Prison Population USA

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

With all the shaming of the Gulag penal system in the USSR, i would like to compare the penal system of the biggest capitalist country in the world, the USA. The USSR had a population of around 140 million when it had a Gulag prisoner population of 1,850,258 (and 190,000 prisoner and jail population) shortly before the Nazi imperialist invasion, in 1940. That was 1.3% of the total population. The US state which is in absolutely no comparable danger to losing its violence monopoly at the moment, is a country of 311 million people which the New York Times writes:


The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners. . . The United States has, for instance, 2.3 million criminals behind bars, more than any other nation, according to data maintained by the International Center for Prison Studies at King's College London.

China, which is four times more populous than the United States, is a distant second, with 1.6 million people in prison. . .

The United States comes in first, too, on a more meaningful list from the prison studies center, the one ranked in order of the incarceration rates. It has 751 people in prison or jail for every 100,000 in population. (If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.)

The statistic for the "Prison population" of the US is then at around 1% of the total population. Half of the US prison population though is though in private for-profit prisons, categorised not as penal labor but slave labor. Another 400,000 "detained" US so-called "immigrants" are serving penal labor sentences in contracted private and public penal facilities and work sites that do not officially count as prisons!
The rate of incarceration of ethnicities in US prisons is blatant insitutionalised racism. 66% of the US population is categorised as "white", 12.9% as "Black" and 16% as "Hispanic or Latino" by the US population Census Bureau 2010,



Midyear 2010 Incarceration rates by race and gender per 100,000 US residents of the same race and gender.[42]

Ethnicity Male
White non-Hispanic 678
Black non-Hispanic 4,347
Hispanic of any race 1,775

All inmates 1,352


"You can't have capitalism without racism" because it makes money off of it.

[JPSartre12]

1.2% in the USSR and ~1% in the US? Wow, that's much closer than I thought.

Thanks for this, I love the threads you start :thumbup:

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

I ended up recalculating the total prisoner population with the jail population of the USSR 1940 in it which makes it 1.3%. But if you would count in all the US detention centers and penal labor sentences (which it is hard to find really any statistics on, we just know they exist), i presume it would be closer to 2% for the US incarceration rate. Since 2000 the prisoners in private prisons went from 10% of the total prison population to 50% in 2010. It will get more and more

[JPSartre12]

I ended up recalculating the total prisoner population with the jail population of the USSR 1940 in it which makes it 1.3%. But if you would count in all the US detention centers and penal labor sentences (which it is hard to find really any statistics on, we just know they exist), i presume it would be closer to 2% for the US incarceration rate. Since 2000 the prisoners in private prisons went from 10% of the total prison population to 50% in 2010. It will get more and more

Whoa, that's even worse than I thought :sneaky:
Perhaps this is a ridiculous notion, but is there a sort of "prison bubble" that could burst? Similar to the housing bubble burst, the out-of-control credit and student debt bubbles, etc. Do you think that there will be a point in which the prison system grows out of control and implodes? It seems to be growing too much too fast to me.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Well, the "bubble" is in fact just a monetary funnel of the state to private industry. So this artificially created boom in the private prison industry will have the "bubble" only burst when the state doesn't have any money anymore. 40 cents out of every dollar the US spends is debt, so when capitalists stop lending to the US because they are afraid it won''t be able to pay back, the US won't cut funding for big business, but the schools, public workers wages etc. So it won't burst, in fact it will increase until the capitalist state doesn't exist anymore.

[RedHammer]

Why aren't people making a bigger deal over the "slave labor"? That's morally repugnant. The United States is a prison state if there ever was one.

[MarxSchmarx]

It's interesting to note that contemporary Russia's incarceration rate isn't far behind and roughly comparable to the united states - certainly when compared to other g8 countries; moreover, there have been serious problems with epidemics (e.g., tuburculosis) that are the result of severe overcrowding and horrendous conditions. What's striking is that the share of russia's prison population is no longer primarily made up of political prisoners, as it may have been under the gulag times. Rather, the prisoners are by and large duly convicted as in America for mostly drug and property crimes. Unlike america, however, I don't believe Russia has a byzantine immigration jail system but ethnic minorities are disporportionately represented. Indeed, it's telling that although privatization is not nearly as far along as it is in the United States, the contemporary russian prisons have many of the same problems as the american system.

[Jimmie Higgins]

"You can't have capitalism without racism" because it makes money off of it.I totally agree with everything you said, except I don't believe this last line is true.

While some companies make a profit, really this is a side-effect, an afterthought when considering the entire scope of the US prison system. California spends tons of money on prisons - way more than could ever justify some small companies making a little money from it. I have a friend who was in prison here and he said everything they manufactured there was just supplies for other California prisons - wooden chairs, etc.

The US prison system exists as a system of control and a weight on the entire working class. The slave-labor of prisons does more to act as downward pressure on wages than it does in making super-exploited profits. Then again felons being forced to mark their prison history on job applications does the same thing - so again, I think the prison profits thing comes more from just the overall logic of neoliberalism being applied to prisons rather than that being the motivation for prisons.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Why aren't people making a bigger deal over the "slave labor"? That's morally repugnant. The United States is a prison state if there ever was one.Millions of liberals in California are going to be convinced to vote for increasing prison labor, imbedded as a part of a proposition outlawing the Death Penalty in California. Many will knowingly do so and the proposition while condemning the Death Penalty is also full of language about "punishing criminals" and "victim's rights" and so on. So basically, no one cares about all the slave labor; or the guards who beat prisoners; or deal drugs and cell phones; or have prisoners fight each-other for gambling purposes; or that mandatory minimum sentencing can cause a first-time offender who did nothing more than have a drug-dealing roommate to spend most of their adult life in prison... because no one cares about "criminals". Criminal is the new n-word, and both political parties have agreed for at least the last 25 years in the US: they are subhumans who can be thrown away and forgotten about.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

I disagree JH, laws are actively written to focus on minorities in all capitalist states.

[Prometeo liberado]

Half of the US prison population though is though in private for-profit prisons

Those that are not in the "for-profit" prison system, and their loved ones, are still subject to the monopoly-gangster style extortion that is the prison phone system and/or commissary system. Huge profits are made on calling cards that inmate loved ones must purchase in order to speak to inmates. With the rise in inmate cell phone smuggling(brought in by the guards) this company has offered to pay the state to install scramblers at all prison yards. Thus insuring the continued flow of cash for calling cards. Almost the same can be said for the need to purchase extra calories from the commissary, at a profit.
Just thought i'd get slightly off topic.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I disagree JH, laws are actively written to focus on minorities in all capitalist states.
Sorry, you disagree with what part of my argument?

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Sorry, you disagree with what part of my argument?

That racism is just a side effect of capitalism. Laws are deliberately written to isolate ethnic minorities and split the working class.

[MarxSchmarx]

That racism is just a side effect of capitalism. Laws are deliberately written to isolate ethnic minorities and split the working class.

I think JH was saying that the money/profit-making aspects of prison labor are a side-effect of the role of criminal policy in capitalist society, which in turn does reflect a racist ideology.

[Os Cangaceiros]

There are people who are making a lot of money off this incarceration phenomenon, there is no doubt about it. A brief look at the percentage of offenders and their types of offenses is quite illustrative of that. I was on probation in Texas and believe me, they will try and keep you on the hook any way they can in order to squeeze more money out of you.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think JH was saying that the money/profit-making aspects of prison labor are a side-effect of the role of criminal policy in capitalist society, which in turn does reflect a racist ideology.
Exactly. It's similar to the arguments around war-profiteering in the US invasion of Iraq. No doubt they tried to make the conquered pay for their own conquest as much as possible and no doubt that individual firms (trade and oil companies, private contractors, infrastructure construction, etc) made tons of money off the war. BUT this is not the reason for the war, just people profiteering from it - I think prison labor is the same and we'd have prisons even if all direct profit opportunities were removed. It's an institution of repression, not direct profits - of course this repression is necessary for the operation of the profit system in general.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Exactly. It's similar to the arguments around war-profiteering in the US invasion of Iraq. No doubt they tried to make the conquered pay for their own conquest as much as possible and no doubt that individual firms (trade and oil companies, private contractors, infrastructure construction, etc) made tons of money off the war. BUT this is not the reason for the war, just people profiteering from it - I think prison labor is the same and we'd have prisons even if all direct profit opportunities were removed. It's an institution of repression, not direct profits - of course this repression is necessary for the operation of the profit system in general.

I disagree that building expanding the prison industry and having prisoners produce the costs is a "side effect". Lobbyists write all laws. These lobbyists are hired by Corporations to harass politicians to pass laws. Particularly the laws written in the US against cheap (working class) drugs are written deliberately against the lower classes, to suppress the working class, to convict them for smoking plants or "violating" minor obstructions and serve long prison sentences in prisons that first need to be built (by private contracters) from which the whole capitalist economy profits. And when enough money has flown to politicians from capital to hire private contractors to build prison vicinities, even more money flows to the political market to privatise those prisons.

Don't believe for one second that the corporate owners who orchestrate this process, don't do it consciously. The ruling class in America has pushed this to insane proportions in comparison to other countries. I mean, the US has 5% of the world's population but 25% of its prisoners; you think that is an unconscious process of the bourgeoisie? No, it is just another way to make a few more bucks, and if the majority of people you write the laws against (the poor) happen to be black (because of a deep capitalist culture of racism), great! You can support the reactionary republicans to fuck the other half of the working class which cloaks such 'beautiful' white skin.

[Positivist]

Exactly. It's similar to the arguments around war-profiteering in the US invasion of Iraq. No doubt they tried to make the conquered pay for their own conquest as much as possible and no doubt that individual firms (trade and oil companies, private contractors, infrastructure construction, etc) made tons of money off the war. BUT this is not the reason for the war, just people profiteering from it - I think prison labor is the same and we'd have prisons even if all direct profit opportunities were removed. It's an institution of repression, not direct profits - of course this repression is necessary for the operation of the profit system in general.

I can agree that the prison system is a tool of repression and any profit opportunities do little more then cover costs but I disagree that this was the case for Iraq. If profiteering was not the cause of the war, then what was? Iraq did not have WMD's and the government knew it, and there sure as hell wasn't any humanitarian motivation so the obvious conclusion is that the war was fought in the interest of subjugating the Iraqi populace to US corporate control. Why would the American bourgiose endorse a foreign invasion support a costly invasion if only to break even at the end of the day?

[Jimmie Higgins]

I disagree that building expanding the prison industry and having prisoners produce the costs is a "side effect". Lobbyists write all laws. These lobbyists are hired by Corporations to harass politicians to pass laws. Particularly the laws written in the US against cheap (working class) drugs are written deliberately against the lower classes, to suppress the working class, to convict them for smoking plants or "violating" minor obstructions and serve long prison sentences in prisons that first need to be built (by private contracters) from which the whole capitalist economy profits. And when enough money has flown to politicians from capital to hire private contractors to build prison vicinities, even more money flows to the political market to privatize those prisons.These systems are simply more costly that what they produce as far as profits. The only way these private companies are able to make profits on a lot of the very low level clerical or manufacturing work generally done is partially because it's low-wage, but also that it's essentially subsidized by taxes.

The other problem with your argument is that the original drug-war lobbyists were inside the Regan administration. It was their strategy originally and created and implemented at a time when drug-use was declining. They flooded media and used the Presidential office for a PR offensive and they highlighted and blew-up crime-fears as much as possible and linked them to the, "urban jungle where predators [black kids] stock decent [="white"] Americans" as Ronald Regan put it. This was probably a decade before any larger prison production was implemented and the goal was not prisoners as cheap labor but repressing surplus labor as manufacturing declined and demonizing black people in order to justify social spending cuts and rollbacks on civil rights era reforms.


Don't believe for one second that the corporate owners who orchestrate this process, don't do it consciously. Of course they do - they just don't do it for profits directly or primarily - they do it to keep the profit system working.


The ruling class in America has pushed this to insane proportions in comparison to other countries. I mean, the US has 5% of the world's population but 25% of its prisoners; you think that is an unconscious process of the bourgeoisie? Where did I argue that - just that they aren't in it primarily for the super-exploitation of prison labor. They would have this system of imprisonment even if they were forced to abandon prison-labor, that's my point here.


I can agree that the prison system is a tool of repression and any profit opportunities do little more then cover costs but I disagree that this was the case for Iraq. If profiteering was not the cause of the war, then what was? Iraq did not have WMD's and the government knew it, and there sure as hell wasn't any humanitarian motivation so the obvious conclusion is that the war was fought in the interest of subjugating the Iraqi populace to US corporate control. Why would the American bourgiose endorse a foreign invasion support a costly invasion if only to break even at the end of the day?The same reason the British Empire wanted to control Suez. The US wants to dominate the region because Europe and Asia get oil there and it's a sort of crossroads for trade. So they did it for oil, but more for the control of oil (specifically China's access to it) rather than simply war-spoils.

It's the same thing in Afghanistan... it wasn't a profiteering-caused war, it was a war for imperial positioning after the cold war. The US now has bases and a permanent presence where Europe and India and the Middle East and Russia all run trade through. That ensures that even if China can economically surpass the US, the US will still hold key points of power and trade over Russia or China or India or Europe. Not to mention Iran, is circled by the US and US allies.

[brigadista]

these kids need help not locking up... this is USA but same goes for the UK

Uncompromising Photos Expose Juvenile Detention in America

http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2012/04/photog-hopes-to-effect-policy-with-survey-of-juvenile-lock-ups?pid=1963

[Positivist]

@J.H. ok I understand what your saying, it was more a move of long term profiting than immediate profiteering.

[Die Neue Zeit]

These systems are simply more costly that what they produce as far as profits. The only way these private companies are able to make profits on a lot of the very low level clerical or manufacturing work generally done is partially because it's low-wage, but also that it's essentially subsidized by taxes.

All the more reason, then, to advocate the abolition of all prison labour for the benefit of private parties, and also unionization rights and such for all prisoners who aren't serial murderers, serial rapists, and such!

[Jimmie Higgins]

Yeah and prison-labor not something to ignore either - I just wanted to comment because among NGO-type activists you hear this argument that prisons are like a back-door slave-labor system and I think there are some problems with that formulation.

But because SOME companies do make a killing with prison-labor that just entrenches this system more - just as prison construction contracts. It means that it is harder to get rid of the system because we will have to not only organize against a very fundamental system for the US state, but also because there are going to be 100,000s of prison workers, court prosecutors, cops, the smaller companies that do their business with prisons (selling concessions and so on at inflated prices to a captive customer-base), the contractors who build the prisons, and the small rural formally company towns which are now "prison-towns" that get all their taxes and many of their jobs from prisons.

It will be like trying to get rid of the US military - not only do we have to face the ruling class but all all the toadies who actually do personally materially benefit from this system.

It fucking sucks - but I think even a large-scale attempt at a movement against this system is the key to cracking open anti-racist struggle in the US and (interconnected) the class struggle. We probably can't win full abolition without a revolution (which in the US would undoubtedly have many "Bastilles") but it's possible that a huge movement could make significant gains and radicalize a generation (especially of the most oppressed people: prisoners) in the process.

[Aristophenes McTwitch]

"Corrective labor" is a failed experiment, and a quick look at recidivism of Scandinavian countries that have non-punitive prisons compared to nations like the United States shows that this country has much to learn from the Scandinavians.

[Mr. Natural]

As the most "advanced" capitalist country and the locus and first line of defense/offense for global capitalism's economic, political, and military power, the US will also be showing the way for capitalist prison relations. The capitalist police-surveillance-prison state is developing everywhere.

Jimmie Higgins touched upon capital punishment, which is a major "prison" issue. I would like to add the rampant and growing practice of torture-by-solitary-confinement to the discussion. As Brits discovered with their immobilization-complete-with-head-shrouds-and-loud-music torture of IRA prisoners and others, psychological torture is horrific and leaves no marks (other than madness). And there has been a major increase of torture-by-sensory-deprivation-and-solitary-confinement in US prisons These practices are growing by leaps and bounds, as Bradley Manning of Wikileaks has discovered and Julian Assange is trying to avoid.

As for "slave labor," I think of the prisoner road gangs that keep highway vegetation trimmed and work very hard in often miserable conditions. Such prison workgangs also fight forest fires and thin timber. I'm not completely opposed to such practices, though, for they can offer prisoners an early release, a sense of purpose and discipline, a relief from jailhouse tedium and violence, and perhaps some necessary skills. It depends on the actual policies, which will be brutal under the present system, of course.

But then, we are all imprisoned by capitalist relations now, aren't we? I experience this as my daily torture in my global capitalist prison, and I'm looking for a way to break out of this shit!

My red-green best