I leave in a very conservative area HELP!

[Philosophos]

As I say in the title I live in a part of Greece where there are lots of people who want to bring back the dictatorship of Papadopoulos (Χούντα).

At the same time there lots of right-winged conservatives that don't even want to hear about socialism(socialism in Greece is a loosened up capitalism that's what PASOK a political party did to us all these years) and even more they don't want to listen about communism.

Also we have lots of people voting for Golden Dawn (the neo-nazi party for anyone that haven't heard of it). That is a quite new phenomenon I'd like to say and I have absolutely no idea why is happening since the nazis killed a whole village of 4000 people in a single day in my area.

Anyway since I'm in this very difficult possition because I am left I would like you to give me some advices on how should I try to change the mind of some of my peers about communism to make them more open minded to new ideas.

I have lot's of ideas and lot's of arguments to change their minds but they don't seem to understand so I thought that there might be something wrong with me. I would like to add that these people hate communism because they learned it from their parents and their parents learned it from their grandparents because the dictator Papadopoulos hated the communists. There is no other reason JUST THAT!

I'm not talking about brain washing I'm talking about showing them the truth about socialism, communism and capitalism so they can at least stop being capitalists.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[Oswy]

As I say in the title I live in a part of Greece where there are lots of people who want to bring back the dictatorship of Papadopoulos (Χούντα).

At the same time there lots of right-winged conservatives that don't even want to hear about socialism(socialism in Greece is a loosened up capitalism that's what PASOK a political party did to us all these years) and even more they don't want to listen about communism.

Also we have lots of people voting for Golden Dawn (the neo-nazi party for anyone that haven't heard of it). That is a quite new phenomenon I'd like to say and I have absolutely no idea why is happening since the nazis killed a whole village of 4000 people in a single day in my area.

Anyway since I'm in this very difficult possition because I am left I would like you to give me some advices on how should I try to change the mind of some of my peers about communism to make them more open minded to new ideas.

I have lot's of ideas and lot's of arguments to change their minds but they don't seem to understand so I thought that there might be something wrong with me. I would like to add that these people hate communism because they learned it from their parents and their parents learned it from their grandparents because the dictator Papadopoulos hated the communists. There is no other reason JUST THAT!

I'm not talking about brain washing I'm talking about showing them the truth about socialism, communism and capitalism so they can at least stop being capitalists.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Fascism could be called 'crisis capitalism' seeing as it the political ideology which always seem to come to the defence of the social order which would otherwise be maintained by capitalism. You can't remove people of their ignorance about capitalism and fascism overnight, unfortunately, but you can reject and resist every assertion or action which is offered up to defend them. As for talking to your friends then I'd recommend you make use of David Harvey's book The Enigma of Capital which although doesn't touch on Greece very much (it was published 2010) offers up some excellent analysis about how capitalism colonises societies and abandons them when they have been sucked dry.

[Comrades Unite!]

Revolt.

If you are a Marxist Leninist,Trotskyist,Stalinist or Maoist then set up a Vanguard party and use Guerrilla Warfare tactics to overthrow the Government whilst executing GD.

Good Luck!

[Philosophos]

Revolt.

If you are a Marxist Leninist,Trotskyist,Stalinist or Maoist then set up a Vanguard party and use Guerrilla Warfare tactics to overthrow the Government whilst executing GD.

Good Luck!

Hurreeeeey!!! Was it that easy from the beginning? :unsure:
Could you show me any links for military propaganda? If I don't ever respond to this post again I'm a goner :lol:

[The Idler]

If there's no other reason they hate communism, and you are showing them the truth, there should be no problem. Many satellite countries that experienced Soviet influence do not want a return to that. Then again, East Germany seems to harbour some nostalgia for it.

[RedParty]

If there's no other reason they hate communism, and you are showing them the truth, there should be no problem. Many satellite countries that experienced Soviet influence do not want a return to that. Then again, East Germany seems to harbour some nostalgia for it.
There is alot nostalgia in former socialist countries:

When polls show that in Eastern Europe still a significant part of the population their situation during communism was better. The results change from country to country and from poll to poll: the East Germans took 57 percent that the GDR was good [2], found 64 percent of Hungarians living better under communism [3], 46 percent of Ukrainians regretted the collapse of Soviet Union [4], 63 percent of Romanians found life better under communism [5] and 66 percent of Slovaks found life better under communism [6]. Part of the explanation is to be found in high expectations have not come true. [3]

[ckaihatsu]

I have lot's of ideas and lot's of arguments to change their minds but they don't seem to understand so I thought that there might be something wrong with me. I would like to add that these people hate communism because they learned it from their parents and their parents learned it from their grandparents because the dictator Papadopoulos hated the communists. There is no other reason JUST THAT!

I'm not talking about brain washing I'm talking about showing them the truth about socialism, communism and capitalism so they can at least stop being capitalists.

Thanks in advance for your replies.


Use this board as a resource -- if there are any *specific* arguments or issues that you come across that you're not 100% confident in responding to, post them here and let the rest of us see what we can come up with.

[Manic Impressive]

There is alot nostalgia in former socialist countries:

When polls show that in Eastern Europe still a significant part of the population their situation during communism was better. The results change from country to country and from poll to poll: the East Germans took 57 percent that the GDR was good [2], found 64 percent of Hungarians living better under communism [3], 46 percent of Ukrainians regretted the collapse of Soviet Union [4], 63 percent of Romanians found life better under communism [5] and 66 percent of Slovaks found life better under communism [6]. Part of the explanation is to be found in high expectations have not come true. [3]
In Britain there is nostalgia for the pre 1980's Labour party. In France I'm sure there are some who would say the same of the Socialist party there. What does this tell us? That some people prefer nationalization and a welfare state to laissez faire capitalism. But that doesn't say anything about class consciousness or socialism.

[bluepilgrim]

I just joined and this is more than I intended to get into right away, especially as a first post, but this issue is fundamental to the problems we face. It boils down to 'most people cannot be convinced of things logically -- the mind tends to operate on emotion and beliefs. George Lakoff talks about this some, but not deeply. There is also information to be had form research in cognitive neuroscience.

Best bet, to start, is to study propaganda techniques (Lipmann, Edward Bernays, and those following), and what brainwashing and advertising is about. Most people just do not do well with critical thinking, and that includes leftists although the rightests more so (See Bob Altmeyer's book The Authoritarians -- free to read at his site).

Much of this is not just about the brain tends work (from the way it developed in evolution), but about fear and insecurity (augmented by capitalism and authoritarian environment), and, of course, upbringing, conditioning, and propaganda. If I want something from you, and/or want to control you, then it's to my advantage to convince you that you absolutely need me and are dependent on me. (cf Stockholm Syndrome). If you don't buy my deoderant you will smell and the girls will hate you; if you don't vote for me and support my army the terrorists will get you.

If you want to change the consciousness and thinking of people then you have to learn what and how they think, and it's not obvious, nor rational for the most part -- even among good critical thinkers. And that's aside from the problem we have just because we are not nearly smart or perceptive enough to understand physical reality or biology very well.

In essence, you have 'trick' people into waking up and learning -- it's like deprogramming cult members. Capitalism IS a sort of cult, after all. It's tought to educate people so they can be free.

[The Idler]

best first post ever