Guardian editor looks to turn Green party into radical Syriza

[Die Neue Zeit]

Hopefully this will be another blow to the credibility of building so-called "left parties" that are based on the ever-sectional trade unions with little political potential themselves:

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2012/09/03/the-green-party-elects-new-leader-to-be-announced



By Ian Dunt

A former Guardian journalist has been elected leader of the Green party, as the organisation tries to replicate the performance of the far-left Syriza party in Greece.

Natalie Bennett was editor of the Guardian Weekly between 2007 and March 2012 and previously contributed to the Times and the Independent.

Speaking about her intentions as leader, the self-proclaimed feminist said she planned to use the eurozone crisis as an oppourtunity to boost the role of fringe parties in mainstream politics.

"Britain, Europe, and the world, are experiencing troubled economic, environmental and political times," she said.

"In Greece, a radical party, Syriza, has gone in less than a decade from being a tiny political voice to being the second-biggest party in parliament. We can expect large changes in the political landscape, large political opportunities, in the coming years.

"We need to raise our expectations to meet these challenges."

Bennet's election raises questions about the effectiveness of the Green party's sex equality rules, which insist on a gender divide between the deputy leadership and leadership roles as a way to boost the prominence of women in the party.

As soon as Bennett won, deputy leadership candidates Caroline Allen and Alexandra Phillips were dropped from the race in favour of their male colleagues, preventing the party from having an all-female leadership.

Other contenders for the top job included Peter Cranie, a social care lecturer; Romayne Phoenix, an art teacher, activist and local councillor; and Pippa Bartolotti, Green leader in Wales and businesswoman.

After two redistributions of votes under the party's PR system, Bennett won 1,757 votes to Cranie's 1,204.

The new leader will be expected to build on the Green's impressive momentum from recent years. Outgoing leader Caroline Lucas doubled membership and became the first of the party's members to become an MP when she won Brighton Pavilion.

The party also beat the Liberal Democrats to come third in the London mayoral election, under candidate Jenny Jones.

The party struggles nationally because its support is not locally concentrated in any particular region, making it difficult for it to win individual seats despite an impressive proportion of the national vote.

It will be looking to defend its wins in London and South-East while branching out into the north-west.

[ed miliband]

uh, not really.

i have no interest in green politics, and members of the green party itself don't seem to either (turn-out was 3,000 for a party with 12,000 members -- for a party that prides itself on internal democracy!), but from what i've heard bennett is very much on the 'realo', right-wing of the party. her mild social-democracy may appear 'radical' when compared to the other parties, but her strategy is to win over dissafected lib dem voters. there's even talk over her victory causing a bit of trouble between the old 'cnd-left' type green party members and the modernisers that she represents.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I hope that's just hearsay on your part.

[Clarion]

Hopefully this will be another blow to the credibility of building so-called "left parties" that are based on the ever-sectional trade unions with little political potential themselves

And add to the credibility of building so-called "left parties" that are based on bohemian, middle-class lifestyle politics?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I don't like this anti-trade unionism. Not because I have any love for trade unions as some 'revolutionary' organ, or for their pro-capitalist bureaucratic leaderships. But, especially in countries like the UK, Trade Unions are not only an historic, but a living embodiment of class struggle. Their action ebbs and flows with class struggle. When shit hits the fan, when workers are out of jobs, when the economy tanks, trade union members do tend to come out in their hundreds of thousands, even millions, to protest. Their protests achieve little and their tactics are piss poor, but this is an organisational criticism, rather than a class criticism. Trade Unions lack the ability, in their current form (top down, relatively undemocratic bureaucracies) to merge class consciousness and political consciousness. They are exclusively the domain of economism, and almost never pose genuinely revolutionary political demands.

However, contrast trade unions, for all their organisational and practical deficiencies, to this sort of green 'worker' model that we have being pushed here. It is Eurocommunism pure and simple. Identity politics. Green politics, feminism, environmentalism, Social Democracy. Pushed by the bohemian middle class who have the time and resources to push such issues. I question why it is that certain people have the ability to push such a move in a time where most of the genuine wider working class are on the defensive, struggling to get by.

I have no faith in these middle class hipsters who tend to tag along to 'trendy' movements. Not putting feminism, environmentalism or similar down, they are absolutely key issues to the workers' movement (especially feminism obvs), but they cannot be fought as single issue politics, they can only be successful as part of a wider Socialist movement.

There's simply no traction for turning an issue-based party rooted in the trendy middle class into a working class-based, Socialist (or even Socialistic) party.

[Die Neue Zeit]

And add to the credibility of building so-called "left parties" that are based on bohemian, middle-class lifestyle politics?

If you've actually read my posts on this subject, you'd know I'm far from advocating this shit.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I don't like this anti-trade unionism. Not because I have any love for trade unions as some 'revolutionary' organ, or for their pro-capitalist bureaucratic leaderships. But, especially in countries like the UK, Trade Unions are not only an historic, but a living embodiment of class struggle.

That's so off the mark, Boss. First, without "anti-trade unionism," there would have been no worker-class movement in Germany and, to a lesser extent, elsewhere in Continental Europe. Second, I point out again that genuine class struggle is political and not economic.


Their action ebbs and flows with class struggle. When shit hits the fan, when workers are out of jobs, when the economy tanks, trade union members do tend to come out in their hundreds of thousands, even millions, to protest. Their protests achieve little and their tactics are piss poor, but this is an organisational criticism, rather than a class criticism. Trade Unions lack the ability, in their current form (top down, relatively undemocratic bureaucracies) to merge class consciousness and political consciousness. They are exclusively the domain of economism, and almost never pose genuinely revolutionary political demands.

Again, you're so wrong here. That you said that class consciousness and political consciousness are separate things is so off the mark. Class consciousness proper is a subset of political consciousness, and that in turn exists independently of the awareness in mere labour disputes and other economic struggles here and there.

Without the likes of Lassalle's explicit "anti-trade unionism," there would have been no worker-based class struggles across Continental Europe.


However, contrast trade unions, for all their organisational and practical deficiencies, to this sort of green 'worker' model that we have being pushed here. It is Eurocommunism pure and simple. Identity politics. Green politics, feminism, environmentalism, Social Democracy. Pushed by the bohemian middle class who have the time and resources to push such issues. I question why it is that certain people have the ability to push such a move in a time where most of the genuine wider working class are on the defensive, struggling to get by.

I have no faith in these middle class hipsters who tend to tag along to 'trendy' movements. Not putting feminism, environmentalism or similar down, they are absolutely key issues to the workers' movement (especially feminism obvs), but they cannot be fought as single issue politics, they can only be successful as part of a wider Socialist movement.

There's simply no traction for turning an issue-based party rooted in the trendy middle class into a working class-based, Socialist (or even Socialistic) party.

I was making a political point. Certainly I was exaggerating re. the Green party per se. I was not exaggerating, however, about applying the tred-iunionizm-free SYRIZA model to the UK. The unions can hop in later, so long as their staff and money don't inhibit party activity (like they eventually did with the SPD).

P.S. - Re. exaggerating organizationally, the US Freelancers Union (http://www.revleft.com/vb/freelancers-union-better-t174770/index.html) discussed in the other thread is somewhere in between the UK Greens and SYRIZA.

[Crux]

That's so off the mark, Boss. First, without "anti-trade unionism," there would have been no worker-class movement in Germany and, to a lesser extent, elsewhere in Continental Europe. Second, I point out again that genuine class struggle is political and not economic.



Again, you're so wrong here. That you said that class consciousness and political consciousness are separate things is so off the mark. Class consciousness proper is a subset of political consciousness, and that in turn exists independently of the awareness in mere labour disputes and other economic struggles here and there.

Without the likes of Lassalle's explicit "anti-trade unionism," there would have been no worker-based class struggles across Continental Europe.



I was making a political point. Certainly I was exaggerating re. the Green party per se. I was not exaggerating, however, about applying the tred-iunionizm-free SYRIZA model to the UK. The unions can hop in later, so long as their staff and money don't inhibit party activity (like they eventually did with the SPD).

P.S. - Re. exaggerating organizationally, the US Freelancers Union (http://www.revleft.com/vb/freelancers-union-better-t174770/index.html) discussed in the other thread is somewhere in between the UK Greens and SYRIZA.
Where on earth did you get the impression that SYRIZA is anti-trade union? Uh they have trade union officials, and now many many more of course what with the monumental shift of support in the working class towards them.

[Hit The North]

The title of this thread made me laugh so hard, I followed through.


Hopefully this will be another blow to the credibility of building so-called "left parties" that are based on the ever-sectional trade unions with little political potential themselves:


Lol, there I go again!


Second, I point out again that genuine class struggle is political and not economic.


It's both, you numpty - and sometimes both at the same time.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Where on earth did you get the impression that SYRIZA is anti-trade union? Uh they have trade union officials, and now many many more of course what with the monumental shift of support in the working class towards them.

Read Lars Lih's book on WITBD. I used the Russian term tred-iunionizm for a reason (i.e., "trade-unions-only-ism").

My point is that SYRIZA's success and momentum has come in spite of official trade union organizations (individual trade unionists don't count).

[Crux]

Read Lars Lih's book on WITBD. I used the Russian term tred-iunionizm for a reason (i.e., "trade-unions-only-ism").

My point is that SYRIZA's success and momentum has come in spite of official trade union organizations (individual trade unionists don't count).
No.

You misunderstood, SYRIZA previously had positions in the trade union leadership and have seen a great many trade unionists defect to SYRIZA, including leading members. As usual your political understanding of what is actually happening in the real world is nil. But then again, the relevance of your "social-proletocracy" is also nil so it makes sense.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

That's so off the mark, Boss. First, without "anti-trade unionism," there would have been no worker-class movement in Germany and, to a lesser extent, elsewhere in Continental Europe. Second, I point out again that genuine class struggle is political and not economic.

To the emboldened: how do you have political struggle without economic struggle? It's impossible to build a mass movement in any other way than off the back of economic struggles. You might be an ideologue, but most workers don't have time to play politics. The only way the working class will become class conscious/politically conscious is by being involved in economic struggles based on a class movement. So far as I know, unions have been the least bad method hitherto of organising masses (I mean huge numbers) of people in society according to class, into a protest movement. Whilst trade unionism itself is a dead end, what i'm trying to say is that a class-based movement is needed to ignite the political struggle (via the economic struggle, a point you so spectacularly either fail or refuse to understand), not an issue-based movement. To this end, green-based parties are an absolute non-starter.




Again, you're so wrong here. That you said that class consciousness and political consciousness are separate things is so off the mark. Class consciousness proper is a subset of political consciousness, and that in turn exists independently of the awareness in mere labour disputes and other economic struggles here and there.

You can have class consciousness without political consciousness. Class consciousness is, in basic terms, where workers realise their membership of the working class, but this can be without political consciousness. Political consciousness is only achieved when the class conscious proletariat realises that in order to achieve its goals, it must assume a collectively-based political identity, rather than mere protesting, or economic struggles.


Without the likes of Lassalle's explicit "anti-trade unionism," there would have been no worker-based class struggles across Continental Europe.

Looking around Europe today, who brings out millions of members on general strikes? The trade unions or Syriza/Die Linke? And that not even saying the TUs are any good, they're not; they're pro-capitalist organisations at the top yet they still generally mobilise a greater number of people than any issue-based left-'populist' party.



I was making a political point. Certainly I was exaggerating re. the Green party per se. I was not exaggerating, however, about applying the tred-iunionizm-free SYRIZA model to the UK. The unions can hop in later, so long as their staff and money don't inhibit party activity (like they eventually did with the SPD).

Without the trade unions, how do you mobilise any great number of the proletariat? It's impossible. There have been left-of-labour parties, green parties, Social Democratic parties and all number of theoretical sects. The depressing fact, however, is that the trade unions and their political arm - the labour party - despite being virulently anti-Socialist, have held a hegemony on the working class vote, working class mobilisation and working class political activity in general for over a century.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

In any case, the Green Party are unashamedly petty-bourgeois pro-capitalists, Syriza a left-populist yet still capitalist party, why would we want something that is a mesh of the two? :confused:

[Die Neue Zeit]

No.

You misunderstood, SYRIZA previously had positions in the trade union leadership and have seen a great many trade unionists defect to SYRIZA, including leading members.

Individual trade unionists /= whole trade unions. You know, the likes that formally throw their votes to the UK Labour or the US Dems. :rolleyes:

Get your logic straight.

[Clarion]

It's not trade union organisations that vote for non-revolutionaries in the UK and US, its the proletariat who is voting for non-revolutionaries. The trade unions are merely a bureaucratic reflection of that.

[Crux]

Individual trade unionists /= whole trade unions. You know, the likes that formally throw their votes to the UK Labour or the US Dems. :rolleyes:

Get your logic straight.
I did say trade union officials did I not?

That's pretty rich coming from you, herr Lasalle sycophant.