not a leftist and start mugging him off for it, so don't do it here. Silly people. :rolleyes:
How do you know I wouldn't?

Stop letting your personal admiration of a musician get in the way of other people's reservations. Its pathetic.

Frank Turner is a right wing prick posing as a 'punk'. You can like him, but that is how he's understood. Get over it and stop taking it personally.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

How do you know I wouldn't?

Stop letting your personal admiration of a musician get in the way of other people's reservations. Its pathetic.

Frank Turner is a right wing prick posing as a 'punk'. You can like him, but that is how he's understood. Get over it and stop taking it personally.

I take it personally because it's embarassing to hear people in my movement be so disrespectful.

Having crap political views doesn't always = being a prick. It's not like the bloke's has ever moved towards advocating shit himself, and the glee with which this 'news' was treated is quite pathetic.

And tbh, if you did do that, i'd think you were a massive prick and would tell you so. Regardless of political views, there's such a thing called decency; you don't abuse someone who has done nothing but hold a belief. I imagine you'd be pretty pissed off if some right-winger abused you just for being a Socialist.

[officer nugz]

Frank Turner is a right wing prick posing as a 'punk'. You can like him, but that is how he's understood. Get over it and stop taking it personally.he is not really posing as a punk. and punk definitely is not necessarily left wing.

[Will Scarlet]

You're right, only guys with leather jackets and shit haircuts who spit on their audiences and have worse accents than Joe Strummer are 'the real deal'. Skinny white guys from Eton can't possibly embody DIY spirit.

He was at Eton on a scholarship, btw.
Good for him, but he probably didn't need it with an old Etonian investment banker for a father, and it's probably a lot easier to 'embody DIY spirit' when you've got that to fall back on. He's hardly fucking Fugazi or something, really.

If you're going to complain about people making him out to be something he's not probably best not to do the same yourself.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Good for him, but he probably didn't need it with an old Etonian investment banker for a father, and it's probably a lot easier to 'embody DIY spirit' when you've got that to fall back on. He's hardly fucking Fugazi or something, really.

If you're going to complain about people making him out to be something he's not probably best not to do the same yourself.

He's been estranged from his investment banker father for most of his life, as far as I know.

I'm not defending him as a saint, i've not said anything about him that he's not. I have no illusions about his shitty political views, i'm merely defending him because he's actually rarely put his political beliefs across without being pushed, and the times he has he's talked about stuff like atheism, the 1381 peasant's revolt and telling the state to fuck off, all things I don't have a problem with.

It'd obviously be a different story if his songs had an overtly right-libertarian bent, but they don't, so he doesn't really deserve this treatment.

I really fucking hate cowards who are intent to mouth off about someone online merely because they're behind a computer screen. It's pathetic and unwarranted.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Is Frank Turner the dude from Million Dead?

[NewLeft]

frank turner who?

hard left because the left or right scale just means how damn big the government is!!

[kurr]

Random white musician is a reactionary and politically oblivious...surprised?

[Ravachol]

I kinda like his music (the indie-folk after million dead, MD is ok but not really my kind of HxC). As for his politics, well most 'leftist' bands generally have awful politics with all kinds of borderline-liberal or stupid anti-impie 'up the national bourgeoisie!' shit.

I mean, I enjoy Sol Invictus and Death in June and their politics about as diametrically opposed to mine as you can get.

[ed miliband]

I kinda like his music (the indie-folk after million dead, MD is ok but not really my kind of HxC). As for his politics, well most 'leftist' bands generally have awful politics with all kinds of borderline-liberal or stupid anti-impie 'up the national bourgeoisie!' shit.

I mean, I enjoy Sol Invictus and Death in June and their politics about as diametrically opposed to mine as you can get.

to be fair, that's a good point and kind of what i was hinting at when i said billy bragg is much worse than turner.

[kurr]

As for his politics, well most 'leftist' bands generally have awful politics with all kinds of borderline-liberal or stupid anti-impie 'up the national bourgeoisie!' shit.

like who?

Most political punk rock is politically naive anarchist bs.

[Ravachol]

like who?

Most political punk rock is politically naive anarchist bs.

What bands are you talking about? :confused:

[kurr]

What bands are you talking about? :confused:

Crass, Flux of Pink Indians, Discharge, Catharsis, Requiem, MDC, and so on. Just about every political punk rock band identifies with anarchism and I'm aware of some that don't.

[Sam_b]

He's not some capitalist loving 'lolbertarian', he wrote a song once called 'Thatcher Fucked The Kids', he's not a dickhead, he doesn't force his beliefs on anyone.

Isn't this akin to saying Morrissey hasn't got borderline-nationalist politics because he once wrote a song condemning racially motivated murder?

Edit: oh, and for the record Morrissey is one of my favourite artists ever. This doesn't mean I don't think his politics suck. The way you're going about this, to me, seems to say you find it difficult seperating the music you like and the person behind it.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Isn't this akin to saying Morrissey hasn't got borderline-nationalist politics because he once wrote a song condemning racially motivated murder?

Edit: oh, and for the record Morrissey is one of my favourite artists ever. This doesn't mean I don't think his politics suck. The way you're going about this, to me, seems to say you find it difficult seperating the music you like and the person behind it.

I've said many times his politics suck. But you need to have some sort of accuracy and context about criticising his beliefs - for being naive, especially for a bloke with a Master's in History and downright wrong - rather than just seeing one word and assuming that he's a dick, hates poor people etc.

That's more what I was trying to get at. Sorry if it came across otherwise. I was more pissed off at people hurling petty insults at the guy for his political beliefs, when he's actually a pretty respectful guy and so doesn't deserve that really.

[Sam_b]

rather than just seeing one word and assuming that he's a dick, hates poor people etc.


Not at all. In fact, nobody has really done this in this thread. What they're pointing to is this:


I consider myself to be pretty right wing


I do firmly believe that leftist politics lead to the misery of many, the crushing of the little guy and all that kind of thin


Delving into political philosophy here, but I get very frustrated with people who publicly have issues with private companies and then have no problem at all with the state funding stuff

I am afraid if you're going to position yourself as a politically conscious lyricist, you should be prepared to have to defend yourself against these sorts of things.When there is an article with a list of quotes, he's evidently not being attacked for just being a 'libertarian' at all.

As an activist I call out people on this sort of stuff all the time. The question is, do you?

[ed miliband]

Frank Turner To Release “Most Anti-Communist Album Ever” On Anniversary Of Chile Coup

Old Etonian and self-styled “rockjectivist” Frank Turner, who was labelled a “twerp” on the twitter machine by Labour MP Kerry McCarthy, is set to release a mini-album – “The Friends Of Frank Turner Group” – on September 11th, a date which coincides not only with New York’s tragic events of 9/11 but also with the 39th anniversary of the General Augusto Pinochet led 1973 coup in Chile which deposed Socialist Party President Salvador Allende, and ushered in a 17 year regime characterised by controversial neoliberal economic policies and the brutal persecution of leftists and dissidents.


Longstanding fans may be disappointed as there is no new material as such. The liner notes boast that it shall be “the most anti-communist album ever”, and the tracklist appears to consist entirely of crude deconstructions and parodies of left wing protest songs and minor punk classics. “I Dreamed I Saw Joe Hill Last Night” becomes “I Dreamed I Smashed Victor Jara’s Hands Last Night”, and “Kick Out The Tories” by The Newtown Neurotics becomes “Kick Out The Commies”, while Tom Robinson’s “Up Against The Wall” is eviscerated to make way for pointedly disrespectful references to the Thälmann Battalion, the 1907 Iquique and 1934 Asturias miner massacres, Victor Jara (again), the mid 1960s slaughter of 500,000 Indonesian communists, The Night Of The Pencils, Diana Aron, the disappearance of Dagmar Hagelin, the raiding of KPD HQ Karl-Liebknecht-Haus, Banda Corbari, Giacomo Matteotti and perhaps bizarrely, Joe Elliot, the singer in Def Leppard.


Turner is currently on tour in the USA and rumours that his September 11th Detroit show will be followed by a secret gig to mark the album launch are unfounded.


http://proletariandemocracy.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/frank-turner-to-release-most-anti-communist-album-ever-on-anniversary-of-chile-coup/

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Is Frank Turner the dude from Million Dead?

Yeah.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Disappointing, but I do love his music. Maybe I can heckle him at Riot Fest.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Crass, Flux of Pink Indians, Discharge, Catharsis, Requiem, MDC, and so on. Just about every political punk rock band identifies with anarchism and I'm aware of some that don't.

The list could go on...
If you dismiss music because it doesn't express exactly the same worldview as you, your opinions on music aren't terribly valid in my eyes.
There is so much good left anarchist music.
Also, there are a lot of good Marxist punk bands.

[Os Cangaceiros]

http://proletariandemocracy.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/frank-turner-to-release-most-anti-communist-album-ever-on-anniversary-of-chile-coup/

That excerpt made me laugh and cringe. Dear god.

Speaking of anarchist punk bands, weren't the members of Zounds anarchists? Zounds was good.

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/music2/zoundscurse.jpg

A good case could probably be made for Chumbawamba, too.

[Prometeo liberado]

I don't know who this tool is but he sounds like an idiot.
Who? bricolage or Sam b?

Anyways, I like how dip shit attempts to start out by laying waste to the general publics I.Q.:

To start with, most people don't seem to understand what the difference between left and right is

OK guy, you're right. We should all avoid interacting with you, lest the dumb rub off. Dip shit.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

I was listening to Smiling at Strangers on Trains when I saw this thead, if that gives anyone an idea of how much I'm big I am on FT. And I respect him as a musician, too, he's very good with his fans and generally a cool person from I've gotten.

This isn't news to me. His political views aren't really exceptionally reactionary more so than any liberal, and honestly how many musicians are actually revolutionary socialists? And he's not terrible politically for a libertarian, he has an entire song against Margaret Thatcher.

Can we just enjoy the fucking music? You all act as if disagreeing with our politics is something to completely hate someone over. Chill.