Remembering Great Revolutionary Joe Strummer on his 60th birthday-- post your tribute

[coda]

Was a pre-teen girl living in the States when the British Punk invasion -- The Pistols and The Clash broke... was an instant life long fan and punk ever since.

RIP Joe Strummer..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8J2zJTn5S8

[coda]

oops.. typo in the title -- It's Joe's 60th birthday..

[Sam_b]

I changed it for you.

[coda]

Thank you, Thank you! :)

[coda]

The Clash, Live Paris 1980
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9I2ss5gF9c


Joe and the Mescaleros, Bizarre Festival 1999 (full show)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muFcdaKejOM&feature=related

[Comrades Unite!]

I am so mad now!

I forgot it was his birthday and I planned to play every Clash song from the Debut album to Combat Rock, film it and put it on youtube, I also can't believe its been 10 fucking years!

Sandanista is my favorite album and it always will be.Washington Bullets is such an amazing song.

Joe Strummer in my opinion, is better than Dylan or Springsteen.
I wish he was alive so I could talk to him about music and politics.

The Clash opened doors for me politically and musically, I would not be on here on revleft if not for The Clash, I never cared for politics but then when I heard what Strummer was on about I decided to research and found that Marxism is what I agreed with,I have his London Calling radio broadcasts on tape and it has alot of great music on their, Some of it was used for the documentary ''Joe Strummer: The future is unwritten''

R.I.P Joe Strummer and long live Mick Jones, Paul Simonon and Topper Headon.

[coda]

<<The Clash opened doors for me politically and musically, I would not be on here on revleft if not for The Clash, I never cared for politics but then when I heard what Strummer was on about I decided to research and found that Marxism is what I agreed with>>

Yes I am certain The Clash were the gateway to many a revolutionary sparks and riots. And still are and always will be for times to come. the good thing about music is that it keeps on giving, long after everyone else.

I was completely shaped musically and personally by The Clash and the early punk movement. And that had a bearing on me politically toward an Anarchist bent.

I need to get myself a copy of those Joe Strummer radio shows!! I would love to hear what he would spin.


Speaking of..
I found this old archived thread of a post i impromptu DJ'ed here in 2002 (aka Valkyrie, aka Paris), long before Youtube and music links, and seven months before he died. :( Just Clash lyrics with a revolutionary theme.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/monday-night-music-t10518/index.html?t=10518&highlight=monday+night+music+fest+featuring+The+Cl ash

[Manic Impressive]

er great revolutionary may be an overstatement.

But if you haven't read this I thought you might find it interesting (2nd chapter) http://ianbone.wordpress.com/ruck-riotn-roll/

[coda]

<<<er great revolutionary may be an overstatement.
But if you haven't read this I thought you might find it interesting (2nd chapter) http://ianbone.wordpress.com/ruck-riotn-roll/>> (http://www.anonym.to/?http://ianbone.wordpress.com/ruck-riotn-roll/)

never read it... Thanks.

[ed miliband]

when i was about thirteen i listened to 'london calling' (the album, not the song) repeatedly for six or so months. then i heard that a member of the clash - not strummer, mind - had kids around my age and sent them to a local private school. i wasn't political but had a crude sense of class conciousness and this ruined the clash for me on so many levels, especially because there was an almost personal element to it (ie, knowing people who knew his kids, and so on). i didn't really listen to them again, and wrote them off as posh boys playing dickensian urchins - and that's true to a large extent, strummer even changed his accent when he went punk.

i listened to 'london calling' for the first time in about six years a few weeks ago, and i have to say that it is genuinely a great pop album. like all good pop music there is a certain melancholy edge to it, along with being catchy and danceable, etc.

that said, i think describing strummer as a 'great revolutionary' is really pushing it, and i'd settle with 'good pop songwriter'. there's no shame in that, imo.

[kurr]

He made some cool tunes. That's my tribute.

[coda]

<<<<that said, i think describing strummer as a 'great revolutionary' is really pushing it, and i'd settle with 'good pop songwriter'. there's no shame in that, imo.>>>>


Well, ed, I always take in consideration the differences in taste in music and of course, after that the age of the commenter. you say you were 13 when you listened to "London Calling" for six months.. so I guess that's about 10 years ago, give or take. and no shame in that. But, that might be the problem. You weren't alive for the beginning of the punk explosion, you lack the historical context as well as the political climate at that time, and the immediate vitriol of their live performances.. And that's what they were -- a 'Live' band. Yes, the analogy could be made it's like the difference of being at a concert (any concert) and someone telling you about that concert. It's definitely a 'you had to be there' type of thing. So, being that you're still at University.. I would have to assume that you missed the whole seminal punk movement.. as well as the entire British Invasion.. John Lennon's death at the hands of a psycho who was just denied parole for the 7th time Yesterday-- (no pun intended), the horrible 80's new wave scene, RAP and RB as we know it.. and last but not least you probably even missed as you most likely were being born, how grunge wiped out the Hair bands Overnight. So, no offense to you, but i take your knowledgeable comment with a grain of salt....

[Prometeo liberado]

B-side of Combat Rock is absolutely amazing. RIP.:sleep:

[ed miliband]

<<<<that said, i think describing strummer as a 'great revolutionary' is really pushing it, and i'd settle with 'good pop songwriter'. there's no shame in that, imo.>>>>


Well, ed, I always take in consideration the differences in taste in music and of course, after that the age of the commenter. you say you were 13 when you listened to "London Calling" for six months.. so I guess that's about 10 years ago, give or take. and no shame in that. But, that might be the problem. You weren't alive for the beginning of the punk explosion, you lack the historical context as well as the political climate at that time, and the immediate vitriol of their live performances.. And that's what they were -- a 'Live' band. Yes, the analogy could be made it's like the difference of being at a concert (any concert) and someone telling you about that concert. It's definitely a 'you had to be there' type of thing. So, being that you're still at University.. I would have to assume that you missed the whole seminal punk movement.. as well as the entire British Invasion.. John Lennon's death at the hands of a psycho who was just denied parole for the 7th time Yesterday-- (no pun intended), the horrible 80's new wave scene, RAP and RB as we know it.. and last but not least you probably even missed as you most likely were being born, how grunge wiped out the Hair bands Overnight. So, no offense to you, but i take your knowledgeable comment with a grain of salt....

that has nowt to do with your description of him as a 'great revolutionary' though.

[Comrades Unite!]

when i was about thirteen i listened to 'london calling' (the album, not the song) repeatedly for six or so months. then i heard that a member of the clash - not strummer, mind - had kids around my age and sent them to a local private school. i wasn't political but had a crude sense of class conciousness and this ruined the clash for me on so many levels, especially because there was an almost personal element to it (ie, knowing people who knew his kids, and so on). i didn't really listen to them again, and wrote them off as posh boys playing dickensian urchins - and that's true to a large extent, strummer even changed his accent when he went punk.

i listened to 'london calling' for the first time in about six years a few weeks ago, and i have to say that it is genuinely a great pop album. like all good pop music there is a certain melancholy edge to it, along with being catchy and danceable, etc.

that said, i think describing strummer as a 'great revolutionary' is really pushing it, and i'd settle with 'good pop songwriter'. there's no shame in that, imo.

A pop album? really?

There's about three pop songs on there, The album has a heavier Reggae and Ska influence than Pop, With some rock songs,jazz and soul.

[ed miliband]

A pop album? really?

There's about three pop songs on there, The album has a heavier Reggae and Ska influence than Pop, With some rock songs,jazz and soul.

something can be reggae and ska influenced and still be pop, same for soul, and to a lesser extent jazz; in many respects, reggae, ska and soul are all (regional) pop sub-genres. if you look at 'london calling' compared to other albums coming out of the punk scene in 1979 (say, throbbing gristles' 'twenty jazz funk greats', public image ltd.'s 'metal box', crass' 'stations of the cross', etc.), it's very clearly a pop album, and that's nothing to be ashamed of - i very much admire it for that, in fact.

[Fawkes]

A pop album? really?


Yeah, every song on that album utilizes the standard pop format of verse-chorus-verse each identified by distinct melodies, dual-guitar, bass, drums, and vocals instrumentation, repeating chord progressions consisting of no greater than 3 or 4 chords, cyclical and relatively short rhythmic patterns, each song existing as a self-contained unit, the list goes on. And that's just the songwriting, even the mixing is characteristic of pop albums of that era.

London Calling is a great album, no doubt, but yes, it certainly is pop.

[coda]

<<<that has nowt to do with your description of him as a 'great revolutionary' though>>>

that was me venturing an explanation of your complete ignorance to the significance of The Clash within the historical context of music, which has nothing to do with musical tastes, and all to do with knowledge of music.

[ed miliband]

<<<that has nowt to do with your description of him as a 'great revolutionary' though>>>

that was me venturing an explanation of your complete ignorance to the significance of The Clash within the historical context of music, which has nothing to do with musical tastes, and all to do with knowledge of music.

what are you on about?

i explained why i had - quite irrationally - written off the clash for reasons completely unrelated to music taste or knowledge. i then said that i had realised the error of my ways and that i appreciate the clash's music again, but that i don't think that joe strummer could be described as a 'great revolutionary', as you did. this is not a musical criticism and it is not a denial of the clash's place in musical history, but my judgment of strummer's personal politics.

why was he a 'great revolutionary', then? did you mean in terms of music, or did you literally mean he was a 'great revolutionary' like marx or bakunin or whatever?

e: btw, i keep looking like a negative nancy in all these threads, but that wasn't my intention here; my initial post was genuinely meant to be positive.

[coda]

<<<And that's just the songwriting, even the mixing is characteristic of pop albums of that era.>>>

hey Fawkes, we meet again... :)

Just curious.. like which pop albums of that era? I was buying records during that time-- and even before then -- remember 45's? and I don't really remember any that sounded like The Clash. Pop music during that time was Barry Manilow and the Captain and Tennille.. etc. I shit you not..

[coda]

Oh! "Negative Nancy".. for a minute I thought you were calling me Nancy Spungeon... oye..

<<<'great revolutionary', as you did. this is not a musical criticism and it is not a denial of the clash's place in musical history, but my judgment of strummer's personal politics.>>>

Well, revolutionary, musical wise, no doubt.. I know it's hard to put into context 35 years later.. But you have to erase Everything that came after that.. Because they didn't exist. Everything after that has been influenced consciously or not by everything that came before. (and No new genres or music has been made in the last 12 or more years..sorry,that's just true!)

Joe Strummer was a great revolutionary like Marx and Bakunin because he used his particular talents to agitate and draw attention via music.. (which has a broader audience and access than any books or speeches).. the plight of the working class through his left wing ideology in a confrontational manner. That had never been done before.. The clash have a whole body of work to illustrate that. Did you not see my 2002 post of lyrics above? Read and educate....

http://www.revleft.com/vb/monday-nig...ring+The+Clash (http://www.revleft.com/vb/monday-night-music-t10518/index.html?t=10518&highlight=monday+night+music+fest+featuring+The+Cl ash)

[coda]

<<e: btw, i keep looking like a negative nancy in all these threads, but that wasn't my intention here; my initial post was genuinely meant to be positive.>>

Okay.. if you're genuinely meaning to be positive? then I do apologize. This, is after all meant to be a Joe Strummer tribute thread to his would-have 60th birthday.

Still, I do think suggesting that The Clash is common run-of-the-mill bubblegum type Pop music.. (which most Pop music is).. is a bit insulting to a band that was Number One: Political to the Core.. and Number two.. Original innovators of the punk genre.
And they have rabid fans -- like me. (second to the Ramones.)

[coda]

not having mentioned... The Clash are *very* British sounding...I can't think of another band as much so.. and I don't know about regional UK accents.... But, Yes, part of their US appeal, for sure.

Listening to them now.. after not hearing for quite some time.. (too long) a fucking Great band with a totally unique sound... like no other then or now...

[Manic Impressive]

I didn't mean to cause any offense by my comment. Perhaps it was poorly worded. But I generrally agree with Vonnegut's assessment of the impact of political music which is; "It's as effective as dropping a cream pie from the top of a step ladder"

Anyway I posted that article as it's a first hand account from people who organized politically with Joe Strummer. Which I thought his fans might find interesting. Don't think that was worthy of a neg rep.

[coda]

<<I didn't mean to cause any offense by my comment. Perhaps it was poorly worded. But I generrally agree with Vonnegut's assessment of the impact of political music which is; "It's as effective as dropping a cream pie from the top of a step ladder"
Anyway I posted that article as it's a first hand account from people who organized politically with Joe Strummer. Which I thought his fans might find interesting. Don't think that was worthy of a neg rep.>>

I thought the article was great and interesting. I totally appreciate it. the rep didn't come from me.

As far as the Vonnegut quote --- ha! that's another debate all together(that i'd love to have.. ho ho! don't bait me)

But thanks again for the article. What can I say.. haters will be haters.. can't imagine why of a band that's oeuvre was totally Left wing radical. hey, But what can you expect when people think only Marx and Bakunin (or was that Bukharin) are the only revolutionaries?

[Fawkes]

<<<And that's just the songwriting, even the mixing is characteristic of pop albums of that era.>>>

hey Fawkes, we meet again... :)

Just curious.. like which pop albums of that era? I was buying records during that time-- and even before then -- remember 45's? and I don't really remember any that sounded like The Clash. Pop music during that time was Barry Manilow and the Captain and Tennille.. etc. I shit you not..

If you're just curious, why the need to be so passive aggressive? You know what the beauty of recorded music is? It's recorded, i.e. it's preserved in the form in which it was originally engineered. So while I may not have been alive during the 70s to understand first-hand the context in which London Calling was released, I still have ears that work as well as anybody's, and I can make judgements about the formal characteristics of The Clash's music as well as anybody else, even those of us that don't "remember 45s".

Number one song on the Billboard Hot 100 in February, 1979, the same year London Calling was released:
ooYjf95rATg

Now compare that to this:
IOgo_clq8dM

Some similarities between them in terms of mixing:
- Hard-panned guitars slightly out of phase with each other with filter modulation. Both songs have the guitars mixed at pretty much the same level.

- Drum kit mixed dead center except hi-hat which is panned very slightly.

- A punchy, compressed snare.

- Bass mixed dead center, even at higher frequencies.

- There's a good amount of reverb on the horns in Rudie and the synth in Sexy, and a little bit on the guitars in both songs.

- The only vocal multitracking is on the chorus of Do Ya Think I'm Sexy?, and even there, it's pretty subtle.



And as far as the Barry Manilow comment, so what? That doesn't negate The Clash's music from being pop just because it doesn't sound exactly like Barry Manilow. Pop music right now is Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift... and Nickelback and Nicki Minaj

[coda]

context is everything, fellow comrade. Such as you would have known that that Stewart song, was known then, and most certainly now, the lowest point in his career and took years for him to gain credibility as a serious musician after having previously fronted the great band Faces. But, no matter, right.

I pretty sure,though, that The Clash is historically cemented as British punk pioneers. and a couple of you saying that they're mere pop musicians ain't gonna change that...

[coda]

For Strummer fans:

a stream of a live song he did with the Mescaleros -- one of his last gigs, Nov 15, 2002,from the album released on his birthday - Joe Strummer and the Mescaleros--The Hellcat years.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/song-premiere-joe-strummer-the-mescaleros-johnny-appleseed-live-20120821

[coda]

<<< But I generrally agree with Vonnegut's assessment of the impact of political music which is; "It's as effective as dropping a cream pie from the top of a step ladder">>>

I want to correct the context of the Vonnegut quote above, posted by Manic Impression. (Thanks to LH for pointing it out.)

Vonnegut was asked in an interview in 1974, in regard to the then current Vietnam anti-war protests, what an artist of his stature, would have on the effect of current leaders if he participated in a protest..... and he quoted as correctly stated by Manic Impression ""Like the impact of dropping a cream pie from a step ladder,"

The interview is here.
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/vonnegut-57434-whose-war.html

[coda]

Here's a rare stripped down lyrical version of Complete Control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEsv5jptayQ

for posterity sakes: if a serious comparison need be made of a contemporary mid-late 70's Pop band to the Clash, look no further than Scottish teen Tartan trouser band "The Bay City Rollers". Otherwise, I can't recall many Pop "bands" of that era... a lot more pop singers/groups without bands... which is not a good comparison i.e. the Rod Stewart defection.

[Comrades Unite!]

^ I've watched all those videos before.

The complete control one displayed Mick Jones class Guitar playing skills.

If theirs ONE thing I dislike about Joe.S its his Guitar playing, you can hardly hear it and it looks so stiff!!!

[coda]

Hey! I was just wondering about you. I wanted somebody to come in the thread and lust over The Clash with me.

I love Joe's guitar playing. Those machine gun staccato notes (in this song in particular) get me every time. and he slings his guitar low and perfect. Not sure if there's a better front man.

I've got more vids to come..

[brigadista]

for all you lovers of the punk rock warlord
here is the first part of the julien temple documentary the future is unwritten- there is a full version on there

ByfZTMcu_Hc

[Comrades Unite!]

^ Love that film, have it on DVD.

A song that NOBODY talks about is Sean Flynn.

It's such an atmospheric song, It puts a picture in your head of the Khmer Rouges killing fields.

Another lesser known song is ''All the young punks'', not enough know about it and its such an amazing song.

[coda]

<<here is the first part of the julien temple documentary the future is unwritten- there is a full version on there>>

yeah, I'd suggest anyone who wants to see it should do so before they pull it for copyright infringement. Half the shit on Youtube, disappears fairly quickly.
Thanks for posting, Brigadista.

<<A song that NOBODY talks about is Sean Flynn.
It's such an atmospheric song, It puts a picture in your head of the Khmer Rouges killing fields.>>

Yes, great song about Sean Flynn,, a revolutionary himself who took huge risks (that cost his life in Cambodia) photographing the US war in southeast Asia, documenting what the US was aggressively trying to cover up.

Comrade Unite, your knowledge is extensive and impressive. You sure do your homework. I didn't know who Sean Flynn was until around the early 90's when I watched the great Australian tv series "Frankie's House". (no internet than, which helps.) I've been desperately looking for a copy of the film since. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104294/

the Vietnam war photographers behind "Frankie's House" http://www.thecatfromhue.com/frankieshouse.htm

[leftistman]

I'm not very familiar with the Clash's work, what's so revolutionary about them? What are their political views?:confused:

[coda]

They were revolutionary pioneers of seminal British punk, 1977, along with The Sex Pistols (garage, not hardcore.) Politically, they were left-wing and wrote music that were working class social commentaries in need of revolution.

Much better said and way more eloquently, is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame bio (The Clash inducted 2003.) Excellent read if you want an idea of where The Clash stands historically on the music scene.

http://rockhall.com/inductees/the-clash/bio/

[Fawkes]

context is everything, fellow comrade. Such as you would have known that that Stewart song, was known then, and most certainly now, the lowest point in his career and took years for him to gain credibility as a serious musician after having previously fronted the great band Faces. But, no matter, right.

I pretty sure,though, that The Clash is historically cemented as British punk pioneers. and a couple of you saying that they're mere pop musicians ain't gonna change that...

I am well aware that that song is widely regarded as a low point in his career. The fact that it is a cheesy pop song is precisely why I chose it as an example to show how London Calling was mixed in a manner that was very much in vogue at the time.

I never said The Clash were not punk pioneers, I said that they were a pop band. Pop and punk are not mutually exclusive terms. And you saying "mere pop musicians" implies that pop music is somehow unworthy of the respect allocated to non-pop music.

Your attempts to use your age as validation of your arguments don't work here. I'm not talking about the social impact The Clash had, I'm talking about the formal characteristics of their music.

I would normally never say what I am about to -- so you'll have to excuse me -- but an arrogant comment is worthy of an arrogant response: I'm a musician and sound designer with a good deal of mixing experience, so when it comes to things like this, I kinda know what I'm talking about. I guess it's one of those "you had to be there" type of things though :rolleyes:

[Fawkes]

Spent part of my 21st birthday a few weeks ago at a bar with a Joe Strummer mural outside
Rh5txTRGUFY
lZBaklS79Wc

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I would say, like a lot of British punk music, it has influences of pop-punk (which is something quite apart from pop music itself) and of course reggae and ska. The Clash weren't, in general, your typical hardcore/post-hardcore punk band like you get in the US.

Joe Strummer was pretty good, IMO, though i'm not hugely familiar with The Clash's back catalogue.

[coda]

<<<<I am well aware that that song is widely regarded as a low point in his career. The fact that it is a cheesy pop song is precisely why I chose it as an example to show how London Calling was mixed in a manner that was very much in vogue at the time. I never said The Clash were not punk pioneers, I said that they were a pop band. Pop and punk are not mutually exclusive terms. And you saying "mere pop musicians" implies that pop music is somehow unworthy of the respect allocated to non-pop music. Your attempts to use your age as validation of your arguments don't work here. I'm not talking about the social impact The Clash had, I'm talking about the formal characteristics of their music. I would normally never say what I am about to -- so you'll have to excuse me -- but an arrogant comment is worthy of an arrogant response: I'm a musician and sound designer with a good deal of mixing experience, so when it comes to things like this, I kinda know what I'm talking about. I guess it's one of those "you had to be there" type of things though >>>>

First I need to say.. if you are hearing The Clash as pop music, you need to think about your sound equipment. And Turn it Up! It shouldn't be sounding like pop music.

If I'm coming off as arrogant, it's rather a confident first hand knowledge of 70's music. I thoroughly believe that you can't take The Clash (or any band) out of their context of Time and Place and expect to come up with an accurate interpretation without also looking at tons of other factors like musical landmarks (of which The Clash are one of many) evolution of change, borrowed techniques, influences, sound, elements added and left behind, who their peers, contemporaries and fans are. All of it is important to consider. Pop music in the 70's was a different sound than Pop in the following decades. First generation punk doesn't sound anything like what punk is today. The Clash were ground breaking original seminal punk band that created a movement and that's the only way they should be analyzed -- in the context of their particular time, rather than through today's lens and current music standards.

I can probably guess we have different definitions of what pop music is, but as I've always understood it and what was represented to me is that it was status quo, not given to exercising a lot of artistic merit or control, not much in the way of originality, most times not even recorded by the actual songwriters, it didn't delve into different genres or have any kind of political message or social statement. safe, inoffensive, it appeals to the broadest base.

As far as mixing goes, Yes, I recall you speaking of your experience in music as well as the radio show too. :) But, Again, you're overlooking how music used to sound in Analog recordings. The digital remasters of the original recordings (to different degrees and extents)sound has been lost and distorted, (horrendous in some cases)--most of it done by record label engineers without the artists' consent to the sound quality. (Hence, Jimmy Page painstakingly remastering the Led Zeppelin discography himself to prevent that.) So, in other words, much of what you're probably hearing of older music is a somewhat distorted remastered copy from original. (only in regard to music pre-80's or so)

Anyhow, we should agree to disagree, because there's nothing else to do to but that.

and apologies if this is worded disjointedly.. I'm in the middle of some serious double-tasking.

Still, much respect to Fawkes. :thumbup1:

Ed: eek.. very disjointed. had to clean it up. Next time I'll give my full attention writing the post. sorry...