Forbes editor: Shaming the poor ‘makes us great’

[Yuppie Grinder]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/18/forbes-editor-shaming-the-poor-makes-us-great/
Lines like "Why can’t we make someone feel embarrassed for living off of others? Why can’t business people do that in the United States? I think it’s moving away from what makes us great." are why I drink.

[m1omfg]

Two words: Alaskan gulag.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Boo!

Has anyone seen this one:

In Praise of Slums: why millions of people choose to live in urban squalor (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/08/13/in_praise_of_slums)

Damn these folks are well educated absolute idiots.

[brigadista]

our time will come - then the smiles will drop

[Positivist]

This woman is filth.

[Rational Radical]

FOX news is just utter disinformation,i stopped being surprised by their outlandish /irrational comments along time ago.

[ВАЛТЕР]

We'll let her pick which lamppost she gets to hang from.

Because we care.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Hah, here's another Forbes article arguing that poor people shouldn't be allowed to vote http://www.forbes.com/sites/billflax/2011/08/04/if-on-the-dole-why-do-you-still-get-to-go-to-the-poll/. I normally just roll my eyes at this stuff, but it weird that these guys are so desperate to remove the release valve that their elite idols put into place for a reason. Oh well.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

I actually think that "Why can’t we make someone feel embarrassed for living off of others" could be used in reverse referrence as capitalists exploiting or 'living off of' their workers, for the sake of irony.


FOX news is just utter disinformation,i stopped being surprised by their outlandish /irrational comments along time ago.

I still cannot believe the amount of idiots who ascribe to that pathetic excuse for a news network.

They attacked Pokemon for 'supporting evolution'! :laugh:

[citizen of industry]

I actually think that "Why can’t we make someone feel embarrassed for living off of others" could be used in reverse referrence as capitalists exploiting or 'living off of' their workers, for the sake of irony

That's what I literally thought when I read the headline, so I was confused. I thought it meant "why can't we make the capitalists feel guilty for living off of others." So the title vs. the first post was confusing.

[Yuppie Grinder]

I actually think that "Why can’t we make someone feel embarrassed for living off of others" could be used in reverse referrence as capitalists exploiting or 'living off of' their workers, for the sake of irony.


That's exactly why it's infuriating. Before social liberalism and the modern welfare state, capital was criticized for living off other's work. Now it's just the opposite.

[Lynx]

“What a shame that we’ve erased shame from society,” Tamny said. “Why can’t we make someone feel embarrassed for living off of others? Why can’t business people do that in the United States? I think it’s moving away from what makes us great.”
Lots of people feel ashamed for having to use Food Stamps. And he's disappointed that less than 100% feel this way?

[DaringMehring]

What a surprise. The paid sycophants of the bourgeoisie, who fill up our media like cholesterol filling arteries, have determined that it is precisely the work they do, creating a culture of praising the bourgeoisie and attacking the poor, that "makes us great."

These media people aren't just parasites, they're the fleas of parasites. Every dollar they're paid is a dollar society would be better off spending elsewhere. How is that for something to be ashamed of?

[Die Neue Zeit]

There's productive labour and there's unproductive labour. There's a lot about work in "journalism" that is, unfortunately, unproductive.

[RedHammer]

This is revolting, and what's even more revolting is the large number of working class folks who will gobble this up.

We need to effectively counter this kind of cultural poison; we need to put pride back into the working class. That's a critical step in empowering the working class.

[Prometeo liberado]

Damn these folks are well educated absolute idiots.
Educated yes. It's the "well" part that I have a problem with. Educated to think that the current state of affairs is somehow heavenly mandated and thus "just" regardless of the facts or contradictions.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Being a worker isn't something to take pride in. Workers are the revolutionary class due to their relationship with the means of production, not because of some altruistic or pure character traits they poses. They operate the means of production, and so it follows that they could cease to operate them and cause the production of capitalism to collapse. And there probably isn't anything about receiving welfare that one could take pride in either.

I don't know what the correct way to fight this kind of attitude would be aside from attacking capitalism and it's false scarcity itself, but taking pride is wasting 40+ hours or your life every week or living at the mercy of the state doesn't seem like a good idea.

[RedHammer]

Being a worker isn't something to take pride in. Workers are the revolutionary class due to their relationship with the means of production, not because of some altruistic or pure character traits they poses. They operate the means of production, and so it follows that they could cease to operate them and cause the production of capitalism to collapse. And there probably isn't anything about receiving welfare that one could take pride in either.

I don't know what the correct way to fight this kind of attitude would be aside from attacking capitalism and it's false scarcity itself, but taking pride is wasting 40+ hours or your life every week or living at the mercy of the state doesn't seem like a good idea.

It's a critical step in empowering the working class and affirming our worth. Make no mistake: the battle is cultural and psychological, too. The bourgeoisie imposes their own values and attitudes onto the working class and the working class must, in turn, reject them and impose their own. I'm not saying we should become idealists; rather, we should affirm our own worth as a class.

[Ocean Seal]

Man sometimes I think that they want to make this "shooting the bourgeoisie" thing easier on the conscience of their executioners.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Our worth as a class comes from our ability to disrupt production, which is to say our ability to liquidate ourselves as a class and all the others. Taking pride in producing the society that exploits us seems counter-productive. I think that's known as workerism among Leninists.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Our worth as a class comes from our ability to disrupt production

No it is not. The working class isn't all about withdrawing labour, which is logically opposite to the notion that labour creates surplus value. The class for itself is about its ability to organize politically for political change in the here and now.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I mean capitalist production. Obviously I eagerly await my opportunity to put on my blue overalls and report to my assigned work posting in the coming People's Republic :rolleyes:

[Lowtech]

I actually think that "Why can’t we make someone feel embarrassed for living off of others" could be used in reverse referrence as capitalists exploiting or 'living off of' their workers, for the sake of irony.



I still cannot believe the amount of idiots who ascribe to that pathetic excuse for a news network.

They attacked Pokemon for 'supporting evolution'! :laugh:

Absolutely. The rich consume more than they produce, each one the equivalent of a whole community of 'non working' people, mathematically speaking.

[Yuppie Grinder]

This is revolting, and what's even more revolting is the large number of working class folks who will gobble this up.

We need to effectively counter this kind of cultural poison; we need to put pride back into the working class. That's a critical step in empowering the working class.

there are two problems with this
1. It doesn't make sense to take pride in a humiliating position you hope to abolish.
2. Most self-described Communists are students from privileged or at least middle class families.

[#FF0000]

I think going on about "WORKING CLASS PRIDE" is just a short step away from creating some mythic ideal of the worker and extolling the "values" and stereotypes that oppress workers (e.g. acting like hard work is some positive or redemptive act or something, praising stereotypical 'common sense' thinking and anti-intellectualism) and acting like the working class is some monolithic entity which is definitely is not.

Then again i can see the value in 'working class pride' insofar as encouraging people to not allow themselves to be shamed for being broke as a joke, you know what I mean?

[Positivist]

Our worth as a class comes from our ability to disrupt production, which is to say our ability to liquidate ourselves as a class and all the others. Taking pride in producing the society that exploits us seems counter-productive. I think that's known as workerism among Leninists.

No one is saying that people should take pride in having to work a shit job 40 hours a week, or not have any meaningful relationships, or having your favorite activity being sitting in front of a Tv. What everyone in this thread has been saying is that some rich *****y journalist has no place to tell us that us and the members of our communities should be ashamed for taking the crumbs that the workers throw at us. Its not about being proud to be a worker, its about not blaming ourselves for being one.

[Lowtech]

No one is saying that people should take pride in having to work a shit job 40 hours a week

I do. I live hand to mouth and being an exploited worker, i consume less than I produce. I contribute more to humanity than any of the 400 richest people or any person that consumes more than they produce (aka the rich).

I should have pride in that.

[Positivist]

I do. I live hand to mouth and being an exploited worker, i consume less than I produce. I contribute more to humanity than any of the 400 richest people or any person that consumes more than they produce (aka the rich).

I should have pride in that.

Definitely comrade that is exaclty what I meant. Pride in that you are so productive but not pride in that the fruits of that production is stolen by the capitalists, and certainly not shame that sometimes when the capitalists take too much you might accept free welfare services. That's what's so agravting about this entire article. This woman has the audacity to say that the poor are stealing from the rich and should be ashamed of it!

[Ele'ill]

I'm not proud to be productive because my productivity isn't measured on my terms.

[Silvr]

I do. I live hand to mouth and being an exploited worker, i consume less than I produce. I contribute more to humanity than any of the 400 richest people or any person that consumes more than they produce (aka the rich).

I should have pride in that.

Working a shit job to help line your boss's pockets isn't really contributing to humanity, though.

[Lowtech]

I'm not proud to be productive because my productivity isn't measured on my terms.

However, what you should be proud of is the fact you are economically sane, that you reflect true productivity, as your consumption does not negate your contribution.

Not only do the rich negate thier own contribution (if they contribute at all), they consume so much that they negate the work of thousands around them; they are an economic liability; an invalid burden on the rest of us

The economic behavoir of the elites is not only wrong , it is mathematically invalid

[Yuppie Grinder]

I think going on about "WORKING CLASS PRIDE" is just a short step away from creating some mythic ideal of the worker and extolling the "values" and stereotypes that oppress workers (e.g. acting like hard work is some positive or redemptive act or something, praising stereotypical 'common sense' thinking and anti-intellectualism) and acting like the working class is some monolithic entity which is definitely is not.

Then again i can see the value in 'working class pride' insofar as encouraging people to not allow themselves to be shamed for being broke as a joke, you know what I mean?
I agree with this except that workers are for the most part right to be weirded out by far-left privileged intellectuals whose gibber-jabber has nothing to do with their life experiences or actual liberation.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

*Adds the editor's name to The List*

To quote the Party official in Dr Zhivago - "Your attitude is noticed, you know, Oh yes, it's been noticed"

[Ocean Seal]

I think going on about "WORKING CLASS PRIDE" is just a short step away from creating some mythic ideal of the worker and extolling the "values" and stereotypes that oppress workers (e.g. acting like hard work is some positive or redemptive act or something, praising stereotypical 'common sense' thinking and anti-intellectualism) and acting like the working class is some monolithic entity which is definitely is not.

Then again i can see the value in 'working class pride' insofar as encouraging people to not allow themselves to be shamed for being broke as a joke, you know what I mean?
I mean for what its worth, the notion that we work hard and are still thrown out to the curb by the capitalists is useful in getting people to ask more.

[Regicollis]

I think workers should be proud of what they do. There is nothing shameful or degrading in building a house, cooking a burger or teaching a seventh-grader. On the contrary these are all useful, productive things that improves the lives of real people. Workers should be proud about that and use that pride to stop the unproductive bosses from stealing the value of their labour from them.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Of COURSE a Forbes writer would say this. The crazy thing of course is that his wealth would not exist if it was not for the blood, sweat and toil of these "poor" he wants to shame. Basically, he wants them materially impoverished AND morally to blame for their own situation. It is the only way to keep them trapped in a state of self-loathing false consciousness, forever hoping to be the next successful small businessman and blaming themselves for their failure to do so.

[Salyut]

“Why can’t we make someone feel embarrassed for living off of others? Why can’t business people do that in the United States? I think it’s moving away from what makes us great.”

I can't wait till we can party like its 1871/1917.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I think going on about "WORKING CLASS PRIDE" is just a short step away from creating some mythic ideal of the worker and extolling the "values" and stereotypes that oppress workers (e.g. acting like hard work is some positive or redemptive act or something, praising stereotypical 'common sense' thinking and anti-intellectualism) and acting like the working class is some monolithic entity which is definitely is not.

Then again i can see the value in 'working class pride' insofar as encouraging people to not allow themselves to be shamed for being broke as a joke, you know what I mean?

In one word, it's called "dignity." Working-class dignity is a good thing to promote.

[SkeptikalSteven]

I do believe the woman has a point in relation to the lack of actual nutritional value. I'd imagine the amount of tokens you get is limited, and wasting it on deserts seems like a bad, obesity inducing idea.