Great Pictures of Che Guevara

[FarfromNear]

Che Guevara and his communist ideals. The same ideals that are restriciting progress in all those undeveloped third and fourth world countries
of Central and South America. This is how it ends.




http://www.celebritymorgue.com/che-guevara/che-alarma.jpghttp://www.celebritymorgue.com/che-guevara/che-guevara.jpg

[DeadMan]

How could you post such trash? Your fascist right wing ideas aren't any better then the communist ideals the Che was supporting. Maybe you should be the asshole lying on the board not him....fucking HITLER wannabe!

DeadMan.

[lostsoul]

he has not ended...by physically killing che, the imperialists have created a new more powerful enemy which they could not contain.

They killed che in an attempt to silence him, but look around at the youth all over the world, they are still hearing his voice loud and clear. and how can che be stopped now? he cannot.

so don't say shit like "this is how it ends"...think of it as "this is how the struggle continues..."

[DeadMan]

No, he doesn't get it. He has been brain washed the capitalist fat cats that drive his economy and make him poor. He is talking out of his ass because if he knew what he was talking about and if he saw the other side of it all, he wouldn't be posting that. And out of shear respect for the dead, nobody should post those.

I've seen capitalist at it's best and at it's worse and I would rather pick a third world country where money is no value. Money, in itself, has absolutely no value. It is paper with ink. Paper with ink will be nothing once humanity moves on. We once used goods, then gold; we are now on money, soon we will move on and the capitalists will hit it hard.

DeadMan.

[lostsoul]

don't give him a reaction..

here's a jay-z quote that may help you:
"never agrue with a fool, because from far people can't tell who's who"

maybe we see something in people like che that he does not, or he see's something that we do not.

[FarfromNear]

So tell me , Jay Z is rich as crap, he is a capitalist pig right?? He made his money through free market economy and through Capitalism. YOu shouldn't listen to Jay Z and others like Puff Daddy who have made millions thanks to that sytem that you all hate.

How is it that you are soo blinded to not realize that communism has never worked. You guys have'nt even lived in countries with socialistic mindsets and communist ideals, or dictatorships, you wouldn't even know. You are all talking out of pure ignorances and most of all jealousy towards the rich, and the US, as you call them imperialists.

Instead of focusing on others wealth and being jealouse of them, thinking of how it is unfair that they have and we don't, we should find ways of making money, use the free market system so that we too can be rich and hopefully help people out. Don't dwell on the past, dont embrace ideals that have been known to fail over and over again. Do I have even have to give examples?? I'm sure we all have.

All i know is that it is a shame that a lot of you are here posting against those sytems in which you live in and you enjoy the fruits of. The United States is an obvious success of Capitalism, and the rest of the Worl is basically jealouse of their success. I'm not American so I understand that jealousy better. I lived it, but I am glad that I learned.

[FarfromNear]

You are right, by the way, we see him differently. You see a great revolutionary man, who helped in saving Cuba. Well I see reality, I see Cuba how it really is. I know people from Cuba, they will tell you how Cuba really is. I also see Che as being a man who fought in Guerrillas, those same Guerrillas that have really messed up Countries like Columbia. I lived in a country were we had Guerilla Warfare for almost more than 30 years and we still see the results of that. Most of you have probably never lived through any of that so you really haven't seen the effects of all that. You really have to be in someones shoes to understand it.

[FistFullOfSteel]

If the people you know from Cuba,If they are cappies,no wonder they hate Cuba then

[FarfromNear]

Well, of course they are cappies, how else are they going to leave? They are not allowed to leave you know. They have to escape. By the way, I met some kids for a Cuban junior basketball team when In a Panamerican Tournament, and I heard stuff that they would say. The kids would come out and say the hated Cuba or anything because they are sheltered from knowing how life is in other places, but they did tell me about what they had and didnt have.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

Dead man you are a fool.You say fascism is "no better then communism".wtf?you think communism is an 'evil ideology' or something?dumb ass.also,dont diss jay-z.Try growing up in the ghetto with few options and see what you would do.At least he is making something out of his life.

[Edward Norton]

You talk of how communism denies democarcy, well what was Bolivia in 1967???

A military dicatorship and why do you celebrate Che's death in Bolivia, most probably due to the fact that people like you hate the idea of people taking up arms to free themselves of military tyrannies and petty US backed despots. You just can't stand the idea of power going into the hands of the people, rather you would like to see people enslaved by multi-national corporations and the local tyrranies that give them a free hand.

And yes the US is RIGHTLY blamed for many problems in Latin America, because it had a hand in them. Look at the CIAs involvement in Chile 1973, its illegal mining of Nicaraguan ports, condemmed by the UN in1983 and many other genocides and war crimes besides.

However I DON'T hate the US people, a lot of che-lives members are US citizens, however I do HATE the US government in the same way most people hate Hitler and his regime.

Cuba may not have multinational investment and off shore banking like say Panama, but who gives a fuck about 'investment' and 'economic growth' as that in reality means allowing companies to use cheap labour, plunder resources that don't belong to them and in further take away peoples ability to decide for themselves. Cuba however has the best Health care system in tge Americas, ONLY behind Canada, but still Cuba (in your eyes a 'poor' 'bankrupt' nation) has a better healthcare system than the US (in your eyes an 'example' of 'success'). Cuba has better literacy rates, health care, nusery care, standards of living than any other nation in Latin America.

Even though, as an anrcho-communist, Cuba lacks democarcy (I mean TURE democracy, not the bullshit they have in Europe and the US) Cuba has the LEAST amount of killings of trade unionists in the Americas (US included) and has the lowest levels of political violence.

Compare that to capitalist Colombia, where you have stae sanctioned killings of around 1000 people are year!

And lets look at who kills the most in the Americas

*General Pinochet(Chile 1973-1990) 5000 killed.
*General Videla (Argentina 1976-1981) 30000 killed.
*General Galtieri (Argentina 1981-1982) 2000 killed.
*General Barrientos (Bolivia 1964-1969) 2000 killed.
*General Rios Montt (Guetemala 1982-1983) 150000 killed.
*Brazilian military junta (1964-1985) 20000 killed.
*General Somoza (1956-1979) 10000 killed.

Castro's Cuba has no large figures like these!

Most of these victims were indian peasants mainly women and children, as these military regimes had a habit of killing innocent civilians when there is opposition to their tyrranies.

Again Castreo does'nt kill innocent women and children!

ALL these regimes had CIA/US backing/funding/support!

These is ironic as Generals Pinochet and Videla both killed US CITIZENS as well in their orgies of murder.

None of these capitlalist regimes did anything for their own people (other than kill them of course) so why dont you shut the fuck up, stop criticising a society that actually wants to better itself and intead vent your rage agianst the real culprits.

Though of course I'm being idealistic/too hopeful, as you are too fucking stupid (as demonstrated by your low intelligence, lack of an arguement and of having no konwledge of the facts) to realise how stupid and pathetic you really are!

[DeadMan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 06:39 PM
So tell me , Jay Z is rich as crap, he is a capitalist pig right?? He made his money through free market economy and through Capitalism. YOu shouldn't listen to Jay Z and others like Puff Daddy who have made millions thanks to that sytem that you all hate.
...I download my music thank you...

DeadMan.

[leftist manson]

dead man
you really are fuckin stupid, sick, necrophilous and really dead
you hardly know anything other than your yuppie upwardly-bound money craving ,firstworld automaton lifestyle.
you shouldn't have written things like that when you don't know anything
us really backs stupid tyrranies. and through fuckin coups they throw out the peoples' champs and bring in their fucking military dictators.
they are scared of anything progressive going on in the third world just as kazzafi, zulfiqar ali bhutto and shah faisal were planning to make an islamic bank to cease multinational encroachments in their economies, bhutto was given a dearh sentence through an american ciabacked coup which brought that military motherfucker general zia ul haq who at once made some anti india terrorist nations and wreaked havo on pakistan's economy
and look at those terrorist organizations now
they send men to fight for al-qaeda and now mother fucking western cappies like u are scared of their name
[SIZE=14]alqaeda is comin to get uuuuuuuu

[DeadMan]

Originally posted by leftist [email protected] 19 2003, 11:48 PM
dead man
you really are fuckin stupid, sick, necrophilous and really dead
you hardly know anything other than your yuppie upwardly-bound money craving ,firstworld automaton lifestyle.
you shouldn't have written things like that when you don't know anything
us really backs stupid tyrranies. and through fuckin coups they throw out the peoples' champs and bring in their fucking military dictators.
they are scared of anything progressive going on in the third world just as kazzafi, zulfiqar ali bhutto and shah faisal were planning to make an islamic bank to cease multinational encroachments in their economies, bhutto was given a dearh sentence through an american ciabacked coup which brought that military motherfucker general zia ul haq who at once made some anti india terrorist nations and wreaked havo on pakistan's economy
and look at those terrorist organizations now
they send men to fight for al-qaeda and now mother fucking western cappies like u are scared of their name
[SIZE=14]alqaeda is comin to get uuuuuuuu
What the fuck are you talking about? First of all, I'm not afraid of Al-Queda. I know that the US throws out a good government and throw in a dictatorship. Yes, I have seen it in Bowling for Columbine and then looked a little into it. Maybe I can't see it all because I live in a first world country, but I see how capitalism is fucking up the world and you can disproove that one until you lived in Canada for a while. Canada has been pussy whipped by the US and it's ruined our economy and self image.

DeadMan.

[nezvanova]

You guys have'nt even lived in countries with socialistic mindsets and communist ideals, or dictatorships, you wouldn't even know.

That's not neccicarily true of all of us. I personally haven't, but my father did (his was born in czechoslovakia) and told me about the downsides and benifets of the communist regieme. I just have to ask, have you ever lived in a country with "socialist mindsets and communist ideals"? If you look at our own government (i'm referring to Canada and the US. their the only countries I can rightly speak for from experience), has many socialist influences. What pulled the U$A out of the great depression was Roosevelt ensuing socialst elements into the capitalist system.

And I don't see Che as merely a guerrilla leader, and a communist idealist. I see him as someone who strove to end oppression. As Nelson Mandella said "Che stands as an inspiration for all those who value freedom."

Edit: why didn't you just post this in opposing ideologies....thats what it's there for...

[FarfromNear]

Originally posted by Edward [email protected] 19 2003, 11:17 PM
You talk of how communism denies democarcy, well what was Bolivia in 1967???

A military dicatorship and why do you celebrate Che's death in Bolivia, most probably due to the fact that people like you hate the idea of people taking up arms to free themselves of military tyrannies and petty US backed despots. You just can't stand the idea of power going into the hands of the people, rather you would like to see people enslaved by multi-national corporations and the local tyrranies that give them a free hand.

And yes the US is RIGHTLY blamed for many problems in Latin America, because it had a hand in them. Look at the CIAs involvement in Chile 1973, its illegal mining of Nicaraguan ports, condemmed by the UN in1983 and many other genocides and war crimes besides.

However I DON'T hate the US people, a lot of che-lives members are US citizens, however I do HATE the US government in the same way most people hate Hitler and his regime.

Cuba may not have multinational investment and off shore banking like say Panama, but who gives a fuck about 'investment' and 'economic growth' as that in reality means allowing companies to use cheap labour, plunder resources that don't belong to them and in further take away peoples ability to decide for themselves. Cuba however has the best Health care system in tge Americas, ONLY behind Canada, but still Cuba (in your eyes a 'poor' 'bankrupt' nation) has a better healthcare system than the US (in your eyes an 'example' of 'success'). Cuba has better literacy rates, health care, nusery care, standards of living than any other nation in Latin America.

Even though, as an anrcho-communist, Cuba lacks democarcy (I mean TURE democracy, not the bullshit they have in Europe and the US) Cuba has the LEAST amount of killings of trade unionists in the Americas (US included) and has the lowest levels of political violence.

Compare that to capitalist Colombia, where you have stae sanctioned killings of around 1000 people are year!

And lets look at who kills the most in the Americas

*General Pinochet(Chile 1973-1990) 5000 killed.
*General Videla (Argentina 1976-1981) 30000 killed.
*General Galtieri (Argentina 1981-1982) 2000 killed.
*General Barrientos (Bolivia 1964-1969) 2000 killed.
*General Rios Montt (Guetemala 1982-1983) 150000 killed.
*Brazilian military junta (1964-1985) 20000 killed.
*General Somoza (1956-1979) 10000 killed.

Castro's Cuba has no large figures like these!

Most of these victims were indian peasants mainly women and children, as these military regimes had a habit of killing innocent civilians when there is opposition to their tyrranies.

Again Castreo does'nt kill innocent women and children!

ALL these regimes had CIA/US backing/funding/support!

These is ironic as Generals Pinochet and Videla both killed US CITIZENS as well in their orgies of murder.

None of these capitlalist regimes did anything for their own people (other than kill them of course) so why dont you shut the fuck up, stop criticising a society that actually wants to better itself and intead vent your rage agianst the real culprits.

Though of course I'm being idealistic/too hopeful, as you are too fucking stupid (as demonstrated by your low intelligence, lack of an arguement and of having no konwledge of the facts) to realise how stupid and pathetic you really are!
First of all, I am not for big government, I am against it. Im against "local tyrannies".

People blame the US for their economic misfortunes, what you said has nothing to do with those Countries economies.

Cuba does have all those rates. Cuba had 80% literacy before Castro so it was not too much work. Best health care? Riight...Have you gone to a Cuban hospital? You dont hear of political violence in Cuba because everybody is affraid of Castro. Like you said, they lack democracy. They can't do shit. They don't have freedom.

Pinochet was a piece of crap, but he did do something, he got the 'Chicago Boys' to fix the economy in Chile. The 'Chicago Boys' were Chileans who studied at the University of Chicago(Pro-Capitalism). Chile is by far the best country in South America, economically.

We will never know how many Castro killed till he is out of Cuba. You dont know if Castor killed innoncent people. He has never been in a civil war. All those other dictators were in power during a civil war. The death counts will never be known of who was really peasents, and were guerillas. They were fighting guerillas who used tactics of fear, where they would kidnap innoncent people(tourists), kill innoncent people, bomb infrastructures, attack villages, etc. The dicators were counterattacking.

Let me critized my own society in which I grew up in. You say im stupid. Your probably living in the US putting arguements out of inflated facts. When i say that i mean that the numbers have been inflated by left wing organizations conducting those researches. You say that I dont know, well I lived in Latin America. My parents lived through Dictators, one of them which you mentioned in your killing facts. YOu don't know shit because you did not live it. You assume things. The news is not always like it seems. My best friends were Colombian, Guatamalans, and Peruvians. We all learned about the history behind all this, we all lived it. We read about it in the news, we saw it in our streets. You can's say that you know more about it than me, post your facts, it doesn't matter. I lived it, ive heard and seen both sides of it. You read it on biased news, I experienced it. I just argue against you because it is that mentality that doesn't allow these countries to improve. I love my country and wish the best for it, I would really like to help it but first we have to rid ourselves of such way of thinking. You say your hopeful, be hopeful. It's hard for me to be hopeful because I lived there, and I have seen the way of thinking and we have to change the culture in that sense in order to better our countries. I understand the problem in Latin American countries more than you do. So why dont you just shut the fuck up!

By the way, the pictures were inappropriate and I apologize, but I just hate to see people make an idol of a person who did all those things that contributed to some of the messes in these countries. I also hate to see how you all back the system which has screwed up, and is continuing to screw up our countries. Thats why I argue with you, I just want whats best for Latin America. You ideals are simply not the right ones. We've had those ideals, in fact, the majority of Universities in Latin America are socialistic and use communistic books. Thats why the majority of us have/had that mentality, because that was what was fed to our brains. Latin America has the same mentality and it will be hard for us to improve. Look at Argentina, a country that is so beatiful, yet soo messed up. What Latin America needs is a change of mentality for it to really start to improve. You don't understand that mentality because you either are not from there and did not live there, or because you are a latin with that same mentality, because it is what you learned.

[EneME]

DeadMan...try to read some posts and learn about communism before you trample on it. I'm trying to reserve my anger, because I HAVE lived in a world of guerilla fighting and I remember laying on the floor of my house in the middle of the night and my family dying in it all. Don't you understand what guerilla's fight FOR? They are fighting FOR THE PEOPLE...the US backed corporations, rich land owners hate communism cuz they can't exploit the people nor make money from it. Latin America is MESSED UP because of the shit you are supporting, a free market that free's the US from using Human Rights or Enviromental Rights. YOU must have never lived in poverty in Latin America because you don't know what the majority of Latin America lives like...YOU don't know what its like to have ABSOLUTLY NOTHING that you have NOTHING to LIVE for cuz you can't even SURVIVE. Guerillas are civilians who are tired of the oppression of the US gov't, US corporations, rich land owners, military that they rather die FIGHTING than their ultimate fate of STARVING to death...
And sure Cubans can't leave the island, but how about not being able to EAT and having to eat DIRT? Like they do in Nicaragua, or having to sell your CHILD because they were sick and you can't pay their medical bills like a child in India. These aren't fictional stories, but actual biographies of children....
And I'm sorry but you are SICK for putting up these pictures... Che was a warrior who wanted only equality for the poor in Latin America. I wouldn't ever post up someone's cadavar picture, even if it was Pinochet. Personally, I take it as an offense cuz my family were guerillas would u post their pictures? :angry:

[LuZhiming]

How is it that you are soo blinded to not realize that communism has never worked.

How is it that you are soo blinded to not realize that most Communist countries have been devastated by the U.S.? How is it that you are soo blinded to not realize that Communism brought Russia into the Second World, while Capitalism has driven them right back into the Third World? How is it that you are soo blinded to not realize that after having a protectorate by the United States, and then virtually right after, becoming the victim of all sorts of terrorist actions (Which were largely sabotage), being the victim of an invasion, and having an embargo and blockade all from the United States, Cuba has turned itself into one of the most sucessful Third World countries in the world?


United States is an obvious success of Capitalism

Considering the excessive advantages of the U.S., and many of the actual means that lead to its formation and strengthening, it doesn't prove much to use it as an example.


and the rest of the Worl is basically jealouse of their success.

You're right, no one gives a shit about the years of devastation brought by the U.S. Why would anyone care about that?

[Fidelbrand]

Farfromnear, u are too far from being near to a human being~

Get a grip, get real, get fucked! :D

[Faceless]

Riight...Have you gone to a Cuban hospital? The child mortality rate in Cuba is lower than in many parts of the U$ itself and the doctor:patient ratio is better than any other Alliance for Progress state.

How is it that you are soo blinded to not realize that communism has never worked. You, my friend, do not know what communism is. It is about democracy, not dictatorship, and it is about freedom and in that sense the Paris Commune was closer to a "dictatorship of the proletariat". Do you know what modern Russia and Eastern Europe are like? Before you ask, "Do you know anyone who has lived in a socialist state?" the answer is yes. Have you heard of the murder of journalists recently in the Ukraine who investigate the government? What about the censorship of the Russian press? As for living standards, well they've plumetted for all but the Czech Rep. who has been reintergrated into the west. Poland is leading the rest but it is still behind the Soviet era conditions.

[Maynard]

The pictures are an obvious ploy yo get a reaction.


The same ideals that are restriciting progress in all those undeveloped third and fourth world countries
of Central and South America. This is how it ends.

How is "Communism" holding back progress in undeveloped third and fourth world countries of Central and South America, when there is no communism societies ? Explain your claim. All these countries have capitalist policies,. so in fact it's your ideology which has to answer for this lack of progress , not mine. The people of Latin America especially the working class are now beginning to spot the fallacies in capitalism and are increasingly turning more and more leftist, because they have seen what the policies of Neo Liberalism have done to there nations and are looking for alternatives now.


So tell me , Jay Z is rich as crap, he is a capitalist pig right?? He made his money through free market economy and through Capitalism. YOu shouldn't listen to Jay Z and others like Puff Daddy who have made millions thanks to that sytem that you all hate.


Well hopefully no one here listens to Puff Daddy but who are you to tell us what we can't and cannot do ? We will listen to music because we appreciate the music because all musicians derive their income from capitalism no matter how much it is.


How is it that you are soo blinded to not realize that communism has never worked. You guys have'nt even lived in countries with socialistic mindsets and communist ideals, or dictatorships, you wouldn't even know. You are all talking out of pure ignorances and most of all jealousy towards the rich, and the US, as you call them imperialists.

Communism has never been achieved and if it won;'t, you have nothing to worry about. What makes you so sure that none of us here haven't ? If you haven't, what makes you more suitable to comment than any of us ?
If we are talking out of pure ignorance then again, you have nothing to worry about , so why bother being here ?
It's hardly jealously, I am part of the Middle class, so was Karl Marx so was Che, so was Vladamir Lenin. They could all have been rich but there is much more to life than how much money you have. Perhaps we believe in it , so true equality can be achieved for everybody.
If the US is not imperialists, than what are the current adventures in Iraq, Afghanistan ? Tea Parties ?


All i know is that it is a shame that a lot of you are here posting against those sytems in which you live in and you enjoy the fruits of. The United States is an obvious success of Capitalism, and the rest of the Worl is basically jealouse of their success
An obvious success ? Where 2 million people don't even have homes ? 70 million don't have health insurance ? A poverty rate of 12.8 percent ? Tell these people what a success it has been for them.
You think hatred of the United States is jealously ? Really ? That's rather a simplistic view would you not say ? Do you not think there are other reasons beyond this ?


They are not allowed to leave you know
"During the last forty years close to 900,000 people migrated legally to different countries. It is estimated that around 130,000 Cubans live in Latin America (in Venezuela, Mexico, Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Argentina and Chile); approximately 37,000 reside in Europe (mostly Spain, Italy and Germany) and more than 1,000 in the rest of the world, for example, Canada and some of the former socialist Eastern European countries such as Russia." Proves this to be wrong.Here (http://lanic.utexas.edu/~sela/AA2K2/ENG/docs/Coop/migra/spsmirdi12-02/spsmirdi12-3.htm)


The kids would come out and say the hated Cuba or anything because they are sheltered from knowing how life is in other places, but they did tell me about what they had and didnt have.

Oh really ? Well, there we have it. If some kids told me they hated the United States because there history lessons only involved the United States and they only had a Nintendo 64 not a gamecube, I would conclude that the United States was a failure. Completely.

"But some two hundred miles away, in Havana, Miami's breathless countdown seems more wistful than justified by circumstance. Despite its grave problems, Cuba looks nothing like Romania. Restaurants are full; teens dance the merengue at outdoor concerts; women wear bright, skimpy sundresses; and students flock to poetry readings on the lawns of Lenin Park. Cubans do gripe, for they feel deprived of everything from razor blades to onions. But few blame Castro for that or -- more to the point -- are ready to defy his still pervasive and rigid control to show that they do. "

Here (http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/90jun/castro.htm)


Have you gone to a Cuban hospital?
Have you ? They may not be up to the standards of advanced capitalist countries but at least everyone can afford togo there, which is not the case in the United States.


He has never been in a civil war
Castro has never been in a civil war ? Riiiiiigght.


They were fighting guerillas who used tactics of fear, where they would kidnap innoncent people(tourists), kill innoncent people, bomb infrastructures, attack villages, etc.
Capitalist governments would never dream of doing such thing now would they ? What about Vietnam ? Korea ? Iraq ?


YOu don't know shit because you did not live it.
Well, Eneme has lived through it as he/she ( sorry, don't know which) has pointed out but you have not lived in Cuba I assume, yet you still make plenty of comments about that.


I just hate to see people make an idol of a person who did all those things that contributed to some of the messes in these countries
Got rid of US backed dictator, which allowed for improvements in the standards of living for the majority of Cubans is a bad thing ?

[DeadMan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 08:46 AM
DeadMan...try to read some posts and learn about communism before you trample on it. I'm trying to reserve my anger, because I HAVE lived in a world of guerilla fighting and I remember laying on the floor of my house in the middle of the night and my family dying in it all. Don't you understand what guerilla's fight FOR? They are fighting FOR THE PEOPLE...the US backed corporations, rich land owners hate communism cuz they can't exploit the people nor make money from it. Latin America is MESSED UP because of the shit you are supporting, a free market that free's the US from using Human Rights or Enviromental Rights. YOU must have never lived in poverty in Latin America because you don't know what the majority of Latin America lives like...YOU don't know what its like to have ABSOLUTLY NOTHING that you have NOTHING to LIVE for cuz you can't even SURVIVE. Guerillas are civilians who are tired of the oppression of the US gov't, US corporations, rich land owners, military that they rather die FIGHTING than their ultimate fate of STARVING to death...
And sure Cubans can't leave the island, but how about not being able to EAT and having to eat DIRT? Like they do in Nicaragua, or having to sell your CHILD because they were sick and you can't pay their medical bills like a child in India. These aren't fictional stories, but actual biographies of children....
And I'm sorry but you are SICK for putting up these pictures... Che was a warrior who wanted only equality for the poor in Latin America. I wouldn't ever post up someone's cadavar picture, even if it was Pinochet. Personally, I take it as an offense cuz my family were guerillas would u post their pictures? :angry:
When did I trample communism? Never. In fact, if you have read some of my last posts, you would of seen how I have been supportiong Communism and Socialism. I do know that guerillas are civilians with arms fighting the current system (Usually some dictatorship installed by the US or some corporation that they can puppet master). I'm sorry to hear that you lived in conditions in which death was around you, and within your family. And since when is backing up a communist/socialist world messing up Latin America. If there was a fight in Canada and I see that I could be used, I would go and fight, but there isn't one so no, I cannot experience that and stop giving me shit about it. If you don't like the fact that I am now supporting communism and socialism more then before then well hate me. I couldn't care less if you hate me, since about everyone else on this board does.

DeadMan.

[Pingu]

yo farfromnear

maybe is cuba poor because the international trading ban of the capataliist organisations

[Edward Norton]

YOu don't know shit because you did not live it. You assume things.

Well look who is doing the assumptions!

I have not lived in Latin America, but I have lived in the Middle East, which is similar to 1970s Latin America in many ways, right-wing dictatorships, heavy US involvement and societies dominated by wealthy powerful landowning/business families.

So don't you FUCKING make assumptions and then accuse me of them!


When i say that i mean that the numbers have been inflated by left wing organizations conducting those researches.

Ohh yes, the United Nations, human rights groups and witnesses, all dangerous communist organisations aiming for the destruction of the human race. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:. Get fucking real!


You say that I dont know, well I lived in Latin America. My parents lived through Dictators, one of them which you mentioned in your killing facts.

I don't really know what your trying to prove here? So what if you lived in a dictatorship, because if you were supportive of that dictatorship then I am sure you and your parents had quite a nice time in Latin America. I can certainly see you and your family/friends lived in a little enoclosed world with the establishment of the nation your lived in. You never got to see the suffering, poverty and hardship these tyrannies imposed on the general mass of the people.


We all learned about the history behind all this, we all lived it. We read about it in the news,

Well of course the news in Latin America is going to be anti-rebel/democracy as it is under total censorship of whatever dictatorship you lived in. Junta controlled media is hardly going to be objective in this sense is it, come on even you CANNOT be this stupid?


You read it on biased news, I experienced it.

Funny that, a moment ago you just said that you found the news a reliable source of information. You are now no longer making any real sense and have ended up contradicting your OWN arguements, wahhay I don't even really need to argue against you as you'll do the job for me :D .

If, however you mean US/European media, then I will say two things:

*First I prefer using as many sources as possible from many different countries to ensure I get as truthful news as possible and to prevent bias, plus I prefer the internet as a news source, due to less bias and commercial interests than say TV.

*Secondly, if you are spouting that baseless and age old right-wing conspiricay theory of the mass media being a liberal/left monolith with anti-US bias, then fuck off, because that is just delusional paranoia. The US media esp. FOX NEWS and ABC and CNN are all pro-US military ventures, pro-US government and have NEVER offered REAL criticism of any US administration.


I love my country and wish the best for it

What nation is that by the way?


People blame the US for their economic misfortunes, what you said has nothing to do with those Countries economies.[QUOTE]

To be fair and to demonstrate that my hostility to capitlalism is not just a cover for a phobia for the US, a large ASSORTMANT of individuals and institutions are behind the problems of ALL of the 3rd world.

The IMF, World Bank, G8, USA, UK, EU, Japan, NAFTA, FTAA and a whole host of other monoliths are behind the horrors of GLOBAL capitalism.

The IMF will urge Latin American governments to slash public health spending, educational programs and other social projects leaving MILLIONS destitute, starving and with no future and little chance of a life.

Yet the US does COME IN when a Latin American nation refuses to go along with this, such as the US backed coup in Venezuela in April 2002 or the threat of sanctions/punishment if other nations refuse to the 'free-market line'

When the US and capitalists talk of freedom, they MEAN the freedom to do whatever you want in the pursuit of financial gain, whether it be slave labour, child labour, killing trade unionists, destroying local environments and filling the coffers of dictatorships/corrupt capitalist 'democracies' which allow them access in the first place.

They don't EVER talk of the REAL freedoms people NEED and WANT. Freedom from poverty, starvation, illiteracy, diesease, homelessness and the freedom to live in a clean and safe environment. These rights are FAR greater than some right to vote in an 'election' for some corrupt politician who will fuck you up once he gets elected and ONLY listens to the will of those who PAID for him, not ELECTED him.

Riight...Have you gone to a Cuban hospital?


First learn to spell. Have you gone to a Cuban hospital, no you haven't, so what makes you such an expert!

Ohh, don't come up with my 'Cuban friends say this and that', because I will not listen to a bunch of rich lazy kids from Miami, who also never went to Cuba, who had corrupt Mafia backed traitors for parents. Asking these Miami 'Cubans' for their opinions on Cuba is like asking a Neo-Nazi for their opinion on Black or Jewish people.

Pinochet was a piece of crap, but he did do something, he got the 'Chicago Boys' to fix the economy in Chile. The 'Chicago Boys' were Chileans who studied at the University of Chicago(Pro-Capitalism). Chile is by far the best country in South America, economically.


Oh yeah, those twats who follow the insane 'economist' Milton Friedman. This really shows you up. Even capitalists back off from this nutcase. Friedmans theory of 'monetarism' really went down well. I mean that arch warrior of the free market Margaret Thatcher even had to ABANDON this policy due to the fact it fucked up the economy. Yeah, Milton Friedman, great if you want to see your country go into debt and high inflation in a blink of the eye.

And you also again spill the beans on the horrors of capitalism with your own words.

If Milton Friedman was such a mircale worker :rolleyes: :rolleyes: , then why on earth did it take 5000 dead and a genocidal tyrant like Pinochet to implement it. The answer is because NO ONE in Chile wanted it. They voted for Allende and wanted his system not Friedmans/Pinochets. Just shows you that Friedmans path CAN ONLY be done through a dictatorship, because the people would NOT stand for it if given the chance.

Look at Argentina, a country that is so beatiful, yet soo messed up.[QUOTE]

Yeah, messed up because of free market economics. It never had a socialist government and ALL of it's problems were down to corrupt US backed politicians (military and civilian) slavishly listening to idioits like Friedman on economic advice. You can see Argentina as a PRIME example of what happens when you give power to market force and the corporation who sustain them.

Besides, your pathetic whining is irrelevant, as the people of Latin America are saying that they have had enough! Uprisings in Argentina, Bolivia, Venezuela and the Zapatista movement in Mexico all point towards a communitarian and more just and equal future for Latin America. Soon the evils of free trade/ business competition and the corrupt tyrranies they need to exploit are all going soon.

[nezvanova]

I only know what I've lived in, and what i've seen. i've seen capitalism fail people. I can't speak for latin america, or for Cuba, and I gladly listen to anyone who will make a civil debate regarding these subjects. but considering how you approached the subject, mocked our views, and insulted us with petty swear words, you've lost all credibility. I'm sure we'd all be more open to people with opposiong beleifs if they didn't aproach us like that. If what you have to say is so important, than show it to us intelligently, not immaturly like you did.

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 02:36 PM
The pictures are an obvious ploy to get a reaction.




Exactly! So why are we giving this guy an audience. Hes comes on here, insults us and then wants our pity for the bad things hes seen.

I have to deal with the Capitalistic Bush cattle here in the US, 24/7, that soaks up his every word. If you want to pity someone pity me!

Have you ever noticed Bush sounds like a evangelical TV preacher?

[el_profe]

YOU know what is really sad. EDWARD NORTON has a problem with these pictures.

But if I was to post pictures of a rich person dead he would love to see them. AS he has told me 3 times in different post, that rich people deserve tobe killed? yet i dont know what his definition of rich is, if someone has a car are they rich?

[FarfromNear]

First of all, I did not approach you with swear words, deadman insulted and I replied. Second, I never said communism itself, I said that the communistic and socialistic ideals and mindsets are what hold those countries back. Third, I dont like Bush, Debora Aro cant talk because she probably lives way better than most of us. Enjoying life in capitalistic US.

We never supported Dicatorships and we did see all the poverty, all I want is to help.

I never said news was reliable. Don't put words in my mouth.

Second , CNN is leftist, 20% of it is owned by a rich Prince from Saudi Arabia or something.

How do you get those freedoms you mentioned? With money. The US is by far the best place to live in. It is also the richest. Socialism and communism have been known to fail. From Communal Settlements in the 1800's, to Vietnam, to North Korea, USSR. Look at Red CHina, it is finally starting to embrace Capitalism and the country is bettering itself. Look at North Korea and South Korea. North, still communist, look at South Korea, it is doing real well. I had a friend who recently went to Korea, he told me that their economy was getting strong.

Rich lazy Cubans from Miami? If they are Rich, the I am Bill Gates.


Uprisings in Latin America, yeah true, they just dont know. Look at the illiteracy rates. When people vote for a candidate because he gave them a microwave, then wow, they really must know. But they are uprsising because they understand economics and politics, youre right. Youve met them. Youve seen the ignorance.

To your responses about my opininon on communism. Well, I also want for everybody to have equality, it is not about money. By wanting equality you have to be unfair to get it? IT is simply not right to take from someone who worked all his life to get what he has. The way for others to make money is through free market economy, if they werent soo blinded, then it could be achieved.


Communism in Cuba is freedom, freedom to do what you want. Freedom to see the word, to travel. They live great, they eat well, they live well, they have nice belongings, they love it there, thats why they are jumping on rafts to the US. But youre right.

To you Americans. You might say that I dont know whats best for my country but I do. I have seen both Latin America and the US. You americans have to appreciate what you have. The living standards of Americans are sooo much better than those of the other countries in the World. People in the US dont appreciate what they have because of their ignorance. I mean that, you are ignorant to living conditions in other countries. You simply dont know about it.
I who told me that his familyattented college in the US and i had a friend was poor. He lived in a trailer home, he drove his own car, he had fashionable clothes, he played Golf, he attended a UNiversity, yet he was soo poor.

Take a look at the poor in other countries. I have met families that are really really poor. I met this one family who had 7 kids and they all lived an a space about the size of an average living room. There roof was of aluminum and leaked constantly, their floor was of dirt, they sleeped on the floor with something they called a blanket, the kids were sick because apparently one of the kids got sick and it spread, the family makes about 60 dollars a month to feed all those mouths, the kids are mal nourished, the living conditions are basically terrible. That is poverty, even worse, kids living in the streets because they have no home. You see that everyday. Some of you might say , well its the employeers fault because they dont pay them enough. Well, thats what the employer can afford, at least he is able to give them a job. The real problem is the economy, we need to better the ecnomoy in order to increase wages. Then the gov't would have more money for public funding, and living conditions would be way better.


You know what Norton, I should stop caring. Ill just find my way of making money and I will help others, but because I want to help, not because the gov't is forcing me to help. I want to work hard for the right reasons, I dont want to be forced into labor so that you can enjoy. So do what you want.

[Edward Norton]

Second, I never said communism itself, I said that the communistic and socialistic ideals and mindsets are what hold those countries back.[QUOTE]

You are contradicting yourself. If communism itself in not a problem, then how come it's ideals are a problem?

We never supported Dicatorships and we did see all the poverty, all I want is to help.


But in many instances dictatorships were the ONLY way capitalism could survive in many nations, because the only way multinational corporations could continue to operate was by having to crush the general will and aspirations of the people of those respective nations.

So what are you saying? That if the people democratically decide to abolish capitalism, whether at the ballot box, revolution or uprisings, then they should have thier democracy taken away from them?

I never said news was reliable. Don't put words in my mouth.


So how did you hear about all this bullshit about the people trying to exercise their democratic rights being the reason Latin America is held back?

Second , CNN is leftist, 20% of it is owned by a rich Prince from Saudi Arabia or something.


:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

You are either trying to crack a joke or you are trying to win the prize for the person who speaks the most shit!

Ohh, yeah CNN is sooooooo leftist and anti-business as it is owned by that RICH ENTREPERNUREAL BUSINESSMAN who also happens to be a PRINCE in one of the worlds most RIGHT WING MONARCHIES!!!

What a delusional dickhead!

You really are no diffrerent from the paranoid neo-nazis who keep talking about the world being run by a jewish elite. Yeah it makes it nice and simple to debase your opponents and avoid arguement and debate, by claiming everyone is against you!

How do you get those freedoms you mentioned? With money.


Err no.

The society I aim for is one where people are BORN with freedoms and do not have to buy freedom or fight for them.

From Communal Settlements in the 1800's,


Evidence... The American Indians (some tribe anyways) had communal systems. The only reason there system was abolished was due to them being wiped out by gangs of racist thugs otherwise known as 'cowboys'.

Vietnam, to North Korea, USSR.


I am an anarcho-communist, which means I believe in communal and shared property whilst all political/social/economic decisions are made by ALL people through mass debate and local assemblies. My beliefs consider that professional politicians and the like have NO NEED for existence because the people will make their OWN decisions.

So to try and associate me with totalitarian Stalinist regimes such as NK USSR and Vietnam are futile as I do NOT support such regimes in the same way I do not support South Korea or the US.

Look at Red CHina, it is finally starting to embrace Capitalism and the country is bettering itself.


Again China was STALINIST so it was not a communist state in the first place. All that is hppening is that businessmen (Chinese and other) now make the decisions instead of some party 'chief'.

What has NOT changed is that the Chinese people have not benefited either way, they had NO power before and have NO power now!

Also China may be 'better' for some CEO or some Shareholder in Tokoyo or New York and is better for some corrupt Chinese politician, however Chinese children are still forced to work and have no education because they need the money to survive and many hundereds of Chinese people DIE in their workplace due to LACK of rules for worker safety, all in the name of the 'free market'.

had a friend who recently went to Korea, he told me that their economy was getting strong.


Again use FACTS and the WHOLE situation instead of some 'friend' who has a cushy well of lifestlye and who only has a good life because some other have to work and suffer so he can do so.

Rich lazy Cubans from Miami? If they are Rich, the I am Bill Gates.


A stupid reaction, but typical from someone who AVIODS the points I make and instead comes out with shit.

Actually open your eyes and see these Miami 'Cubans' for what they really are, drug running mobsters who complain that their illegal owings in Cuba were given to the people who WORKED on them whilst they did fuck all, other than kill and push drugs.

Uprisings in Latin America, yeah true, they just dont know. Look at the illiteracy rates. When people vote for a candidate because he gave them a microwave, then wow, they really must know. But they are uprsising because they understand economics and politics, youre right. Youve met them. Youve seen the ignorance.


So your NO BETTER than a Stalinist or a fascist, ohh I don't like what the people want so I will just ignore them, if that doesn't work then shoot them!

Besides why is there mass illiteracy, because children have to work for their own basic survival because they were born into poverty. They work for such shit pay that they never will get an education, but ohh no, we can't spend state money and send them to school, thats 'communism' :rolleyes:

True these 'illiterates' may not read the 'Economist' every week or they may not follow Wall Street. But hey these people live in the REAL world. They ahve to WORK for their very small subsistence levels of pay, whilst some overpaid parasite in some boardroom makes all the money that these 'illiterates' work for.

They rebel because they know capitalism is a TOTAL failure. They know FIRSTHAND the workings of capitalism and they suffer for it. So they ahve more of say in this issue than some economist/CEO/shareholder who lives in an enclosed fantasy world and does not do a days REAL work in their lives.

The only ignorant one here is you dickhead!

By wanting equality you have to be unfair to get it?


Whats fair:

*Having a system that provides ALL humans with ALL needs for physical. emotional and mental survival. Complete with people making ALL decisions with no ruling elite, no corruption, no coercion, no politicians, no bribing. A system which aims not just for the survival of humanity nut it's progress to the next evolutionary stage. (TRUE communism, ie: a stateless and communal soceity with no leaders, no force, no ruling elite, whether businessmen or politicians)

*Having a system that appeal to the WORST apects of human nature, greed, violence, war, racism/all other social phobias. Having a system that states people born into wealth should have a headstart in society and that people who are born poor should accept their fate and have no ambition but to survive and live like an animal.

IT is simply not right to take from someone who worked all his life to get what he has.


I aim my criticism at LARGE companies and not at the small traders/self employed, as they are a different class and do not really play any big role in capitalisms horrors.

Small traders ironically suffer from capitalism anyway as they see their small business dirven to bankruptcy by some large corporation that pushes it's way in and can monopolise their way in becuase corporate law favors the largest companies, which always give money to whatever politician is in power, so they buy the law and our so-called 'democracy'.

Many British farmers have ended up taking their own lives as their farms, ususally owned/worked by their forefathers for generations have been pushed aside in a matter of days so some large supermarket company can monoplise that market in their neverending quest for irrational greed.

Ohh, no but we cannot have anti-monoply laws because that again the freedom for a company to make super-profits is far more important than thousands of farmers right to have/earn a livining and survive.

Communism in Cuba is freedom, freedom to do what you want. Freedom to see the word, to travel.


Bit of a hypocrite aren't you. The US forbids it's citizens to TRAVEL to CUBA.

Why, the US going get scared that it's own people will see Cuba is not the 'evil poverty striken state about to invade the US' that the CIA and those Miami 'Cubans' say it is?

Besides real communism (non-Leninist anarcho-communism) is very different from what Cuba is. I would like to see another REVOLUTION in Cuba, where the people abolish central government and make all the decisions.

Cuba is no way my ideal state, unlike you ("the US is the best system") I do not praise Castro, like the rest a dictator, but no more a dictator than every other world leader.

But I do reconise that SOCIAL standards in Cuba are better than they were before 1959 and at least ALL Cubans have FREE healthcare and FREE university education, unlike the US, which has appaling poverty and other social ills.

To you Americans.


I am not American. I personally do not consider myself anything else other than a human being. I also live in Britain.

The living standards of Americans are sooo much better than those of the other countries in the World.


Even Europe which is all capitalist has better standars than the US. Most Blacks, Hispanics, American Indians and many White people live in poverty without decent housing (and in many cases NO housing), no free healthcare system so if you can't pay you can sit back and enjoy the wonders of a broken leg or cancer, many Americans are unemployed and have no support for it etc.......

The US is the worst in the 1st World for living standards, even Japan, in heavy reccesion and 10 million unemployed manages to keep standards way above that of the US.

Take a look at the poor in other countries. I have met families that are really really poor. I met this one family who had 7 kids and they all lived an a space about the size of an average living room. There roof was of aluminum and leaked constantly, their floor was of dirt, they sleeped on the floor with something they called a blanket, the kids were sick because apparently one of the kids got sick and it spread, the family makes about 60 dollars a month to feed all those mouths, the kids are mal nourished, the living conditions are basically terrible. That is poverty, even worse, kids living in the streets because they have no home. You see that everyday. Some of you might say , well its the employeers fault because they dont pay them enough. Well, thats what the employer can afford, at least he is able to give them a job. The real problem is the economy, we need to better the ecnomoy in order to increase wages. Then the gov't would have more money for public funding, and living conditions would be way better.


It is the companies fault for exploiting people with no choice to work for them, because the other option is starvation, so they can do whatever, pay whatever they like.

Get real, most, if not ALL companies that invest into the 3rs world are multinational corporation, you don't get a small family business moving to Indonesia. So they CAN afford to pay them much better and to give them proper training to become something better than slaves.

But the corporations DON'T, so I am not going to be fooled by that old crap that they care for their workers.

In fact the corporations attitude to their workers can be best summed up in a quote SS chief Hienrich Himmler made with regards to Jewish/Russian slave labour:

"We do not care about how many men or women die in the effort to build a trench or to deliver supplies to our troops. A hundered, A thousand, A million, it does not matter how many die, all that matters to us that they dig their trench or deliver those supplies. After that their existence is of no use to us."

Plus yes it is also the government of whatever country fault. They let in these corporations, in full knowledge that they aimed to enslave their people and make of with whatever resources, regradless of social or environmental damage.

But oh no, earlier you said that people who remove these incompetant governments were 'ignorant' and 'illiterate', you insult the very people you claim to protect, no wonder your movement is a lost cause, supported by no one (excpet a few CEOs, dictators, politicians who get one too many bribes and a few lunatics like yourself). Who would in their right minds put up with patronising dickheads like you!

But hang on, I thought you hated social programs and free health and free education, all socialist in your eyes, yet you demolish your own arguements again when you admit that the free market cannot deliver peoples needs.

not because the gov't is forcing me to help.[QUOTE]

In communism (real communism, not the stalinst crap in the USSR) there are NO governments so you can't be force to do anything.

Helping others is a basic trait in the quest for human survial, just like an animal defending/helping other in the pack. It is a natural state of being like eating and breathing, no one forces you to breath yet you do otherwise you die. Capitalism is self destructive as it will be more than happy to see the planet destroyed and humans die en-masse, for what? Short term profits, the right to go around flashing your wealth whilst others starve and die.

But people are now coming to their senses and this stupidity of freedom of wealth and of the market will be replaced with the freedom of all humans to live and not to exist in the shadow of exticntion.

[che's long lost daughter]

If you think that we would get annoyed by posting a "great" picture like that, you are wrong!!!! Seeing a "dead" che picture only reminds us of how much he sacrificed (to the point of sacrificing his own life) just to fight for what he believed in. And, we are not jealous of America. Who would be jealous of a country whose own citizens hate?

Well, next time try harder ;)