Another militia busted (this time in the Army)

[Salyut]

Well this is interesting. (http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/08/27/bulletin-four-soldiers-in-militia-allegedly-plotted-government-overthrow/)


Update: The AP is reporting that members of the militia “wore distinctive tattoos that resemble an anarchy symbol,” according to a prosecutor.

Prosecutors today said that four active-duty soldiers in Georgia formed what was described as an “anarchist militia” and took steps aimed at overthrowing the U.S. government, The Associated Press reported.

One of the four, Pfc. Michael Burnett, told a judge in Ludowici, Ga., today that former soldier Michael Roark and his girlfriend, 17-year-old Tiffany York, were murdered in December because he knew of the militia’s plans and was a “loose end,” the AP said. Burnett pleaded guilty today to manslaughter and gang charges.

The group spent $87,000 on guns and bomb-making materials, according to prosecutor Isabel Pauley. The AP also quoted Pauley saying the men intended to take over Fort Stewart, bomb unnamed sites in Savannah, Ga., and Washington state, and assassinate the president.


I'm assuming they co-opted any anarchy related symbolism.

[Os Cangaceiros]

There was some more info on this posted on @news:

http://anarchistnews.org/content/anarchist-militia-within-us-army-plotted-kill-obama-overthrow-government

They also apparently wanted to poison apples and blow up dams. UHNURKY!

[Ravachol]

Even apart from the ridiculous plot (this whole blabla has nothing to do with 'anarchism', regardless of whether you are a proponent of armed struggle or not) this: 'Prosecutors said the group called itself F.E.A.R., short for Forever Enduring Always Ready' ought to prompt anyone even close to that group to make a 180 degree spin and walk away.

Besides, if advocating armed action against the government (which is something wholly different from the state, let alone class society in general) is the line of demarcation for anarchists, I guess most nationalist, religious and reformists-with-guns (ie. national liberation movements) classify as 'anarchists' :rolleyes:

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Hey Look! It's anarchists doing ultra-left infantile stuff! Who would have imagined?!

[The Douche]

Hey Look! It's anarchists doing ultra-left infantile stuff! Who would have imagined?!

You can't honestly believe these people are anarchists in any meaningful sense of the word.

[ed miliband]

Hey Look! It's anarchists doing ultra-left infantile stuff! Who would have imagined?!

you seem confused son. very confused.

[Positivist]

They're probably just anti-state anarchists who have absolutely no class understanding.

[Ravachol]

Hey Look! It's anarchists doing ultra-left infantile stuff! Who would have imagined?!

Don't make a fool out of yourself, it devalues your comments in other threads even more.

[Ravachol]

They're probably just anti-state anarchists who have absolutely no class understanding.

What does that mean? What is an 'anti-state anarchist'? (as opposed to pro-state anarchists? :confused:)

These guys are most likely (though I can't confirm nor deny that) some type of libertarian strain or conspiracy militia conservatives who are all about 'no fedurul government posse comitatus bro'.

[Positivist]

In Workers-Control-Over-Prod's defense there are many insurrectionary anarchists who are pretty intense about direct action and armed struggle so its not like its some ridiculous position that anarchists would make plans to violently attack government facilities.

[Positivist]

What does that mean? What is an 'anti-state anarchist'? (as opposed to pro-state anarchists? :confused:)

These guys are most likely (though I can't confirm nor deny that) some type of libertarian strain or conspiracy militia conservatives who are all about 'no fedurul government posse comitatus bro'.

By anti-state anarchist I mean exclusively anti-state without being anti-capitalist, hence why I wrote "with no class understanding." What else could I have possibly meant?

[The Douche]

In Workers-Control-Over-Prod's defense there are many insurrectionary anarchists who are pretty intense about direct action and armed struggle so its not like its some ridiculous position that anarchists would make plans to violently attack government facilities.

You think these dudes are my bros? Ok, explain why.

[Silvr]

Haha, poisoning apples? What complete losers. I half expected to see The Douche defending them, though. "Whoa, bro, its a social war" *chest bump*

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

You can't honestly believe these people are anarchists in any meaningful sense of the word.

From my real life observations most people who call themselves anarchists are petty-bourgeois rebels against "the system" with abstract bourgeois ideals of "freedom".
I think a more precise question is, who are "real" anarchists? And if these individuals aren't, what criteria are you using to categorise people into the large base of "anarchism"?

[Positivist]

You think these dudes are my bros? Ok, explain why.

No I don't think they're your "bros" as I'm assuming someone self-identifying as an anarchist doesn't make them your bro, but its not some crazy deformation of insurrectionary anarchism to support armed struggle. Though it is quite unusual to see this supported in the form of some small group.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

How about we all collectively stfu until more information is released

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

The goal of these particular individuals was to inflict damage on the state, "authority". All Anarchists i have actually met in real life were for complete anti-hierarchy and "rebels" against all authority for a vacuum (isolated from material reality) ideal of freedom. Anarchists are not materialists, but idealists, wanting to build a world solely according to ideals and not material reality.

[Silvr]

I think the generalizing about anarchists is pretty stupid, though. I doubt there are very many actual anarchists, i.e. IWA types, who would support something like this. Although it wouldnt be that surprising to me if some insurrectionists and assorted individual American anarchyists did.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

"actual anarchists" i yet have to meet. Where is your speaker please "real anarchists"?, because all i see are idealist advocates for a better world.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I don't think insurrectionism lends itself to isolated militia groups in any way.

[Positivist]

I think the generalizing about anarchists is pretty stupid, though. I doubt there are very many actual anarchists, i.e. IWA types, who would support something like this. Although it wouldnt be that surprising to me if some insurrectionists and assorted individual American anarchyists did.

Yes this is my view.

[Silvr]

I don't think insurrectionism lends itself to isolated militia groups in any way.

Uhhhhh lol

[Igor]

The goal of these particular individuals was to inflict damage on the state, "authority". All Anarchists i have actually met in real life were for complete anti-hierarchy and "rebels" against all authority for a vacuum (isolated from material reality) ideal of freedom. Anarchists are not materialists, but idealists, wanting to build a world solely according to ideals and not material reality.

Can't be a proper commie if you're not down with hierarchical power structures, eh? Gotta know one's place.

[Crux]

I can see this thread is full of liberal pacifists not ready to poison apples for the greater good.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Uhhhhh lol

Drop some knowledge on me person

[Silvr]

Drop some knowledge on me person

http://libcom.org/forums/news/italian-anarchists-kneecap-nuclear-executive-threaten-more-shootings-11052012

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/25/anarchists-claim-railway-signalling-bristol

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

http://libcom.org/forums/news/italian-anarchists-kneecap-nuclear-executive-threaten-more-shootings-11052012

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/25/anarchists-claim-railway-signalling-bristol

Are you planning on connecting these to this?

edit: in an ideological sense I mean

[Silvr]

Are you planning on connecting these to this?

edit: in an ideological sense I mean

Connecting what to what? I dont think the militia in the original post are insurrectionists. I was just responding to your comment


I don't think insurrectionism lends itself to isolated militia groups in any way.

Obviously some insurrectionists do operate this way.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Can't be a proper commie if you're not down with hierarchical power structures, eh? Gotta know one's place.

Precisely, you seem to believe you know more than such intelligent and dedicated leaders of history like Lenin, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, and do so falsely. You are blatantly less knowledgeable about material and revolutionary reality than many communists, and hence you would have to accept you lower "hierarchical" rank. It is no mishap that all countries controlled by the working class so far ended up rather deformed contrary to what we leftists would like to see, a completely egalitarian society. The forces of capital, imperialism are stronger than ever and have been the fundamental hindering cause to building an advanced socialism, one where time and energy could be used to make decisions collectively and people treated in accordance to their feelings and not military capability to fend off imperialist hordes waiting to gain more profits for capital.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Sorry my post my have been unintentionally vague, I don't mean isolated in the sense of a small group acting unilaterally, I mean in the sense of 4 randoms acting in a complete vacuum somewhere in Georgia.

[Silvr]

Oh lol

[The Douche]

This thread is so full of fuck, that it is my favorite thread on revleft in recent memory and I can't wait to contribute to it further, hopefully while totally wasted.

[o well this is ok I guess]

In Workers-Control-Over-Prod's defense there are many insurrectionary anarchists who are pretty intense about direct action and armed struggle so its not like its some ridiculous position that anarchists would make plans to violently attack government facilities. They probably wouldn't get ridiculously lame tattoos, though.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The name of their group, "F.E.A.R.", sounds like a ridiculous collection of super-villains.

Also, WCOP, stop making yourself sound like a stooge, dude.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

The name of their group, "F.E.A.R.", sounds like a ridiculous collection of super-villains.

Also, WCOP, stop making yourself sound like a stooge, dude.

Oh yes, i must be too dumb to understand what the "real" anarchists are all about.

[Comrade Samuel]

I can see this thread is full of liberal pacifists not ready to poison apples for the greater good.

Down with that bougeois monster snow white! Free the dwarven prolaterate!

I think most anarchists on this site would agree that these people are counter-productive and draw negitive attention to the left but what are you going to do about it? Prove to even middle class teenager that they understand nothing about proper anarchist theory and that some rules do in fact exist to keep us safe? Good luck with that.

I understand this wasn't the exact case this time but it is usually who does it when this kind of thing happens.

[Magón]

Oh yes, i must be too dumb to understand what the "real" anarchists are all about.

Reading your posts, I have to agree you don't know what you're talking about, and you sound like just another sectarian trying to sound like you know something about Anarchism. Which seems like very little.

Do you honestly think that four people claiming to be "Anarchists", makes them real anarchists, and that their actions are Anarchist in anyway? Honestly, how does four people poisoning apples, make you think of Anarchist action?

If they'd claimed to be Marxists in a Marxist militia, would you have said they weren't "real Marxists"?

[Silvr]

The name of their group, "F.E.A.R.", sounds like a ridiculous collection of super-villains.

I dunno, sounds like it would be a good name for a hella sick communist street gang (*chest bump*) to me


Also, WCOP, stop making yourself sound like a stooge, dude.pretty sure he is a stooge, tho.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Oh yes, i must be too dumb to understand what the "real" anarchists are all about.

Well, anarchism as a political theory has been around for about 150 years, and in that time plenty has been written about the topic, and plenty of praxis has been established by people claiming to be anarchists. If you can't be bothered to do a bit of critical thinking and research into the matter, well, that would be a shame but it wouldn't be suprising.

Just because you've never met anarchists that don't fit your narrow ideological preconceptions doesn't mean they don't exist. I've never even met a Marxist-Leninist in real life. Doesn't mean that they don't exist. And your lack of insight into real-world anarchist activity is stunning. Here's an example of something that "real anarchists" (lol!) do:

http://www.solfed.org.uk/?q=solidarity-federation-to-agency-workers-together-we-can-fight-back-and-win

(and for the record, I'm not someone who thinks that only IWA people and similar organizations are "real anarchists")

[The Douche]

I dunno, sounds like it would be a good name for a hella sick communist street gang (*chest bump*) to me
pretty sure he is a stooge, tho.

So anyways, what's your old username?

[Silvr]

InternetToughguy121

[Ele'ill]

Hey Look! It's anarchists doing ultra-left infantile stuff! Who would have imagined?!

I don't think your posts in this thread are 'misunderstood'. Can you not do this again and instead maybe ask questions since you seem to lack a level of understanding yourself.

[human strike]

These guys are most likely (though I can't confirm nor deny that) some type of libertarian strain or conspiracy militia conservatives who are all about 'no fedurul government posse comitatus bro'.

That was my suspicion.

[leftistman]

First they make no impact on the zeitgeist whatsoever, then they go and kill people. When will American anarchists learn how to be useful political activists?

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Have you taken into account how awesome killing people is???

[Ravachol]

First they make no impact on the zeitgeist whatsoever, then they go and kill people. When will American anarchists learn how to be useful political activists?

When will activists stop being activists? And when will 'Marxists' (badly informed ones it seems) stop making ridiculously uninformed drive-by comments.

[Sasha]

yup, obviously anarchists, the suposed leader of the militia was a page at the 2008 (!) GOP convention; http://gawker.com/5938288/leader-of-army-plot-to-assassinate-obama-apparently-attended-the-2008-republican-convention-as-a-page

can people stop calling them anarchists already, by the sounds of it they where as anarchist as the the sons of anarchy tv bikergang....

[bcbm]

they where as anarchist as the the sons of anarchy tv bikergang....

they actually quote emma goldman at least

[Ravachol]

they actually quote emma goldman at least

Not to mention it's a quite entertaining show!

[No_Leaders]

Wow the propaganda machine has been really trying to scare the public with "anarchist violence" the past few months now. What with the homeland defense/ fbi warning of anarchist violence at the RNC/DNC and the plot to blow up a bridge in ohio was it? and the plot at the protests for nato summit. Jeeze.

I must say how are anarchist idealist bourgeoisie? Someone on here seems pretty quick to think anarchists are all a bunch of spoiled middle class kids who just want to rebel for the sake of rebelling. I thought we were beyond silly generalizations. Hmm guess not?