making it in the US

[Chewillneverdie]

I just think its odd how the US is the most hated country, but we live the most comfortably, we can change things without getting mowed down.(well sometimes) and the poor have a chance of making it. My family is Irish, fought in the army with US spec ops (101st is Airborne) for 3 generations, and every one of them has made something of themselves, ones a professor, ones a super at a gc, ones well dead, i grew up EXTREMELY poor, as in no electricity, never seeing my mother, etc. etc. I dont like the US, as im sure some of you are well aware of, but dont just hate it cus it is a superpower. It hasnt done near as much damage as Nazi germany, and Soviet Russia(under Stalins rule of course) Do any of you agree on me? Im having some mixed feelings on some of these subjects

[Faceless]

Do any of you agree on me? What of those to whom the U$ is beyond reach. Not everyone can just get a visa and live it up in America. As for what America has given the rest of the world, it has intervened and killed more times than the Soviet Union but the USSR isn't around any more so who cares? (note that I would not liken any president to Stalin) I don't hate the US for what it does internally. It pampers its workers to shut them up. But it upholds a system which is inherently oppressive. I'm glad you have become a success. I live in an economically strong nation (the UK) but my family has not been so lucky despite having very clever members. It is the capitalist system which I hate but America contributes greatest to its survival. It has overthrown democracies time and again and corporations are given a cloak behind which to hide because of it. Look at Latin America, your traditional empire, and tell me that the U$ upholds equality of opportunity.

(ps I have nothing against the American people)

[Maynard]

Actually Norway has the highest standard of living, so they would probably live the most comfortably.


I just think its odd how the US is the most hated country, but we live the most comfortably, we can change things without getting mowed down.(well sometimes) and the poor have a chance of making it
I don't think it's odd at all, it's not because people are richer there, it's there actions towards other nations and personality stereotypes are the main reasons behind it. Everyone who wants to try and change something, will at least be considered to be mowed down. It happened to Martin Luther King, John Lennon , Emma Goldman. All were monitored by the FBI. The poor may have a chance of making it but the majority don't. Because capitalism needs an economic imbalance to succeed. Everyone can't get "rich" under capitalism because it will collapse , so only a select few can ever "make" it.


I dont like the US, as im sure some of you are well aware of, but dont just hate it cus it is a superpower. It hasnt done near as much damage as Nazi germany, and Soviet Russia(under Stalins rule of course)
I don't hate it because it's a super power but I think the damage has been just as significant, not so much against it's own people but people all around the world. They have intervened in 72 nations since the 2nd world war , much to the determinant usually of workers everywhere and most involving violence. They aggressively promote the main cause of injustice in the world, Capitalism. Which has killed more people in the last century than anything else.

[revolutionindia]

Chewillneverdie
America is a powerful country but the path that it has taken to become powerful is very wrong.It has been done at the cost of others.
American companies have no value for non-american lives
They consider the people living outside america as subhumans who serve only one purpose that of consumers.
The double standards of the american government are well known and needs no elaborating

If nothing is done about american companies then
in the near future
people will be born to american companies
To serve one purpose to consume their goods.
Reproduce and die.
This the scary truth however ridiculous you may find it.

American corporations will one day own countries like how they control some governments today.

American tourists are such sex craZed people they go to places all around the world to fuck boys and poor teenage girls and these south asian countries whose women are turning into whores everday think they are doing economic progress .
I think america has reached its peak and from here on it is only one way down trip

I have nothing against the average american citizen but there are some americans who need to be castrated. :angry:

[Hiero]

Here is a good quote "America is a large, friendly dog in a very small room. Every time it wags its tail, it knocks over a chair" Arnold Toynbee (1889 - 1975)

[Chewillneverdie]

but we can and have changed things before. The US is a goddam superpower, of course any threats must be faced. I think some of the things the US has done was to try and help. Somalia, and it gives money to alot of struggling countries. I know it has kept alot of other countries down, but if the american people want to help that country, we can make it happen. Only problem is making the american people understand..

[cubist]

The US has changed things what has it changed?

well it does lots of things


it invaded and booted out all the indians,
it then booted out the brits too
it then imported black slaves to work for nothing to make itthe richest country in the world

[Soviet power supreme]

How the poor people ca make it to the top these days?I mean I understand that there was gold and oil in 19th century and railroads but how they gonna get rich today?Sports?

[Chewillneverdie]

well kicking out the brits was good in my opinion. The Irish were all for it. We hate the bloody feckin brits. lol :D its called getting a job. I know so many poor people that are poor because they wont put an effort into it, or dropped out cause "school is for fools". Yeah there are lots of slaves in my neighborhood nowadays, pickin cotton in my backyard lol. My incred. poor dad studied landscaping, and is one of the best supers in the country. He grew some type of grass you werent supposed to be able to grow in our climate. Go to college, its alot easier if your a minority nowadays, to get into a good college. Oklahoma University, is what i hope to go to, if i go to college, we were #1 till fuckin KState had to be all prissy and beat us, well were still going nat championship anyway. (sorry i like college football)

[Sabocat]

The US is a goddam superpower, of course any threats must be faced. I think some of the things the US has done was to try and help. Somalia, and it gives money to alot of struggling countries.

If you think the U$ was in Somalia solely for humanitarian aid, you're naive. I offer you this:


Somalia is that part of the northeast Africa sometimes termed as the Horn of Africa. The country has a land area of 637,540 square kilometers, a coastal line of 3,025 kilometers long, and a population of about 7 to 8 million. Hot, arid to semiarid climate prevails in most of the country with a rainfall less than 600 mm/year. The natural resources of the country can be generally divided into 1) Marine resources (fish and salt) 2) surface resources (e.g., forests, wild life, frankincense and Myrrh, surface water, etc), and subsurface resources (e.g., rocks and minerals, fossil fuels, and groundwater). Rocks and minerals that are known to exist and available for exploitation include Tin in the Majiyahan - Dhalan area (south of Bosaso - Ceelayo costal strip), Uranium in the Galgadud and Bur Hakaba areas, Sepiolites of Ceel Bur, Iron-ore in the Dinsor district, quartz, granite, marble, limestone and gypsum in different regions of the country. These natural resources include primary row materials for various kinds of industry, e.g, cement industry, industry for prefabricated walls, roofing, floor and wall tiles, aggregates and concrete production, and industrial minerals. Minerals with high potential include gold, zinc, lead, manganese, aluminum, and graphite. Existence of good petroleum indicators has been known for a while, and recent data highly encourage the exploration potential of the country. Water resources are the most needed commodity in
Somalia, and many areas with promising considerable groundwater accumulation have been identified.


Your statement with regards to the U$ "giving" money in foreign aid is naive as well. You don't honestly think the U$ just hands out free money do you? The U$ aid comes in the form of loans in concert with the IMF. Once these "loans" are in place, they pretty much dictate how the economy of that country is handled, often times repayment of loans is at interest rates that the poorest countries just can't ever afford. A quick look at any of the countries in South and Central America that have received this "gift" of money, and how they've fared since should clear this misconception up for you.


Yeah there are lots of slaves in my neighborhood nowadays, pickin cotton in my backyard lol.

Actually there are plenty of slaves in your neighborhood, just not picking cotton. It's just that they're now wage slaves instead. Do you have a Walmart or other national retail chain in your area? Once you're out on your own, just try living on the minimum wage that these people are struggling to get by on.

Yes, you're family worked hard and got ahead, but I promise you that being white and Irish in this country is vastly easier than being a person of color.


but we can and have changed things before.

When? :lol:

[Hampton]

Yeah there are lots of slaves in my neighborhood nowadays, pickin cotton in my backyard lol.

You're a stupid fuck. People don't drop out of school becuase it isn't cool, they drop out becuase of bullshit teachers and administrators hassling them. It also might have to do with not actually learning anything useful in the classroom, nevermind the fact that you can make more money on the street than getting some bullshit minimum wage job. They may not be "pickin cotton" anymore but they still face the same amount of oppression that they did back when they were and you're only fooling youself if you think otherwise. Oh, and yes, going to college for minorities thanks to affirmative action solves all the problems in the world that they may have, college is the cure to all your woes and all that ailes you, if you can make it that far without being put behind bars or dead.

Dick.

[Chewillneverdie]

sorry buddy, everything i said was meant to be taken lightly. I know minorities have it hard, im Irish, my grandfather went through alot of shit. The problem is, you basically have to graduate high school and college to get anywhere. Both my parents dropped out cus my mom got preggo. They were (when i was younger me too) extremely poor. Then they got their GED and did some other type of schools. In my little redneck town, everyone drops out because they think school is gay. I meant none of that literally hampton lol. I get hassled all the damn time, guess what like most the students, the teachers are nednecks too. I basically cant even wear my Che shirts anymore. Were there many slaves in Oklahoma? The first black soldiers fought in this area. Most of the people in my area are indians or rednecks. MLK did wonders didnt he? Dammit i hate taking up for this country, especially when i fucking hate it. I just think alotta the reason people hate the US is because they are the biggest. oh and Hampton i used that whole post as a way to say that life has gotten better. I was also in a foul mood when i wrote it, dad was pushing me around after he had a few drinks because "ill never amount to anything in my life, and hes ashamed to call me a son" stuff like that :lol: truce?

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Somalia? they US invaded the country to make it another ***** only Somalia kicked yankee arse :angry:

[Chewillneverdie]

lol 100 men against 1000 i gotta hand it to the Delta Force, they get shit done

[FabFabian]

Am I the only one who finds che's postings to be....well, contradictory??

[cubist]

daft would be a word but if 100 of fidels soldiers took out 1000 US rangers we would salute so he has a point

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Richard M. Nixon proposed it | Dwight D. Eisenhower planned it | Robert F. Kennedy championed it | John F. Kennedy approved it | The CIA carried it out | 1,197 invaders were captured | 200 of them had been soldiers in Batista's army (14 of those were wanted for murder in Cuba) | One CIA soldier fired the first shot | A volunteer teacher was the first Cuban casualty | 4 American pilots and over 100 Cuban invaders were killed in battle | 1,400 Cuban invaders felt betrayed by their sponsor | One U.S. senator lied to the United Nations | One U.S. president was embarrassed in front of the whole world | In the end a small country, with a 460-year history of struggle for independence, achieved the first victory over U.S. imperialism in the continent.

Forty years later, the war against Cuba continues...

History of Cuba: Bay of pigs (http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/baypigs/pigs.htm)

[bluerev002]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 10:08 PM
It hasnt done near as much damage as Nazi germany, and Soviet Russia(under Stalins rule of course) Do any of you agree on me?


Yeah fucking right!-my statement says it all



it gives money to alot of struggling countries. I know it has kept alot of other countries down, but if the american people want to help that country, we can make it happen.

This is by far my fav. cappie defence that is used against me all the time in debates. Oh yeah, the US is so great for giving money to poor countries isnt it? The hiddne agenda isnt that hard to figure out. If you keep the country in a state where the elite is content with your free money, the lower class cant make revolution, especially a communistic one. you give them money, they dont give you communist.... 2+2=4 not 5


I know so many poor people that are poor because they wont put an effort into it, or dropped out cause "school is for fools". Yeah there are lots of slaves in my neighborhood nowadays, pickin cotton in my backyard lol. My incred. poor dad studied landscaping, and is one of the best supers in the country. He grew some type of grass you werent supposed to be able to grow in our climate. Go to college, its alot easier if your a minority nowadays, to get into a good college

Yes, and I know so many poor people who will give it their all but they still cant succeed because they have too much dignity for welfare checks and the system fucks them over with so much crap that sometimes they have to chose between going to the doctor this month or paying the rent, or paying the electricity bill or buying food. Yes, school suck for all those rich people whose dadies can afford to pamper them eh? But reality states it that most people drop out because they need to work three jobs to survive. Maybe its a diffrence in culture that makes this reality true? Who knows what the "X" factor may be, but I never knew any mexican immigrants that dropped out because school was uncool (maybe some native borns whose parents are from elsewhere have dropped out to join their gangs but fuck them).

And I see many slaves picking cotton, not in my back yard but in the fields, or at Ralphs (or did you not hear about their strikes?). And a statment like that is not to be taken lightly, mind you. And I'm so danm sure that college is now ten times easier to achive with Awnold around huh. I doubt that oklahoma is as full of minorities as CA.

[bluerev002]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2003, 09:57 PM
Am I the only one who finds che's postings to be....well, contradictory??
Yes, very very very contradictory, and confustin at times. Havent you ever heard or spaces?

Like this! not just one bunch of words mate!

[Chewillneverdie]

my fave quote about the US is "people call the US a bully, it isnt a bully takes ur money and beats you up, the US is more like the mob, it gives you money than beats you up. Stalin starved his country, and was a imperialist dictator, Hitler, well we know what he did. Most of OK is indians and rednecks by the way SubCommandante. AND 2+2= 6 STUPID! lol jk

[bluerev002]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2003, 07:59 PM
my fave quote about the US is "people call the US a bully, it isnt a bully takes ur money and beats you up, the US is more like the mob, it gives you money than beats you up. Stalin starved his country, and was a imperialist dictator, Hitler, well we know what he did. Most of OK is indians and rednecks by the way SubCommandante. AND 2+2= 6 STUPID! lol jk
I laug my ass off too commandante, but not at the fact that 2+2=6...

And I have known nothing of rednecks exept those that live in the far ends of town by the dump or by the salton sea burning their crosses. That wich I do know of rednecks is that they are lazy and despicable, my pardons if I am wrong. But indians, I have known not them to be lazy; exploiting, cheating, sons of *****es maybe, but atleast they are smart exploiting, cheating, sons of *****es, never lazy.

[Chewillneverdie]

ah subcomandante you make me laugh. DONT EVER EVER EVER take up for a gay guy in a redneck town, as horrible as that sounds. You will get your ass beat. At least i did, that and im buddhist, and not against abortion, and hate Bush

[ComradeRed]

K, but back to the SUBJECT, please!
[edit](I forgot to quote this sorry)"I just think its odd how the US is the most hated country, but we live the most comfortably, we can change things without getting mowed down.(well sometimes) and the poor have a chance of making it. I dont like the US, as im sure some of you are well aware of, but dont just hate it cus it is a superpower."

It is not a traditional imperialist nation. It is called a 'corporate' nation, for lack of a better name. The popular gov't doesn't endorse the corporations, unlike U.K., France, etc. You see the three TRUE branches of government are: corprate, media, and military. From about 1950+ this is true. The korean war, the military went in to save the people from 'evil communism'. HA! The real reason is because military hoped to have this place to be exploited by corporate reasons (sweat shops), and the media would glamorize everything! Vietnam, resource rich, sweat shop, etc. for corporate; military would get monetary support from corporate; media covered up all bad things. Gulf war, media covers up attrocities, and REAL reason for going, oil; military, picks off an easy enemy to be supplied with cheaper oil. The media covers this all up; corporate, generally, funds the REAL gov't, i.e. media/military; military defends the corporate wants/needs. And this is the United Imperiali$t $tate$ of America.

[Chewillneverdie]

strip away the lies to the truth, in the end the people will decide. I know its a horrible government but, it has to be better than some out there.

[EneME]

Wow...you must have had it great, if you feel like that. That's great that your family was able to pull itself out of a hard situation, and it's true that this country has more opportunities but at a very high price and only for a few. Racism, eventhough some don't want to believe it, DOES still exist. I especially find your comments on slavery, the poor, and minorities offensive. Since you are not a minority nor feel poverty as it is right now, you really will never feel being stereotyped nor outcasted cuz of ur race or gender. Being a white male in america will give u the highest wages, best titles, and more opportunities.

Slavery does still exist, except its slave wage, go to any field of the food you eat at nice prices and you will see what the so called "American Dream" has given immigrants who are usually from south of the border. They don't get healthcare, they get paid less than minimum wage, they're usually illegal so they can't have a drivers license, nor get another job, their kids live in poverty also, but at least they can pay taxes...great piece of the pie they get huh?

If you grow up in poverty, especially being a minority, that IS your world and that is all you know....if the only successful ppl you see around you are dealers, then that is what most kids aspire to be. College is something not at reach for minority kids that live in poverty, public schools are trying to just keep kids IN school, not exactly trying to challenge them. Combine that with the fact that they have to deal with broken homes, parents that don't pay attention to them b/c they work so many hours, having to use public transportation, taking care of siblings and sometimes having to work to keep the lights on in the house. College is a dream, they're just trying to SURVIVE. Kids that grow up privledged go to good schools in good areas with good role models are prepared for college mentally and economically. It is possible to climb out of poverty but it is a great struggle even in the US and it usually takes more than one generation....

[ComradeRed]

Ummm, who are you addressing? if your addressing me, my family DOES live in poverty. I completely disagree, students, if they study hard, CAN get into a college. Sponsors/scholarship. My brother is going to college on sponsors/scholarship ONLY!

I firmly believe that if the republi¢an$ get all illegal immigrants out of the U$, the economy will crumble. I am gung ho for socialized everything, giving EVERYONE (regardless of class/race/etc.) drivers liscence, medical care, etc. Repubi¢an$ want to have rigid class systems, believing that only a selected few should have rights, etc., i oppose it.

I'm sorry if it offended u, but my point was that the poor have the ability to change classes and the uniqueness to american imperialism (because they don't endorse it, yet those with the most money is president). Imperialism gets a selected few rich and leave the masses oppressed.

I have a serious question, I heard that if cuban emigrants get to land in florida do they become citizens? I heard it was legal, but I thought it was too cartoonish and cruel.

[EneME]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2003, 07:04 AM
Ummm, who are you addressing? if your addressing me, my family DOES live in poverty. I completely disagree, students, if they study hard, CAN get into a college. Sponsors/scholarship. My brother is going to college on sponsors/scholarship ONLY!

I firmly believe that if the republi¢an$ get all illegal immigrants out of the U$, the economy will crumble. I am gung ho for socialized everything, giving EVERYONE (regardless of class/race/etc.) drivers liscence, medical care, etc. Repubi¢an$ want to have rigid class systems, believing that only a selected few should have rights, etc., i oppose it.

I'm sorry if it offended u, but my point was that the poor have the ability to change classes.

I have a serious question, I heard that if cuban emigrants get to land in florida do they become citizens? I heard it was legal, but I thought it was too cartoonish and cruel.
no i was addressing the guy who started the thread...and I do believe students can get to college...but the reality is that it doesn't happen often....I live in the innercity and am going to college and some of my friends too but about 80% of the ppl i went to school with and have known didn't because of one reason or another. Lots had kids by the time i was a sophomore or had already dropped out cuz they were already selling or working or on drugs. Me and my friends are lucky to have the opportunity, but its a serious struggle because we commute everywhere, we HAVE to work to pay for books etc, we have to search and search for scholarships and on top of that study....its seriously extremely harder...

[ComradeRed]

Oh ok disregard my 2nd post then...

[bluerev002]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2003, 11:04 PM

I have a serious question, I heard that if cuban emigrants get to land in florida do they become citizens? I heard it was legal, but I thought it was too cartoonish and cruel.
I dont think they become citizens, they just get the rights to stay in the US, its their way of telling all the othert Cubans how good the US is <_< .

In reality most will live in poverty. Their American Dream will shatter before their very eyes as they see their fellow Cubans working selling Hot dogs in stands or flipping burgers. Like eneME said, college and a better life like their fellow Cubans have (Celia Cruz, Cafeta Cuba, ect. ) made riches and fame.

The US make the world a better place? Yes they ahve the potential, but so do I, so do you.


Oh, eneME, are you Mexican or some type of Latin Amercian?

[EneME]

Oh, eneME, are you Mexican or some type of Latin Amercian?
Yes, I&#39;m Central American...

[Chewillneverdie]

i meant it as a joke, and if you dont recall, being Irish was also a bad thing "paddy of the boat with no money and nowhere to go" AND I DID GROW UP POOR, i didnt eat much, lived in an apartment in the slums, my mom worked 3 jobs, we couldnt afford electricity, and sometimes the water was an odd shade of brown. Oh and i cant afford college, amd i never worked hard enough for a free ride, i doubt id go anyway. Shipping of for the Zapitistas when i graduate. With a few of my trusty, FFE comrades. and im sorry, i didnt mean to be offensive, i know slavery still exists, but i poke fun at EVERYTHING. I went to basically an all black school, and some of my good friends are minorities, hell bluerev is my closest advisor in FFE

[Rastaman]

The U&#036;A was a great country once where people (even poor people) could make it. But as with all democracies an aristocracy formed. It is inevitable. Democracies start nice and fair and end as an astocracy. Now america is owned by some 10% of the population.. The fairness and all that crap left as soon as people had more thna other.. Their kids got to go to better schools and so on.. I mean how did Bush become president? Maybe because his name is bush? It something to think about...

[Chewillneverdie]

I know a girl related to Bush, she is rich as hell, tho she hates Bush. I know the US isnt that great of a place but, its not as bad as most people would think, or people will tell you it is.

[Soviet power supreme]

I mean how did Bush become president? Maybe because his name is bush? It something to think about...

What was that TV series name that was hosted by Michael Moore.In one episode there were this guy who couldnt get the gollege because Bush get there.The fact was that that guy was smarter than Bush.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2003, 05:47 PM
The U&#036;A was a great country once where people (even poor people) could make it. But as with all democracies an aristocracy formed. It is inevitable. Democracies start nice and fair and end as an astocracy. Now america is owned by some 10% of the population.. The fairness and all that crap left as soon as people had more thna other.. Their kids got to go to better schools and so on.. I mean how did Bush become president? Maybe because his name is bush? It something to think about...
The only time the U&#036; was a great country was when the only inhabitants were the natives

[Individual]

Addressed: CheWillNeverDie

Do you understand in any way shape or form what your represented name(Che) stands for. Yet clearly, no matter how much you will deny, you completely contradict everything you say. Obviously you are leaning towards being conservative, which is fine because you are your own person. But can you clearly not see that the United States is capitalist and that we are an empire. Not in traditional sense that we are conquering the lands to expand our nation. We are only expanding our military occupancy and stomping ground. No big deal to the rest of the world. Right? This is what you are basically saying. And as for Somalia. Did you ever think that the US government(sorry empire) sent aid for something behind the curtain. There are things that go on that the American people do not know. That is politics. Is this right? Hell no. This is supposed to be a democracy, not what is going to benefit the already wealthies pocket book. And as for the under privelaged. Did you ever consider the idea that you need money to go places. And not just vacation. If you want shelter, what must you have? If you want land. What must you have? If you want to start this web forum, what must you have? My point being that the poor have a harder time getting somewhere because they do not have the money to start out. The worst part about it is that most people working for minimum wage work their tail off. Wealth runs this nation, if you have money, you have power. Before you start opening that pie of yours, I might try and do some research on the topics that you are tryin to discuss, it also might help that you wait a few years until you get out of your adolescence so that you can make your own decisions and not repeat what you heard from your parents at the dinner table. I may be wrong, but this is definetely the signs you are putting across. My only point being that you do not fully understand what you are saying. Pay attention to what Disgustapated and FabFabian are saying. Please, for your own sake.

[tebvie]

I haven&#39;t kept up with everyhting said but here it goes. I&#39;m not sure but I think the point of "chewillneverdie" is that America while it has done it&#39;s fair share and then some of bad things it shouldn&#39;t be viewed entirley as an evil country. I live in the US and I think the reason things are how they are is because the people that actually make up this country won&#39;t stand up and take hold of it instead we&#39;ve allowed asses who consider themselves elite to keep thinking they are. So for generations we have these people in power who want to be in power who make people think that the only reason they are in power is because they are better when in fact it&#39;s only because we allow it to go. It might not make sense but I know what I mean. America has done many evil things and the truth of the matter is that even when they are doing something "good" it is only to cover up hat&#39;s really going on. I get headaches thinking how stupid this whole war shit is. It&#39;s ridiculous of Bush to think he&#39;s commander of being able to say what is right and wrong, but that&#39;s another story. Anyways I think "chewillneverdie" is trying to say, in a nice way, America is what it is. It&#39;s good for those in it bad for those out of it, and that&#39;s life and that really sucks. I live for the day that there will be a revolt or revolution if you want to call it and Americas govt. will be revamped and replaced and imerialism will go on no longer.

[Rastaman]

we can stop it. We just have to try. I&#39;m gonna have to go with comradrob and whatever mao said here.

[Saint-Just]

I completely disagree, students, if they study hard, CAN get into a college. Sponsors/scholarship. My brother is going to college on sponsors/scholarship ONLY&#33;

But you have to be an exceptional student to so this. Some people may have reasonable ability and could go to college if they were better off. In addition, those brought up in poor areas will often under achieve, they have to take some responsiblity for how hard they work, but not entirely. If you go to a bad school where class sizes are large and you do not get encouragement from home and so on you will be at a disadvantage.

Some people can enter college on sponsorship or scholarship, but very few. I am intelligent enough to go to university, but not intelligent enough that one would offer me a scholarship or sponsor. The higher education system in the U.S. is iniquitous.

[Chewillneverdie]

lol have you even looked for scholorships nowadays? there are a shitload out there. Some for being a minority, some for being good at something (bagpipes even&#33;) lol and i dont contradict but im not a jump on the bandwagon guy, im almost always indecisive about anything and everything. I just dont hate the US for every reason, sure i hate em. There are other reasons i do, they are an empire. But an empire thats somewhat fair to its people, and if the majority of the people want something done, it usually happens. Im not pro US but im not anti US to where i wanna see every US soldier die. Che stood for alot of great things, but to i have to worship him like a god?

[BuyOurEverything]

CWND: You are showing the typical sort of naivite that one would expect coming from a capitalist. As CM adressed, some people can make it through "hard work" and "hard studying" but those are the few exeptional and lucky ones. Most don&#39;t. Yes there are a lot of scholarships out there but the vast majority of them don&#39;t even come close to covering your tuition let alone living expenses for college.


Im not pro US but im not anti US to where i wanna see every US soldier die.

I don&#39;t think most people here want to see "every US soldier die" either. However, your lack of hatred towards the US is stemming from ignorance, as much as it may hurt to hear it. Living in the US myself, I can absolutely see where your atitude of "it&#39;s not that bad" is coming from, however, if you dig a little deeper you can see the attrocities that the US commits ever day as a common occurence both outside of and within its borders. Hundreds of thousands of people can&#39;t get afford to feed themselves or their children. Alot of single moms are forced onto welfare because the costs of child care and transportation are greater than what they would make at their job. Then they are called &#39;lazy&#39; by people with similar attitudes to yours because they don&#39;t work. Or they&#39;re called irresponsable if they leave their child alone while they go out and earn just enough money to feed them.


Che stood for alot of great things, but to i have to worship him like a god?

Of course not, but if you&#39;re going to go against a huge amount of what he stood for, you probably should take him out of your name and avatar and stop wearing shirts with his face on them, although you did say that you already have.

[Individual]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 10:20 PM
lol and i dont contradict but im not a jump on the bandwagon guy, im almost always indecisive about anything and everything. I just dont hate the US for every reason, sure i hate em. There are other reasons i do, they are an empire. But an empire thats somewhat fair to its people, and if the majority of the people want something done, it usually happens. Im not pro US but im not anti US to where i wanna see every US soldier die. Che stood for alot of great things, but to i have to worship him like a god?
addressed: Chewillneverdie

First off, you have basically just proved everything I have said. And I quote you "im almost always indecisive about anything and everything" Having said this, how can you even have a formed opinion on the United States. I also live in the US. I am not anti US. Am I anti the way the United States is heading, and our present government? Yes. You say that one reason you hate the US is that they are an empire. You then proceed to say that they treat their people fairly. Do you happen to know what the United States of America&#39;s Bill of Rights is? Ok. Well then have you heard of the Patriot Act that is now present? Do you believe this is treating its people fairly. Surely it has probably not directly affected you personally. However if you happened to write something very unmeaningful, i.e. "I am a terrorist", the government has the right to question, and cofiscate whatever they please. But I&#39;m sure you know this. This is where it goes back to you being indecisive. That is fine, however if you question something, please do not write it down as your opinion, instead ask questions. I am not just going at you. I tend to get irritated with things like this.

Here is a question. And please answer honestly. I do not know you personally, however my assumptions are that you are still in your adolescence. It is a fact of history that children feel the need to rebel/speak out on things because they can. My point being if this is the case, atleast research the topics you discuss and the things you say. Before you type them out only to think you know what you are talking about.

Have you ever heard of a man named Che Guevera? Of course you have. Do you have any idea about this man and what he did during his life, what he stood for? This goes back to what I have said in my last paragraph that children, even some grown minds, do/represent/speak out about things that they think they believe in. Only to come to realize that they may know nothing about them, or even 1-5-10 years from now they find themselves completely on the opposite of what they used to stand for. This touches on the fact that BuyOurEverything has said. Do not represent Mr. Guevera only because you saw something cool with his name/face on it. Represent him because you believe in what he stood for and you wish to continue his legacy. And this is the contrary to what you are doing. You may believe that you stand for his beliefs, but you do not show that you do. You show mixed feelings on everything. I think it is great that you are on this forum. However it sends bad messages of yourself that you represent one thing and stand for another, or even stand for nothing at all. Everyone, including myself, writes in here to share their knowledge/views/theories, and to learn more knowledge etc. etc.

Sorry but the last thing is; No you do not need to worship him as a God. But if you represent him, actually know what it is that he stood for, and do not contradict yourself by sending opposite messages.

[sickofyou]

I think america should stand for something too, the right to kick-ass&#33;

;(only when we are provoked. sick

[Individual]

WTF? What is it with you people... for the third time today.. Does anyone (and I know the majority of you do) realize what this web page is supposed to represent? Most definetly not that America is perfect and we kick ass. Honestly, how could you possibly say that what this country should stand for is kicking ass? Are you also an idiot? Sorry for being inconsiderate on this one, but honestly.

Do you care nothing of your freedoms? Do you only care that we can "kick ass"? Aw I&#39;m sorry, I should have realized. Dubya&#39;s over there with his terrorist edition AK to your head. Makes sense now... Come on, seriously. Are you just that conservative that you think we should jsut go around terrorizing other nations? Are you also for the capitalists that we have in charge of this country? Honestly though.

Please tell me that I have this all wrong and that you have said this not because you mean it, but because it is actually true and this is what we are known for because of the big W. that we have in office&#33; And answer honestly, because I am not fond of people that say things and change their minds, only unless they have come to the sensible conclusion that their idea was not sensible. I am not trying to sound like God, but read around and start to pay close attention, people do not know half of the things that they are talking about, and if they do, I can not figure out what they are doing on this forum, unless trying to stand out like a sore GWB thumb. This is the third time today I have come across a post that is completely insane.

[BuyOurEverything]

WTF?

My thoughts exactly. The majority of people here do know what Che stood for (and as such, this web page) though.

[Individual]

Yes I realize the majority do. But the ones that don&#39;t, think that they do and it just blows my mind. I literally never thought that this would come. The fact that some people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, and if they do, what the hell are you doing in here except trying to cause this kind of havoc? My apologies to 90% of this community that have moral standards.

[Individual]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 01:29 AM
I think america should stand for something too, the right to kick-ass&#33;


not to go around ripping apart individual people, however yet more evidence as to what I have been saying.. This contradiction from sickofyou...

In this making it in the US forum sickofyou writes:

" I think america should stand for something too, the right to kick-ass&#33; "

In another forum under literature sickofyou writes about Fidel Castro:

" YEY VIVA FIDEL &#33; RISE UNTO THE PEOPLE …twas a great song wouldnt you agree, please share some of thows poems.?

long live him "

Now please respond if you can, in the same way as I, see the contradiction of this confused mind...

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 10:20 PM
lol have you even looked for scholorships nowadays? there are a shitload out there. Some for being a minority, some for being good at something (bagpipes even&#33;) lol and i dont contradict but im not a jump on the bandwagon guy, im almost always indecisive about anything and everything. I just dont hate the US for every reason, sure i hate em. There are other reasons i do, they are an empire. But an empire thats somewhat fair to its people, and if the majority of the people want something done, it usually happens. Im not pro US but im not anti US to where i wanna see every US soldier die. Che stood for alot of great things, but to i have to worship him like a god?
I am speechless, and frankly surprised you have not been restricted as a capitalist.

1. You do not advocate education free at the point of consumption.

2. You say the U.S. is a fair nation to live in.

3. You say the U.S. is ruled by majority opinion.

[tebvie]

You&#39;ve all proved your points. Some poeple work hard for what they have others don&#39;t. That&#39;s life, some people just do better is it fair no&#33; Does it happen yes. People who try to better themselves "become educated" get respect if they dish it out and not just because they might have worked hard at it. Everyone has their struggles.

To chewillneverdie

I think I get where your comming...sometimes...as to whether you should worship che like a god...what for. You think he did what he did to be worshiped and idealized no. He did it cause he felt like fighting what was wrong, although I doubt we&#39;ll ever know why he did what he did.

As to the whole thing about all those who live in united states are capitalist. All I want to say to that is what the ****? I don&#39;t know how many people you&#39;ve met that live in the US, I live in the US and the last time I checked I never had "killing and destruction of innocent people" on my agenda. Bush did so please don&#39;t judge us all by the chracter of one ****. And please don&#39;t presume we&#39;re all a bunch of little bored want to be rebelious white kids. That&#39;s offensive like you wouldn&#39;t beleive.

[Individual]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 07:14 AM

As to the whole thing about all those who live in united states are capitalist. All I want to say to that is what the ****? I don&#39;t know how many people you&#39;ve met that live in the US, I live in the US and the last time I checked I never had "killing and destruction of innocent people" on my agenda. Bush did so please don&#39;t judge us all by the chracter of one ****. And please don&#39;t presume we&#39;re all a bunch of little bored want to be rebelious white kids. That&#39;s offensive like you wouldn&#39;t beleive.
Tebvie:
First off I&#39;d like to address to you, that I was born, and now currently live in the US.

Second off, could you please give me your definition of capitalism, for you have it all wrong. Capitalism is most definetely not the "killing and destruction of innocent people". You may know this but linked your sentences togethor in a misinterpreted kind of way.

And I have traveled to many places in my life, especially in the years following 9/11. I travelled all through Europe and people realize this, that our people are not the US government. So do not judge on yourself that we are being perceived in the same way as the Bush administration. This would be like you perceiving all of the citizens of Iraq to be exactly like Suddam Hussein.

And about saying that you do not have to worship Che like a god. Who ever said that he needed to? Clearly nobody. However the point I was trying to make on this child was that if you are going to have any respect for Che&#39;s name and representation, could he please know anything about Che&#39;s principles. If he knew any of these, he would either not represent Che Guevera, or he would change his views of thought. My point being that nobody said you need to worship Che, however should you follow atleast some of his principles if you are going to say that you follow him. Surely you should, however he does not. And for you to say that we will never know Che did what he did. It is clearly obvious why. Che Guevera is a man that stood for the right of his people. He stood for the fight against corporate, and imperialistic nations like our own. So for you to say that we may never know why he did what he did. Try for his people. Which is what great leaders should do, instead of doing things for themselves.

[Chewillneverdie]

im trying to say, the US isnt the rapist murdererous that ive heard they are lately. Sure there are people in the US like that. Timothy McVeigh was a murderous bastard, Bush is a murdering bastard, just bout everyone high up is. Hey if you wanna see something change, to quote Mike Moore "have as many people as you know like us run for office for a change". Che is my hero from the fact, he was there for the people of the world, the people who were cast aside and ignored by their government. He made them realize they were there, I know about Marxism yes, I have studied Che for a few years now, If i was a cappie, i wouldn&#39;t be joining the EZLN now would I? Im saying the US can be ruled by a majority if almost everyone in the country wants something they will usually get their way. That can go both ways, I dont support capitalism in any way, but ive noticed so many people now hate the US just because they need someone to hate. It takes alot for me to hate a majority people, I hate Bush , but i dont hate america, just the fuckers running it, I pretty much hate Stalin, but should i hate communists? Im tired of hearing about how evil the US as a whole is, and that every teacher is trying to brainwash you and all that stupid shit. Just remember people that are so far on the left are just as bad as those so far on the right. I respect Che for what he did, and agree with almost everything hes for, he&#39;s just an all out inspiration. Sure the US is a fuck up, but from the way i see it, there are alot bigger fuck ups out there. Ashcroft hasnt got me yet, and i have a group ready to ship out to the Zapitistas, which are a much bigger threat to the US government than most people seem to realize. Oh and i plan to go armed lol, which i guess makes me a threat, and so far i havent been taken out so im happy. So Always been to my site yet? Youll notice a distinctive differance in the "tone" of how i talk, the reason. Im alot less serious around you guys(and girls) from the fact, im not having to impress anyone, or convert anyone over to the goodside. Education should be free, but what the hell am i supposed to do about it? Im pretty sure alot of the money goes to the sports, Bob Stoops makes millions of dollars as OUs coach, and thats just one guy. Not much you can do to change the US cept prep the public, and try to slowly change things. Like Chomksy said "were not going to see the revolution here in our lifetime" so i say make do with what you have. The chance to change peoples minds seems like my best option. Oh and Che didnt wanna be idolized, but it just happened, people like him diserve to be idolized. I have Ches message to the TriContinental passed out by my local org. Seems people just love him. Oh and i dont agree with sickofyou at all. Just cus you can kiss ass doesnt mean you should, look at the swiss

[left for dead]

i wouldn&#39;t be joining the EZLN now would I?

From what I&#39;ve read, you are an idiot. What is it with people here having some kind of mental wet dream about joining the EZLN? Don&#39;t people understand that they(the indigenous) don&#39;t want people fighting for them? It is their struggle, and most of you probably wouldn&#39;t last a day in the jungle. Fight your own fight, on the homefront.

The EZLN aren&#39;t a threat to the U.S. government, the only reason the U.S. has not gone down there and blown the Selva Lacandona up is because Mexico gives them cheap labor and the Mexican government kisses so much American ass. The EZLN aren&#39;t even looking for government positions, they want autonomy and end to the indigenous people oppression.

[kyotou]

Chewillneverdie, your point is somewhat right (it&#39;s based on logics) but I don&#39;t see the point of expressing your point. ¿What&#39;s your goal with expressing this? We all know that in capitalism some do it and some don&#39;t... I think that&#39;s the very base for the anti-capitalist feeling for most people. Yes there are places where capitalism works worse, but that means USA people shouldn&#39;t take care of USA problems? Once USA starts minding their own business, the rest of the countries will do just fine.

[tebvie]

In response to AlwaysQuestion

I think what I was trying to say on capitalism didn&#39;t quite come out right. Non-technally Capitalism is in some ways a cause of how countries get to be imperialistic. To put it in simple terms it&#39;s this idea of self centeredism. Capitalism means one thing but is used in another way. I&#39;m not saying it&#39;s all bad or that it&#39;s bad at all because capitalist whether people want to admit it or not have accomplished great things. the problem wiht it doesn&#39;t lie in that but rather in at what costs it has accomplished these things. If I had a choice I of what kind of society I would like to live in, I don&#39;t know what I truly don&#39;t know what I would choose. I haven&#39;t had the chance to "live", not merely glance at other types societies and don&#39;t claim to because I know I don&#39;t know everything there is to know about any society, even my own. My point on the US is that many times people take what they see in the news for example, as an example of what everyone is like.
In response to the che thing I know he did what he did out of the injustice he felt for those people and I mentioned that in the other quote. what I meant by us never knowing why he really did it, is that we will never have a straight answer it&#39;s all merely speculation, and it&#39;s within this speculation that people start worshiping him as a god. None of us ever talk to him or asked him why, we hardly hear about the man outside of the fighter. No matter how much I read on him or hear I never claim to know much about him because I never get to hear about the man. Yes the man was the fighter, but the man was also the drive.