Rachel Corrie: Court rules Israel not at fault for death

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

No surprises here, but infuriating none the less.

An Israeli court has ruled that the state of Israel was not at fault for the death of US activist Rachel Corrie, who was killed in the Gaza Strip by an Israeli army bulldozer in 2003.
Ms Corrie's family had brought a civil claim for negligence against the Israeli ministry of defence.
The judge said the 23-year-old's death was a "regrettable accident".
He said the state was not responsible for any "damages caused" as they had occurred during "war-time actions".
Judge Oded Gershon, presiding at the court in the town of Haifa, said Ms Corrie had been protecting terrorists in a designated combat zone.
He said the bulldozer driver had not seen her, adding the soldiers had done their utmost to keep people away from the site. "She [Corrie] did not distance herself from the area, as any thinking person would have done."
He ruled the state of Israel did not have to pay any damages. The Corries had requested a symbolic $1 in damages and legal expenses.
They had accused Israel of intentionally and unlawfully killing their daughter, and failing to conduct a full and credible investigation.
An Israeli army investigation in 2003 concluded its forces were not to blame for Ms Corrie's death.
Ms Corrie's parents, Cindy and Craig, who had once again made the long trip to Israel from the US to pursue their case, looked dejected after the ruling was read out, says the BBC's Jon Donnison in Haifa.
"I am hurt," Cindy Craig told reporters after the verdict was read.
The family's lawyer has said they will appeal against the ruling to Israel's supreme court.

(More at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19391814)

[Silvr]

I don't know, I have mixed feelings about all the hype around Rachel Corrie. I have a lot of friends from her hometown, and I know people who were close to her, and she was definitely a really good person. But Palestinians, who obviously haven't made the conscious choice to be where they are (a choice that she obviously made by going there), are murdered by the IDF pretty regularly, and it seems that none ever gets even a tiny fraction of the attention that she has gotten.

[cynicles]

That's exactly why she was there, the western media isn't going to give a rats ass about Palestinian suffering, but, even though the world shouldn't work this was, we have to be honest to the fact that having a white face can help sometimes. If her actions can bring some measure of realization or disruption of American political assumptions on the issue then it could help. Then again given the number of people who have been killed and the variety of backgrounds they've been from without sparking a substantial change in popular opinion in the US nothing might change.

[Silvr]

I don't get why 'changing popular opinion' in the US is such a focal point for some people. I don't think more Americans *****ing about their 'tax dollars' going to 'a foreign country' is going to change anything. It seems like if you're in the business of trying to change 'popular opinion' re the situation of people in the territories, then changing it in Israel is more important than changing it in America.

[#FF0000]

It seems like if you're in the business of trying to change 'popular opinion' re the situation of people in the territories, then changing it in Israel is more important than changing it in America.

yeah but when america doesn't like a thing...

[Silvr]

What? :confused:

[Ocean Seal]

This is like asking whether or not OJ thinks that he was guilty.

[X5N]

That's exactly why she was there, the western media isn't going to give a rats ass about Palestinian suffering, but, even though the world shouldn't work this was, we have to be honest to the fact that having a white face can help sometimes. If her actions can bring some measure of realization or disruption of American political assumptions on the issue then it could help. Then again given the number of people who have been killed and the variety of backgrounds they've been from without sparking a substantial change in popular opinion in the US nothing might change.

I don't really pay attention to American news sources. Has this actually been reported on at all?

[#FF0000]

What? :confused:

I am saying that swaying public opinion on the Israel/Palestine issue in America, literally Israel's biggest ally and backer, could be a big deal.

[X5N]

I am saying that swaying public opinion on the Israel/Palestine issue in America, literally Israel's biggest ally and backer, could be a big deal.

Indeed it would be. Though we still have a long way to go -- considering how "anti-Israel is anti-Semitic" is still believed by a lot of people.

I'd do my part by writing a zine and corrupting all the high school kids with it...but I'm too stupid to write an anti-Israel zine.

[Positivist]

I am saying that swaying public opinion on the Israel/Palestine issue in America, literally Israel's biggest ally and backer, could be a big deal.

Yea and there's also the thing about how if the us is ever going to have a workers revolution, popular opinions is going to need to be changed pretty substantially.

[cynicles]

I don't really pay attention to American news sources. Has this actually been reported on at all?

Not that I'm aware of, which makes it more important for activists to highlight the issue.

Changing popular opinion in the US isn't about doing things for Palestinians directly, only Palestinians can do that, it's about robbing Israel of its veil of impunity and material support that governments provide it with.

[Silvr]

it's about robbing Israel of its veil of impunity and material support that governments provide it with.

Governments like the US. Which basically just reinforces the idea that America is some sort of moral authority, when frankly, the violence and terror of the American state makes Israel look comparatively completely tame. If you want to waste your time trying to change 'public opinion' about something, then change Americans' opinions about 'their own' state, or Israelis' opinions about 'their own' state (or, better yet, change Canadians' opinions about 'their own' state!). If American opposition to the state of Israel becomes dominant, I promise you that it isn't going to take the progressive form you are imagining.

[#FF0000]

Governments like the US. Which basically just reinforces the idea that America is some sort of moral authority, when frankly, the violence and terror of the American state makes Israel look comparatively completely tame. If you want to waste your time trying to change 'public opinion' about something, then change Americans' opinions about 'their own' state, or Israelis' opinions about 'their own' state (or, better yet, change Canadians' opinions about 'their own' state!). If American opposition to the state of Israel becomes dominant, I promise you that it isn't going to take the progressive form you are imagining.

you can do all of those things at once though.

[Silvr]

you can do all of those things at once though.

You can change American 'public opinion' about Israel, American 'public opinion' about America, Israeli 'public opinion' about Israel, and Canadian 'public opinion' about Canada all at once? Wow, you must be superman. Do you do a lot of traveling or what?

In any case, it doesn't seem to be working too well. But then, I thought evangelizing and trying to 'change public opinion' was the stuff of liberals and PACs, not communists.

[cynicles]

You can change American 'public opinion' about Israel, American 'public opinion' about America, Israeli 'public opinion' about Israel, and Canadian 'public opinion' about Canada all at once? Wow, you must be superman. Do you do a lot of traveling or what?

In any case, it doesn't seem to be working too well. But then, I thought evangelizing and trying to 'change public opinion' was the stuff of liberals and PACs, not communists.
Are you just really stupid or something?

My post had nothing to do with America being a moral authority, where do you even get that? I was talking about the political and military impunity that Israel receive from US backing. That makes what US citizens and other western citizens think of Israel important in changin how they feel about their own governments.

[Silvr]

Are you just really stupid or something?

Yes, obviously anyone who disagrees with you is stupid.

My post had nothing to do with America being a moral authority, where do you even get that? Its implicit in a lot of the thinking displayed in this thread, and in the entire idea of 'waking up Americans' about the state of Israel.


I was talking about the political and military impunity that Israel receive from US backing. That makes what US citizens and other western citizens think of Israel important in changin how they feel about their own governments.I don't think that is necessarily true at all. It is perfectly possible, and in fact pretty typical, for American patriots to dislike certain government policies, without it shaking their faith in the state in the slightest.

I think a lot of the stuff with trying to change American public opinion about Israel is just a gigantic diversion, and I'm talking as someone who is absolutely anti-Zionist and who came out of the Palestine solidarity movement.

[Ele'ill]

I feel like some of the users in this thread are batting at the air a bit. What was Rachel Corrie doing regarding Palestinian solidarity stuff and why are we talking about other criticisms of stuff that she may not have been in support of or whatever.

[Silvr]

I feel like some of the users in this thread are batting at the air a bit. What was Rachel Corrie doing regarding Palestinian solidarity stuff What? :confused:


and why are we talking about other criticisms of stuff that she may not have been in support of or whatever.

That's the course the discussion took. And I think its pretty relevant, considering that Rachel Corrie was an American involved with Palestine solidarity work. But I mean, if you wanted a thread to just talk strictly about Rachel Corrie, here are two (http://www.revleft.com/vb/israel-not-fault-t174655/index.html?t=174655) others (http://www.revleft.com/vb/rachel-corrie-verdict-t174506/index.html).

[Ele'ill]

What? :confused:

That's the course the discussion took. And I think its pretty relevant, considering that Rachel Corrie was an American involved with Palestine solidarity work. But I mean, if you wanted a thread to just talk strictly about Rachel Corrie, here are two (http://www.revleft.com/vb/israel-not-fault-t174655/index.html?t=174655) others (http://www.revleft.com/vb/rachel-corrie-verdict-t174506/index.html).

I don't understand how your criticisms apply to Rachel Corrie specifically.

[Silvr]

I didn't say they applied to Rachel Corrie specifically, but they do apply to the work she was involved in, so that seems pretty relevant. It seems like you are just derailing the discussion for no reason, though..

[Ele'ill]

I didn't say they applied to Rachel Corrie specifically, but they do apply to the work she was involved in, so that seems pretty relevant. It seems like you are just derailing the discussion for no reason, though..

But I was commenting on your criticisms, apparently of what Rachel Corrie was doing, in a Rachel Corrie thread. Most of the users here are obviously confused with your position on the subject.

[Silvr]

I haven't gotten that impression. I feel like I have been pretty clear in my comments, and while others obviously disagree with my views (as is their prerogative; this place would be pretty dead if everyone agreed about everything), no one has said that they don't understand what I am arguing. But if anyone is confused about particular comments I have made, and would like to quote something specific I have said which they don't understand, then I would certainly be happy to clarify my views.

[Silvr]

But I will even recap what I have said in this thread to save you the trouble of quoting stuff:

1. I said that sometimes the amount of hype around Rachel Corrie bothers me, because when the IDF kills Palestinians who actually live their lives under occupation in the territories (i.e. rather than living in the West, in comparatively extremely comfortable conditions, and choosing to briefly travel to Palestine to participate in political demonstrations), it never garners even a fraction of the outcry and attention that Rachel's death has.

2. I replied to someone else's comment about 'changing American popular opinion regarding Israel', arguing that I think this is actually a pretty pointless thing to spend your time working toward.

3. I then explained that, in my view, if you want to try to change 'public opinion' (which I think is in itself pretty futile and basically amounts to evangelizing), then it would be more valuable to try to get people to oppose their own state, rather than trying to get them to oppose a foreign country.

Is that any clearer?

[Ele'ill]

But I will even recap what I have said in this thread to save you the trouble of quoting stuff:

1. I said that sometimes the amount of hype around Rachel Corrie bothers me, because when the IDF kills Palestinians who actually live their lives under occupation in the territories (i.e. rather than living in the West, in comparatively extremely comfortable conditions, and choosing to briefly travel to Palestine to participate in political demonstrations), it never garners even a fraction of the outcry and attention that Rachel's death has.

2. I replied to someone else's comment about 'changing American popular opinion regarding Israel', arguing that I think this is actually a pretty pointless thing to spend your time working toward.

3. I then explained that, in my view, if you want to try to change 'public opinion' (which I think is in itself pretty futile and basically amounts to evangelizing), then it would be more valuable to try to get people to oppose their own state, rather than trying to get them to oppose a foreign country.

Is that any more clear?

No, that's not any more clear that's pretty much what you said the first time and I get it and I agree but I don't understand how some of the users in this thread can reply with what they did while understanding where you're coming from.


I feel like some of the users in this thread are batting at the air a bit. What was Rachel Corrie doing regarding Palestinian solidarity stuff and why are we talking about other criticisms of stuff that she may not have been in support of or whatever.

[Keath]

Maybe they should try suing the particular person who was operating the bulldozer, is there any legal expert here who knows if such a thing is possible for her parents to do?