The golden dawn threat

[REDSOX]

In a previous thread i posed the question How much can the greeks take? Well the following article suggests they cant take it but unfortunately the far right nazi party Golden Dawn is benefiting

http://www.thetrumpet.com/article/9815.4.0.0/economy/pogroms-in-greece-racist-violence-sweeps-the-nation

Sad Where is the left

[Positivist]

Is that source a religious site? The comments are divided between conservatism and quasi-fascism.

[Philosophos]

In a previous thread i posed the question How much can the greeks take? Well the following article suggests they cant take it but unfortunately the far right nazi party Golden Dawn is benefiting

http://www.thetrumpet.com/article/9815.4.0.0/economy/pogroms-in-greece-racist-violence-sweeps-the-nation

Sad Where is the left


Sad where is the left? They are here BUT they don't put any new people in their parties so people will at least have the illusion of havening someone new in the politics.

At the same time Kasidiaris (Golden Dawn member in the parliament which also beat the crap out of Kaneli KKE's member) says that he doesn't want to keep his immunity as a member of the parliament (yes we have this amazing thing in Greece where the potilitians that are in the parliement can do whatever they want). These are some of the tricks that GD is using so it can take more people with it (such as protecting people and neighborhoods from immigrants).

Where is the answer of the left to all this? Why don't they cancel their immunity? They're only talking about it and they say "if become a goverment we will erase this law". BULLSHIT why don't they do it now like Kasidiaris?

I just can't stand hypocrites from both wings!!!

For any questions of how this "wonderful" immunity law works I'm happy to answer.

[Delenda Carthago]

Sad Where is the left
What are you talkin about? SYRIZA got 27%. Isnt that the Left?:drool:

[REDSOX]

What are you talkin about? SYRIZA got 27%. Isnt that the Left?:drool:

No you miss my point. What are the left wing doing on the ground? What practically are they doing to help people? The nazis are giving out food to hungry people on the streets for example(albeit indigenous greeks) why dont syriza do something similar but for all people? Why dont the trade unions do more than they have been doing, 48 strikes wont cut it i am afraid. Where are the youth of greece? i seem to remember a few years ago they were on the streets in their thousands when a teenager was killed by the cops The bourgeoisie is scapegoated refugees and immigrants and the golden dawn is emboldened by this. What are the left doing practically to help people on the ground and explain that immigrants are not the problem but the fucking system. The situation is desperate for heavens sake, just getting some people into parliament wont solve these problems the greek working and middle classes have.

Where is the movement between trade unions and immigrant groups
What the hell are the youth of greece doing
Where is the house foreclosure movement
Where is the organisation between syriza the unions the youth the immigrants etc

I suppose everyone waiting for the mesiah i suppose not that that will save them

[helot]

Is that source a religious site? The comments are divided between conservatism and quasi-fascism.

from the 'about us' page


The Trumpet magazine, which began in February 1990, is published 10 times a year by the Philadelphia Church of God.

[Strider]

well the situation in greece as far as the anti-fascist action of the left is kind of like this: SYRIZA is almost doing nothing. Unfortunately they are underestimating the importance of constant presence in the streets and of offering practical solutions to the everyday problems of the people. KKE has almost no anti-fascist action and they want to do nothing with other left-wing groups as they consider them to be opportunists, reformists or even servants of the bourgeois!!!! The only part of the left with constant antifascist action is ANTARSYA but they have no power and are actually on their own. On the other hand, it is worth mentioning that the anarchists tend to overlook reaching out to the society, to have anti-social behaviour and also to reproduce hate and violence too much. This last thing supports the "two extremes" theory reproduced by the media.

[REDSOX]

well the situation in greece as far as the anti-fascist action of the left is kind of like this: SYRIZA is almost doing nothing. Unfortunately they are underestimating the importance of constant presence in the streets and of offering practical solutions to the everyday problems of the people. KKE has almost no anti-fascist action and they want to do nothing with other left-wing groups as they consider them to be opportunists, reformists or even servants of the bourgeois!!!! The only part of the left with constant antifascist action is ANTARSYA but they have no power and are actually on their own. On the other hand, it is worth mentioning that the anarchists tend to overlook reaching out to the society, to have anti-social behaviour and also to reproduce hate and violence too much. This last thing supports the "two extremes" theory reproduced by the media.

How sad... sad

[The Jay]

well the situation in greece as far as the anti-fascist action of the left is kind of like this: SYRIZA is almost doing nothing. Unfortunately they are underestimating the importance of constant presence in the streets and of offering practical solutions to the everyday problems of the people. KKE has almost no anti-fascist action and they want to do nothing with other left-wing groups as they consider them to be opportunists, reformists or even servants of the bourgeois!!!! The only part of the left with constant antifascist action is ANTARSYA but they have no power and are actually on their own. On the other hand, it is worth mentioning that the anarchists tend to overlook reaching out to the society, to have anti-social behaviour and also to reproduce hate and violence too much. This last thing supports the "two extremes" theory reproduced by the media.

Aren't Food Not Bombs, Books for Bars, and the like all anarchist organizations? If that isn't outreach then I don't know what is. The problem there is why they aren't trying to build alternative politics alongside those alternative institutions.

[Sasha]

Dont forget the "we won't pay" movement, they reconect closed off electricity, sabotage toll boots etc. They are unmistakenly a dominantly leftist movement...
http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/31/greece-debt-crisis-anti-austerity?cat=world&type=article

[Rottenfruit]

Golden Dawn is blown way out of propotion, they got what 7%?
and people are acting like its return of third reich or something

[REDSOX]

Golden Dawn is blown way out of propotion, they got what 7%?
and people are acting like its return of third reich or something

Tell that to the immigrants who are being attacked every night and day by these nazis. The golden dawn are gaining strength and what do most of the left do? They stand pat with their petit arguments and squabbles. The golden dawn have been putting up flyers in athens saying that when they have dealt with the immigrants they will deal with the gays. Thats not blowing anything out of proportion comrade. Who will defend the immigrants and the gays, the police? hardly, considering that a fair number of them are fascists and voted for golden dawn as well as conducting terror raids to deport immigrants

[Rottenfruit]

Tell that to the immigrants who are being attacked every night and day by these nazis. The golden dawn are gaining strength and what do most of the left do? They stand pat with their petit arguments and squabbles. The golden dawn have been putting up flyers in athens saying that when they have dealt with the immigrants they will deal with the gays. Thats not blowing anything out of proportion comrade. Who will defend the immigrants and the gays, the police? hardly, considering that a fair number of them are fascists and voted for golden dawn as well as conducting terror raids to deport immigrants

How can a party with 7% of the votes have such power in the streets?

[James Connolly]

I was hoping a rise of Golden Dawn would agitate the Left, but the Fascists seem more active than Leftist parties...

Although the KKE is playing it well, as an attempted Revolution will just cause NATO to butcher Greeks, along with alienating the party from the population in the future.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

I was hoping a rise of Golden Dawn would agitate the Left, but the Fascists seem more active than Leftist parties...

Although the KKE is playing it well, as an attempted Revolution will just cause NATO to butcher Greeks, along with alienating the party from the population in the future.

Yes, but KKE is a self proclaimed non-revolutionary party, so they would not even have any means to have an attempted revolution...

[Os Cangaceiros]

lol NATO would not "butcher the Greeks". Greece is a small country with a small population and the main (legal) economic engine there seems to be tourism. A revolutionary Greece would just be cut out of the EU and left to rot.

[James Connolly]

lol NATO would not "butcher the Greeks". Greece is a small country with a small population and the main (legal) economic engine there seems to be tourism. A revolutionary Greece would just be cut out of the EU and left to rot.
Remember the attempted Albanian rebellion in 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_rebellion_in_Albania), which was crushed by NATO?

[fug]

There's no reason to close one's eyes before the RD danger. The fact that they got 7% of votes is worrying enough, but even more worrying is that their propaganda seems to be working and more and more Greeks are getting drawn into this neo-Nazism which goes as far as open attacks against migrants on the streets, as previously noted.

[Igor]

How can a party with 7% of the votes have such power in the streets?

How many social democrat street fighters do you exactly know? Indeed. Nazis ruled the streets long before they ruled Reichstag, violence and terror don't need majority approval to be effective.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Remember the attempted Albanian rebellion in 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_rebellion_in_Albania), which was crushed by NATO?

hmm, perhaps that's a good point, actually.

[Delenda Carthago]

Yes, but KKE is a self proclaimed non-revolutionary party, so they would not even have any means to have an attempted revolution...

Oh boy...

[robbo203]

In a previous thread i posed the question How much can the greeks take? Well the following article suggests they cant take it but unfortunately the far right nazi party Golden Dawn is benefiting

http://www.thetrumpet.com/article/9815.4.0.0/economy/pogroms-in-greece-racist-violence-sweeps-the-nation

Sad Where is the left


This is an object lesson for those who still imagine that somehow magically revolutionary consciousness is going to emerge out of some kind of severe economic crisis. There are numerous examples that point to quite the opposite and strongly suggest the need to abandon such mechanistic/deterministic thinking

[Conscript]

This is an object lesson for those who still imagine that somehow magically revolutionary consciousness is going to emerge out of some kind of severe economic crisis. There are numerous examples that point to quite the opposite and strongly suggest the need to abandon such mechanistic/deterministic thinking

As opposed to what? Preaching on the streets?

Material conditions will push people to socialism as class antagonisms worsen. I don't see whats wrong with that.

[Ostrinski]

As opposed to what? Preaching on the streets?

Material conditions will push people to socialism as class antagonisms worsen. I don't see whats wrong with that.No. They will not. Material conditions create the foundation necessary for socialist consciousness but they do not foster consciousness themselves. Stop trying to mystify "material conditions"

Edit: damn, i'm actually agreeing with robbo for once.

[Ostrinski]

Conscript's strategy: let the fascists win

[robbo203]

No. They will not. Material conditions create the foundation necessary for socialist consciousness but they do not foster consciousness themselves. Stop trying to mystify "material conditions"

Edit: damn, i'm actually agreeing with robbo for once.


Keep an open mind and you will find yourself agreeing with me a lot more often than you might think;)


But seriously. Im totally against all these false dichotomies fostered by some on the Left. Conscripts reference to "preaching on the street" has, as its subtext, the suggestion that its no use "spreading ideas", that what you wanna do is get out there and get involved in ACTION!!! As if "action" and "spreading ideas" are two totally different and opposed things. Ever heard of dialectics, comrade?

It always amuses that those who profess to be most vehemently opposed to the notion of "spreading ideas" - FFS, I thought that is what differentiated human beings from the animal world , its what makes us human beings amongst other things - are precisely those who will go to such lengths to explain - in minute detail and with considerable passion - their cherished idea that "spreading ideas" is a waste of time.

Perhaps Im being uncharitable but Revleft seems to me to be full of these puffed-up armchair activists who daily display their contempt for spreading ideas by engaging in a forum that is all about...er... exchanging ideas

[Sea]

As opposed to what? Preaching on the streets?

Material conditions will push people to socialism as class antagonisms worsen. I don't see whats wrong with that.I almost can't believe I'm saying this, but you might benefit from reading a little Lenin.


Perhaps Im being uncharitable but Revleft seems to me to be full of these puffed-up armchair activists who daily display their contempt for spreading ideas by engaging in a forum that is all about...er... exchanging ideasIsn't it glorious, comrade?

[fug]

Actually Conscript is right, because when class antagonisms are worsening we can expect to see the radicalization of all classes, both right and left wing of course.

[Rottenfruit]

This is an object lesson for those who still imagine that somehow magically revolutionary consciousness is going to emerge out of some kind of severe economic crisis. There are numerous examples that point to quite the opposite and strongly suggest the need to abandon such mechanistic/deterministic thinking
Huh? THe only people here who are against violent action/revolution are pacfisit liberals who in my view should go back to democraticunderground and start worpshipping Ghandi there

Read the threat on gun control you see alot of users here are against gun control expect a few liberals

[Rottenfruit]

How many social democrat street fighters do you exactly know? Indeed. Nazis ruled the streets long before they ruled Reichstag, violence and terror don't need majority approval to be effective.

The communists fought the nazis tooth and nail in the streets against the brownshirts by the way,

Social democrats are worthless, if the choice was between golden dawn and social democrats i would vote neither.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Material conditions alone will not lead to class consciousness but that does not mean that the commonly accepted form of left organization and consciousness raising becomes a legitimate tactic. The dichotomy of sitting on our hands waiting for economic collapse to do everything for us vs. forming glorified conspiratorial cells to go out and lead the class to consciousness is false as both are flawed from the start and have failed historically. Both camps will need to abandon preconceived notions and sacred totems, because it is lunacy to allow fascism to literally run wild in the street either through inaction or pursuit of tactics that failed to stop it the last time. I worry that the opportunity for that new revolutionary form has passed now for Greece, sacrificed on the altar of parliamentary trickery or kke stagnation.

[Igor]

The communists fought the nazis tooth and nail in the streets against the brownshirts by the way,

Social democrats are worthless, if the choice was between golden dawn and social democrats i would vote neither.

that was kinda my point. without actual anti-fascist activism it's easy for fascists to run rampant because liberals are completely useless in that regard.

[PhoenixAsh]

The communists fought the nazis tooth and nail in the streets against the brownshirts by the way,

Social democrats are worthless, if the choice was between golden dawn and social democrats i would vote neither.

Wait...I am sorry? The social democrats in Germany did not fight the Nazi's tooth and nail? Iron Front was a social democrat organisation and was one of the largest violent and active anti-fascist movements in Nazi Germany.

Unfortunately they were also anti-communist....but that does not lessen the fact that much of the current antifa movement is based on the social democratic anti fascist principles of the IF.

Currently a significant part of the active and violent antifa movement is made up of social democrat or liberal youths.

[Philosophos]

On the other hand, it is worth mentioning that the anarchists tend to overlook reaching out to the society, to have anti-social behaviour and also to reproduce hate and violence too much. This last thing supports the "two extremes" theory reproduced by the media.

Actually I've met some anarcists from my sisters university and I've seen that they are calmly protesting and they don't cause any damage to the public or private property. The media on the other hand tend to label every guy that breaks something an anarchist so the anarchists have been the same for all this time as chaos. I've once seen some MLs that were protesting with a sign of Marx,Engels,Lenin and I can't recall it might be Stalin too and the paper was writing: "Anarchists protest and cause huge damage to shops" even though the ones causing the damage were outers not the MLs...

Anyway the media are doing a great propaganda about everyone that is not in the capitalists' system.

[officer nugz]

How can a party with 7% of the votes have such power in the streets?organization, dedication, intimidation, etc. combined with the golden dawns very strong connections to the Greek police.

[Zukunftsmusik]

Actually Conscript is right, because when class antagonisms are worsening we can expect to see the radicalization of all classes, both right and left wing of course.

since when did the left and right wings become classes?

[fug]

Sorry my English isn't great, what I meant is that all classes radicalize either in the left or right wing direction.

[Strider]

Something else that I would like to point out is that if someone takes a look at Greece's history, it is obvious why talking about class strugle, socialism e.t.c. reaches almost no one here in Greece (unfortunately that is a fact). Until the end of the 19th century there were no political parties. Just groups with no mechanisms or specific policy and ideas. In additon, the concept of class conciousnece and struggle remained unknown to greeks until the beggining of the 20th century. After the end of world war 2 we had a civil war between right and left wing and when EAM (National Liberation Front, founded by KKE) lost, people were forced to cast their political ideas aside so that the country, now in america's area of effect, could heal from the war. With that said one can understand why socialism, communism, anarchism, class, capitalism, are no more than words to most greeks, or even worse, misinterpreted words. The only thing that they can understand is solutions to their problems. The immigrants are a big problem to which the left cant answer. Golden Dawn can. That is why many prefer it. Not to speak of how fascism and nationalism are deeply carved in greece as it is a very conservative country. When people have only known the flag, that 's what they will turn to in difficult times. What we have to do is provide answers and solutions, just as realistic and practical but even more effective than that Golden Dawn does. Then we can introduce people to our ideas.

[Ocean Seal]

Keep an open mind and you will find yourself agreeing with me a lot more often than you might think;)


But seriously. Im totally against all these false dichotomies fostered by some on the Left. Conscripts reference to "preaching on the street" has, as its subtext, the suggestion that its no use "spreading ideas", that what you wanna do is get out there and get involved in ACTION!!! As if "action" and "spreading ideas" are two totally different and opposed things. Ever heard of dialectics, comrade?

It always amuses that those who profess to be most vehemently opposed to the notion of "spreading ideas" - FFS, I thought that is what differentiated human beings from the animal world , its what makes us human beings amongst other things - are precisely those who will go to such lengths to explain - in minute detail and with considerable passion - their cherished idea that "spreading ideas" is a waste of time.

Perhaps Im being uncharitable but Revleft seems to me to be full of these puffed-up armchair activists who daily display their contempt for spreading ideas by engaging in a forum that is all about...er... exchanging ideas
As a slight add on to this. How do you think that the bourgeoisie have ideological hegemony? They have it not only because they own the media, but because the people (sorry to be so vague) are actively spreading their ideas and their agenda. Material conditions however can change some people here and there, and then it is up to those people to erode bourgeois consciousness away, and without a doubt material conditions will be able to do so for quite a few people, but it doesn't hurt to have more communists spreading the idea around.

[Strider]

Actually I've met some anarcists from my sisters university and I've seen that they are calmly protesting and they don't cause any damage to the public or private property. The media on the other hand tend to label every guy that breaks something an anarchist so the anarchists have been the same for all this time as chaos. I've once seen some MLs that were protesting with a sign of Marx,Engels,Lenin and I can't recall it might be Stalin too and the paper was writing: "Anarchists protest and cause huge damage to shops" even though the ones causing the damage were outers not the MLs...

Anyway the media are doing a great propaganda about everyone that is not in the capitalists' system.

that is true but what i actually meant was that anarchists keep using words like "hate", "kill", "smash" e.t.c. and voluntarily become anti-social, assisting the media with their anti-anarchist propaganda. I myself am quite close to anarchism, though i havent decided yet, and I believe that anarchists can help the situation in greece and have to offer a lot. That is excactly why I criticise them for some things, as a comrade.

[Positivist]

Sorry my English isn't great, what I meant is that all classes radicalize either in the left or right wing direction.

This seems to be supported by history, but in the examples that it has been seen, there was some form of pre-existing left wing (and right wing) organization. This is demonstrated in the United States today. The (rather minor really) economic crisis that injured the economy has lead to a polarizarion between the right and the "left." The problem is that the "left" in the United States is farther to the right than the right used to be 30 years ago. The radicalizarion of right and left mostly occurs within the pre-established "left" even if that left isn't really left at all.

[officer nugz]

that is true but what i actually meant was that anarchists keep using words like "hate", "kill", "smash" e.t.c. and voluntarily become anti-social, assisting the media with their anti-anarchist propaganda. I myself am quite close to anarchism, though i havent decided yet, and I believe that anarchists can help the situation in greece and have to offer a lot. That is excactly why I criticise them for some things, as a comrade.huh?

[Rottenfruit]

Wait...I am sorry? The social democrats in Germany did not fight the Nazi's tooth and nail? Iron Front was a social democrat organisation and was one of the largest violent and active anti-fascist movements in Nazi Germany.

Unfortunately they were also anti-communist....but that does not lessen the fact that much of the current antifa movement is based on the social democratic anti fascist principles of the IF.

Currently a significant part of the active and violent antifa movement is made up of social democrat or liberal youths.
I was talking about social democrats in general,for example the social democartic party in iceland are captalistitic "left wing" party that "supports human rights" even though they support Nato and to join the eu

[Geiseric]

Well they're still capitalists. Social Democrats need their politics to allign with the working class's, to an extent, supporting things like unions, welfare, and public services.

Capitalists want to destroy all of those, so it's imperitave to start a united front with social dems when capitalism has the working class in a corner, like it is today.

[Grenzer]

Well they're still capitalists. Social Democrats need their politics to allign with the working class's, to an extent, supporting things like unions, welfare, and public services.

The proletariat's class interest is liberalism?

[Geiseric]

What the fuck, is the union a liberal institution? Is welfare a liberal idea, or do millions of people depend on it to survive, and are actual liberals trying to destroy it?

[maskerade]

lDdqIuMLGAE

there seems to be some misconception about the anarchists. the fact that alleged MLs are siding with the capitalist press in their crass characterizations of anarchists is absolutely disgusting. anyone who has been to a mass protest should know better - these acts of violence are almost always the acts of police provocateurs. I mean think about it. No one calls themselves anarchist without knowing what it entails, especially in a country like greece. And i'm pretty damn sure anarchists would target the state and capital with their 'violence' and not these petty-bourgeoisie small business owners that the media likes to cry about.

The video I linked above relates to the aforementioned debate about 'real activism' and whatnot. it shows clearly how real people are organizing themselves in a way that attempts to occupy a space outside of capitalism. Just because they don't wear party uniforms and fly a flag of Stalin does not mean that the left is invisible or nonexistent. The real and true left does not need a party to represent it.

[Strider]

huh?
you dont live in greece right? if you did you would probably understand. as time passes and the left as well as marxism keeps dissapointing me I tend to turn to anarchism. unfortunately anarchists in greece dont interact with the working people.

[Thirsty Crow]

What the fuck, is the union a liberal institution?
Yes, it is.
Or more precisely, unions are insitutions of the capitalist liberal democracy.

[Philosophos]

that is true but what i actually meant was that anarchists keep using words like "hate", "kill", "smash" e.t.c. and voluntarily become anti-social, assisting the media with their anti-anarchist propaganda. I myself am quite close to anarchism, though i havent decided yet, and I believe that anarchists can help the situation in greece and have to offer a lot. That is excactly why I criticise them for some things, as a comrade.

Yes of course anarchists don't help the situation they're in because they don't talk or do anything so they can change their "bad" name that the media have given them. But what can you do if they want to do so noone can help them. I'm not going to change things for them by talking at one person at a time and telling them that anarchists don't represent what the media says they represent... Anyway they have to understand it by themselves.

[Delenda Carthago]

there seems to be some misconception about the anarchists. the fact that alleged MLs are siding with the capitalist press in their crass characterizations of anarchists is absolutely disgusting.
Known anarchist slogans:

"Hate, hate, class hate, slaps and kicks to every boss"
"I hate and this is not political"
"We anticipate to fill the family people's couches with blood"
"Whatever the labour promises, looting guarantees"
"bombs, roberies and kidnaps, we have no morals or second thoughts"
"If a comrade of ours will get convicted, the center of Athens will get destroyed"
"relax trendy boys and drink up your drinks, in the next road your car is getting burned"
"No more jokes, lets go for a robbery"


Yes, MLs are to be blamed.

[Geiseric]

Yes, it is.
Or more precisely, unions are insitutions of the capitalist liberal democracy.

Seriously, fuck off. The reason I live in an apartment is because my parents are both in unions. The reason I have insurance is because my parents are in unions. The reason millions of people have a minimum wage, social security, welfare, and have a lifestyle that gives them some free time for politics and enjoying life, not being homeless, is because unions exist.

I'm not sure if you have a job or not, but if you don't work 12-16 hours a day, don't get paid 3$ an hour, and have safety regulations, that's all because of unions.

Unions have changed more lives than every singe left communist organization put together, because they actually are connected with the working class, and they fight for what people care about, instead of calling people reformist when they don't seem "As left as me." It's like communist cock measuring, when people take left communist positions.

Nobody in the working class gives a fuck about capitalism, communism, revolution, imperialism, or anything that we talk about, because they're trying to survive from check to check. Unions make it so a section of the working class has a better lifestyle, and may actually have time to do things like I don't know, read or educate themselves. Not everybody has the same amount of free time as the petit bourgeois "Left intellectuals," (not saying anybody in specific) that are on this forum.

So take a reality check, and think of how much support you'll get from the working class if you don't support things that will make their lives easier. That's the advice i'd give.

[Thirsty Crow]

Seriously, fuck off... ... ... ...
Hey, you might want to try and think with your head and not let your emotions rule the day.
That way you would at least think about what is meant by "an institution of capitalist liberal democracy" (and let me give you a hint: no, I do not deride the positive gains for the working class anywhere in the world by using the unions, and you misrepresented my post and gone off on a line of thought completely).

Also:


Unions have changed more lives than every singe left communist organization put together, because they actually are connected with the working class, and they fight for what people care about, instead of calling people reformist when they don't seem "As left as me." It's like communist cock measuring, when people take left communist positions.
I'd say "grow up", but it would be better to hope you mature enough to realize that this tendency games are not productive, and completely useless.
Do you really think I somehow imagine that left communists changed people's lives? My oh my.

And where did I call anyone reformist? Please, show it, or just come clean that this accusation is a piece of your intepretation (which, as we've established, is wrong).

And I really think that such derision, which amounts to trying to shut an opponent's mouth, is not the best tactic out there, but I guess there are political groups which uphold it, if not consciously (and I bet you would not want to be compared to these groups).
So, nope, no cock measuring here, no leftier-than-thou posturing, just an honest opinion, and please don't shoot me for it.


ot everybody has the same amount of free time as the petit bourgeois "Left intellectuals," (not saying anybody in specific) that are on this forum.
Well, at least I'm glad that I didn't get this honorary tag (though, I wouldn't mind if I did, but if you really think so, say it out loud; not that you necessarily hold this opinion of course).


S
o take a reality check, and think of how much support you'll get from the working class if you don't support things that will make their lives easier. That's the advice i'd give. Just to give you some perspective where I'm coming from, apart from the more theoretically based positions, you should have seen some struggles here where I live and the workers' relationship to "their" union representatives. Would make a whole lot of difference.

[maskerade]

Known anarchist slogans:

"Hate, hate, class hate, slaps and kicks to every boss"
"I hate and this is not political"
"We anticipate to fill the family people's couches with blood"
"Whatever the labour promises, looting guarantees"
"bombs, roberies and kidnaps, we have no morals or second thoughts"
"If a comrade of ours will get convicted, the center of Athens will get destroyed"
"relax trendy boys and drink up your drinks, in the next road your car is getting burned"
"No more jokes, lets go for a robbery"


Yes, MLs are to be blamed.

alleged MLs that hold signs to characterize anarchists - anarchists are not the enemy. though apart from the killing of families I dont really see any problems with those slogans. i suppose they're somewhat juvenile, but that's all.

[Delenda Carthago]

alleged MLs that hold signs to characterize anarchists - anarchists are not the enemy. though apart from the killing of families I dont really see any problems with those slogans. i suppose they're somewhat juvenile, but that's all.

Yeah, they are not the enemy, but sure as hell its nobody else's fault when they get socialy isolated.