Netanyahu ‘determined to attack Iran’ before US elections

[Prinskaj]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-determined-to-attack-iran-before-us-elections-claims-israels-channel-10/

[Invader Zim]

If Israel's own military and intelligence chiefs are all saying that Israel should not invade, then Netanyahu is engaging in utter folly.

[GPDP]

If Israel's own military and intelligence chiefs are all saying that Israel should not invade, then Netanyahu is engaging in utter folly.

Could he actually do it anyway, then? If so, can we chalk this up to the irrational whims of a madman, or is there something else at play? I mean, we talk a lot about the material interests behind imperialism after all, but I can't see him doing something so damn risky unless there's something we're not being told, or he's actually that personally determined to wipe Iran off the face of the earth.

[Invader Zim]

Could he actually do it anyway, then? If so, can we chalk this up to the irrational whims of a madman, or is there something else at play? I mean, we talk a lot about the material interests behind imperialism after all, but I can't see him doing something so damn risky unless there's something we're not being told, or he's actually that personally determined to wipe Iran off the face of the earth.

I think he can and will do it, because while the military chiefs may not like it, they will do as they are told. And I think we have been told why - because Israel wants to retain a regional monopoly on nuclear arms.

[GPDP]

Ah, but of course.

Any chance this escalates beyond just Iran and Israel? I can't imagine a large scale war in an already-unstable region will go without repercussions for Israel's neighbors, puppets of the US though they may be.

[ВАЛТЕР]

because Israel wants to retain a regional monopoly on nuclear arms.

Yup.

If Iran or another state hostile to Israel in the region suddenly was a nuclear power, then Israel would be forced to do a lot more negotiating than it would be willing to do otherwise. It couldn't flex its muscle as it pleases.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Another thing, this would be a catastrophic move on Israels part. One because it would entail a high risk war that has no guarantee of being a successful operation, two because it would drive oil prices to impossible levels, and three it would almost certainly result in a huge increase in antisemitism worldwide because once again it would be: "those darn Jews are at it again".

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

I don't think the american and zionist imperialist give jack-shit about anti-semitism, as long as they control the area.

[ВАЛТЕР]

I don't think the american and zionist imperialist give jack-shit about anti-semitism, as long as they control the area.

Yeah, I agree. However, it would be a really shitty outcome for the Jews who have shit-all to do with the imperialist polices of Israel.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Yeah, I agree. However, it would be a really shitty outcome for the Jews who have shit-all to do with the imperialist polices of Israel.

Indeed, I get asked daily to justify the actions of those fuckers, and I ain't even religious (nor call myself a jew, but my family does)

[Andropov]

Could he actually do it anyway, then? If so, can we chalk this up to the irrational whims of a madman, or is there something else at play? I mean, we talk a lot about the material interests behind imperialism after all, but I can't see him doing something so damn risky unless there's something we're not being told, or he's actually that personally determined to wipe Iran off the face of the earth.
I don't think Israel will "wipe Iran off the face of the earth".
Any war will most likely involve aerial bombardment which will target key infrastructure around the country, everything from roads, bridges, factories, electrical grids, airports, hospitals, schools, damns etc.
It will effectively cripple the country and set it back years which is there only intention.
It will inevitably drag Hamas and Hizbollah into the conflict as well but that will play into Netanyahu's hands and create the siege mentality in Israel that they flourish under.

[JPSartre12]

Ah, but of course.

Any chance this escalates beyond just Iran and Israel? I can't imagine a large scale war in an already-unstable region will go without repercussions for Israel's neighbors, puppets of the US though they may be.

When you consider the fact that the U.S. supports Israel, Russia's relationship with Iran and Syria, all the geopolitics that come into play with that region, etc I can easily see the rest of the world being dragged into an Iran-Israel conflict.

Countries would have to pick a side - who do they support? Israel, or Iran? Lines would be drawn, things would get ugly, and it could have the potential to spread outwards into a World War, I think.

[Positivist]

Indeed, I get asked daily to justify the actions of those fuckers, and I ain't even religious (nor call myself a jew, but my family does)

People are ridiculous.

[Positivist]

When you consider the fact that the U.S. supports Israel, Russia's relationship with Iran and Syria, all the geopolitics that come into play with that region, etc I can easily see the rest of the world being dragged into an Iran-Israel conflict.

Countries would have to pick a side - who do they support? Israel, or Iran? Lines would be drawn, things would get ugly, and it could have the potential to spread outwards into a World War, I think.

The problem here is that Russia isn't all that militarily strong. Foreign policy "experts" like to toy with the idea that an Israeli-Iranian would give the US the chance to finally go to war with the Russians but really this is highly unlikely. Following the collapse of the USSR, the former Soviet States experienced an economic crisis exceeding the great depression in intensity as well as multiple regional military conflicts. Russia is still in the process of recovering from these events and though a long way has been made since Putin seized power, Russia is still no where near close to strong enough to take on the US in a conflict outside of the former USSR. Most likely there will just be a rise in tensions between the two governments.

[JPSartre12]

The problem here is that Russia isn't all that militarily strong. Foreign policy "experts" like to toy with the idea that an Israeli-Iranian would give the US the chance to finally go to war with the Russians but really this is highly unlikely. Following the collapse of the USSR, the former Soviet States experienced an economic crisis exceeding the great depression in intensity as well as multiple regional military conflicts. Russia is still in the process of recovering from these events and though a long way has been made since Putin seized power, Russia is still no where near close to strong enough to take on the US in a conflict outside of the former USSR. Most likely there will just be a rise in tensions between the two governments.

You're so right ;) I'm referring more to the hostile political climate that it could potential create on the global stage, which could, in time, get unnecessarily violent and lead to a war. I'm not saying that WW3 would spring up the moment Israel attacks Iran, but it could set the stage for some nasty international fights in the near future.

[eyeheartlenin]

I've lost count of the number of times we have heard this before, and it never happens. The whole thing reminds me of Eva Gollinger, a shill for great leader Chávez, who repeatedly predicted an attack by G.W. Bush on "socialist" Venezuela.

Surely Netanyahu is bright enough to grasp that any Israeli attack on Iran would expose his country to intensified attacks on its civilian population.

For opponents of Zionism in the US, a very small number of people, I think, the results of an Israeli attack on Iran would be positive, since many Americans would be angry that the US was being dragged into a war in the Middle East, manipulated into a military conflict by Israel.

When the possibility of an Israeli attack on Iran was being discussed on US public radio yesterday, there was one journalist who doubted that Israel could actually wipe out the entire Iranian nuclear research effort. Which would, I guess, mean a very long war against Iran. Maybe the political cost to Obama, who, like most other US politicians, is a big friend of the Zionist State, would force the US to distance itself from Israel, but I'm not holding my breath 'til that happens.

[~Spectre]

Israel won't do it. There's too much to lose and very little upside. They simply leak this for:

1) Leverage in the negotiations.
2) Domestic consumption. Netanyahu wants to sound tough.
3) Part of Israeli foreign policy is to seem a little unstable, so as to project "strength".

[Invader Zim]

I don't think Israel will "wipe Iran off the face of the earth".
Any war will most likely involve aerial bombardment which will target key infrastructure around the country, everything from roads, bridges, factories, electrical grids, airports, hospitals, schools, damns etc.
It will effectively cripple the country and set it back years which is there only intention.
It will inevitably drag Hamas and Hizbollah into the conflict as well but that will play into Netanyahu's hands and create the siege mentality in Israel that they flourish under.

I doubt they would be quite so openly insidious given that their power is built entirely on the continued favour of foreign powers - namely America. And regardless of what whatever the US Military-Industrial complex may think of the issue (probably support such action) it would have negative implication for Israeli support among the US population which in turns effects Israel's political capital in the US. So I imagine that they would indeed attack the infrastructure, but specific parts of it to do with military R&D and key industries, because as noted this is about crippling Iran's nuclear ambitions.

[Prof. Oblivion]

because Israel wants to retain a regional monopoly on nuclear arms.

Pakistan and India have weapons, though they're further east.

Turkey is a NATO weapons sharing state.

But you're about right, yes.

[Andropov]

Firstly this talk of possibly a world war is ridiculous.
Russia and China and who ever the tin foil hat conspiracists think might role in behind Iran would never be capable of competing with the USA never mind its Allies. Russia and the Chinese would never risk open war with the states over Iran, they are not crazy.
It could possibly lead to raised tensions and some possible proxy swipes at each other but it will not lead to all out open war no matter what Israel or the yanks do in Iran.

I doubt they would be quite so openly insidious given that their power is built entirely on the continued favour of foreign powers - namely America. And regardless of what whatever the US Military-Industrial complex may think of the issue (probably support such action) it would have negative implication for Israeli support among the US population which in turns effects Israel's political capital in the US. So I imagine that they would indeed attack the infrastructure, but specific parts of it to do with military R&D and key industries, because as noted this is about crippling Iran's nuclear ambitions.
Zim your intelligent enough to know at this stage that Israel will never package it as it is. Israel as always will either use some minor incident or create a black ops operation against the state of Israel or possibly a false flag operation. When tensions are sufficiently ratcheted up through the corporate media and public opinion is a mixture of shock and outrage from some perceived aggression against "Democratic" Israel and of course the reports follow with some obligatory sound bites from some loony Jihadist wanting to wipe Israel off the map.
After this process which could only take a few days Israel will begin their "offensive defense".
This as I posted earlier in my eyes will encompass far more than just strikes against Iran's nuclear facilities because lets face it, its got sweet fuck all to do with their nuclear ambitions and everything to do with the fact that Iran is committing the mortal sin of economic nationalism. When Iran's infrastructure is pounded into oblivion another country is crippled that dare play outside the west's sphere of influence and another message to those countries that do not play by the west's rules.

[cb9's_unity]

This is deeply intertwined with what is going on in the U.S elections. I understand that historic relations in the middle east and other international relations are setting the stage for what is going on, but what is specifically happening in U.S. politics is extremely important.

I think Netanyahu knows that at this moment he is guaranteed as much support from the U.S. as he is ever going to get. Obama and the whole democratic establishment can't afford to look weak on foreign policy. He can't appear to be waffling during a major conflict in the middle east. Beyond that a war will almost completely erase the problems the GOP has with Romney's taxes, the war on women, medicare, and a whole bunch of other issues they are getting hammered on. The liberal left is also in no position to form a serious anti-war movement as too many are too scared of Romney to risk questioning Obama. Domestically there is no down side to supporting Israel as much as possible.

This may explain the discrepancy behind Netanyahu and his generals. As a politician he understands that a perfect storm is brewing that will ensure total U.S. support of whatever Israel does. Romney and Obama are certainly imperialist to their core, but normally they would still like to avoid being bossed around by Israel. For the next few months being bossed around by Israel is completely in their own self-interests.

[Hexen]

Maybe the entire thing is just sabre rattling to influence the US elections?

Basically what I'm getting here is "If the US doesn't attack Iran then Israel will" as the means of getting the Presidential Candidates against Iran?

[cynicles]

I think if they do attack Iran they'll wait to do it later and this is just laying the ground work further. They'll wait to further make the Syrian government, Assad's or whomever is in control, more complient as well as for Hamas to make it's final transition to eing apart of the Saudi axis. I'd expect they're also taking any opportunity to lessen Hizbullah's influence aswell.

[Beeth]

Indeed, I get asked daily to justify the actions of those fuckers, and I ain't even religious (nor call myself a jew, but my family does)

Tell them to back off.:thumbup1:

[A Marxist Historian]

This is deeply intertwined with what is going on in the U.S elections. I understand that historic relations in the middle east and other international relations are setting the stage for what is going on, but what is specifically happening in U.S. politics is extremely important.

I think Netanyahu knows that at this moment he is guaranteed as much support from the U.S. as he is ever going to get. Obama and the whole democratic establishment can't afford to look weak on foreign policy. He can't appear to be waffling during a major conflict in the middle east. Beyond that a war will almost completely erase the problems the GOP has with Romney's taxes, the war on women, medicare, and a whole bunch of other issues they are getting hammered on. The liberal left is also in no position to form a serious anti-war movement as too many are too scared of Romney to risk questioning Obama. Domestically there is no down side to supporting Israel as much as possible.

This may explain the discrepancy behind Netanyahu and his generals. As a politician he understands that a perfect storm is brewing that will ensure total U.S. support of whatever Israel does. Romney and Obama are certainly imperialist to their core, but normally they would still like to avoid being bossed around by Israel. For the next few months being bossed around by Israel is completely in their own self-interests.

This is all true and to the point. Obama would desperately like Netanyahu not to attack Iran at least until after the elections, as that would be the best electoral gift Romney could receive, and preferably not at all as he knows how badly that would backfire. But, for the next few months, he is in no position to keep Netanyahu on a leash.

Still, I don't think it would happen, because though it would be politically very convenient for Netanyahu if it worked, it might well not work, and even if it did work it would be disastrous for Israel in the long run.

Netanyahu is sufficiently irresponsible as a politician to do it anyway, but Israel is not the US. "October surprises" don't go over there, as the Zionists, whatever else one has to say about them, are practical people.

With his generals, and the former heads of both Mossad and Shin Bet actually publicly opposing the idea as disastrous for Israel and maybe not even doable, Netanyahu will be kept on his leash. Not in Washington, but in Tel Aviv.

-M.H.-

[cb9's_unity]

Hopefully you are right (I can't say I know much about politics within Israel). All the major decisions over the next few months will take place entirely within Israel

Something else I just realized is that Israel starting a war would rile up evangelical conservatives big time. If Romney's mormonism is going to hurt him anywhere its going in the same demographic that would be most supportive of a war in the middle east (many evangelicals are the most fanatic zionists).

One might wonder if Romney would actively be pushing Netenyahu to go to war. Romney has already promised to push 'defense' spending up to 5%. He could promise Israel a pretty hefty chunk of that pie.

[A Marxist Historian]

Hopefully you are right (I can't say I know much about politics within Israel). All the major decisions over the next few months will take place entirely within Israel

Something else I just realized is that Israel starting a war would rile up evangelical conservatives big time. If Romney's mormonism is going to hurt him anywhere its going in the same demographic that would be most supportive of a war in the middle east (many evangelicals are the most fanatic zionists).

One might wonder if Romney would actively be pushing Netenyahu to go to war. Romney has already promised to push 'defense' spending up to 5%. He could promise Israel a pretty hefty chunk of that pie.

Ah yes, the ol' "October Surprise" all over again. I wonder if Reagan's people really did meet with the Iranians in 1980 before the election to mutually stage manage things a bit, as a lot of folk were claiming back in the "Iran-Contra" era? I never did hear a final determination of whether that was fact or fancy.

But as much as that might suit Romney's interests, there are obviously a lot of high up Israelis in the military and the intelligence services who don't think an Israeli strike on Iran would serve Israeli interests. Indeed it seems pretty much like their consensus. And they carry a lot of weight there.

-M.H.-

-M.H.-