Christmas, that time of year!

[Rasta Sapian]

to buy or not to buy, that is the question?
has christmas lost the real meaning (birth of christ) has impirialism/capitalism brainwashed everyone to buy buy buy, to fulfill our hearts with joy and greed?
Can we actually boycott Christmas?
Or is the holy spirit of giving to much bliss to pass up?

Merry xmas everyone :)

[cubist]

we can't boycott christmas,

but we can celebrate for the reasons we want to, we don't have to acknoledge the religion and the holy what??? spirit the holy spirit is vodka and theres always plenty to go around, irelevant of the time of year

we don't have to spend lots of money on festivities for the sake of it, but then i don't have kids, i don't know or understand what it is about kids that cuases people to bankrupt themselves over christmas but it happens

[commieboy]

Well, this is my first year of strict atheism...everyone else around here celebrates christmas....I know it will probably suck when everyone opens their gifts and im left with nothing, but i will be the only person not selling out their "Beliefs" just to get a gift.

But my g/f celebrates christmas so i went out to Tiffany's and bought her a ring with matching earrings...... P.S. they dont like guys wearing a 1978 French military issue jacket and ratty ass tennis shoes.

But i think its okay to give gifts at christmas aslong as you're not forgetting why you're giving and recieving gifts....Im doing it to see my girlfriends eyes light up when she sees the fucker that i spent my rifle money on...But i think it will be worth it......

I hope

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I dont get how some of these threads make it into a philosophy forum but it dosent matter.

I dont believe that Christmas itself is in anyway evil etc. in fact it does basically involve sharing and quality family time that capitalism has destroyed, its the only time left due to the pressures of work for most families to get together.

I would if I was a communist like you guys possibly consider not getting presents but perhaps buying for those not with the same beliefs, you are not in a comunist society now so why boycott it, it would be like boycotting your PC because Dell the capitalist pigs in the society of capitalism made it etc.

Not sure if my point of view is coming across but take it for what it is.

[redstar2000]

I don't get how some of these threads make it into a philosophy forum but it doesn't matter.

It matters to me...so off to Opposing Ideologies it goes.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 11:58 PM
But my g/f celebrates christmas so i went out to Tiffany's and bought her a ring with matching earrings......
Tiffanys??? Holy Cow!

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Redstar most of the posts in Philosophy have nothing to do with philosophy at all, but its not a philosophy forum so I wouldnt take it too seriously, plus you probably know this already. I will be posting more in there, maybe I can spark some debate, who knows.

[Bolshevika]

I think jewelry is the most bourgeois item ever. It does not do anything, it is very expensive, etc. The only reason people buy it is because "it makes you look good".

As for Christmas. It is a holiday that combines two of my most hated ideas: Judeo-Christian values and capitalism. Christmas is the stupidest holiday ever, I vomit everytime I see a Christmas 'tree' on public property.

I think in a socialist society there should be a day where people exchange gifts, but not christmas.Christmas should be replaced.

[dopediana]

christmas is bullshit and was created by the church in order to end pagan celebrations and rites of the winter solstice. jesus wasn't even born in winter.

here's an interesting bit about santa claus. he actually comes from the norse god and goddess odin and freya. odin would fly around and give people presents when he felt like it. there's where santa comes from. now, freya would gallop around at night on a horse with eight legs. each of the legs evolved into a reindeer for our traditional christmas bullcrap.

and we kiss under mistletoe because it's a pagan symbol for good luck and love.



i think jewelry shows that someone is willing to spend alot of money on you for some little rock that you'll probably lose in the future but they do it anyway because they know you'll appreciate it. though when i told josh not to get me a ring in the "rare even he ever might want to" he asked if i was being cynical about the whole thing.

[Urban Rubble]

I celebrate Christmas. Not really because I care about any of the meanings behind it. Just because I feel it's a tradition, and one that I like. I love Christmas. It's sad that it has become whored out as an excuse to make Capitalists richer, but hey, that's Capitalist society for ya.

Anyway, it has nothing to do with "selling out your beliefs" as someone said, it's just a tradition. I feel like people overthink some things.

As for "to buy or not to buy". I buy shit every other time of year, what is different about the 25th ? Capitalists are going to make money regardless of what we do. Boycotting is not the solution (in my opinion) revolution is the only solution. Then we can do whatever we want with Christmas, though I hope we wouldn't ban it. I feel traditions are an important way of keeping a cultural identity.

[peaccenicked]

Christmas, is that not next week.

[Fidel Castro]

At this point in time I am in turmoil. I consider myself a socialist, but then also a Christian. I think the Christian teaching of goodwill to all man and the act at Christmas of trying to give to others as well as recieve is something worthwhile. Once again though, capitalism has hijacked this festival and changed it's meaning into "tell your mum and dad to buy you this and this and that etc". It is quite sick really, that a religious period causes so much debt and misery, all for one single day.

[Urban Rubble]

Yeah, I agree. Christianity teaches great things, love your neighbor and all that. However, Christians have ruined it.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

It's not like their is a "safe" way to spend money. You can't buy stuff other times of the year and think that your striking a blow agaisnt capitalism, because you're not. If you have money, buy people shit. What's wrong with that? It's always helpful, of course, to stay away from the products made by the excessively bastard companies and/or sold by the excessively bastard retailers.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The bible isn't good just because there are some good thinsg to be learned from it. You can't overlook all the mysoginy and chauvinism in the bible.

[DeadMan]

Give more then you receive. It's the spirit of love and giving that X-mas is all about. Sure, it's the birth of Christ, and I do give my prayer and what not but I also like to see the look on someones face when you give them the perfect present.

DeadMan.

[dopediana]

i think the holiday itself is based on extremely dodgy premises but that is the thing i love about christmas. who cares if it's consumer-satisfaction-induced or just from seeing your family? the fact is, everyone is in a better mood and it definitely shows on everyone's face and the good feeling is rather contageous. it's nice having an excuse to celebrate.

[(*]

In general, people seem to be in better moods around this time (the holiday season, including the new year)

Santa Claus, what a great way to con kids into behaving for a few weeks.

Why do parent like to lie to their kids?...Santa Claus, tooth fairy, easter bunny...I'm sure some of you would add some other figures to this list.

[solo_ar]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 19 2003, 04:04 AM
Yeah, I agree. Christianity teaches great things, love your neighbor and all that. However, Christians have ruined it.
exactly my man. And i am a 21 year old male who grew up in a Christian Church with a christian family. Your post is perfect. "Christians" ruined Chrisitianity. I believe there is a God. and i believe that christianity and socialism could work together, as long as there were no mondern day 'christians'.

[Anastacia]

I've thought that too. Why do parents lie to their children? I didn't buy any christmas presents and I don't want any. I'm not going to support capitalism because of a tradition.

[LoBBy]

christmas = orgasm of capitalism

-> my comment to the wonderful christmas time

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I don't celebrate Christmas.
I celebrate the pagan winter solstice, were I put up decorations, Eat too much, drink a lot,
Exchange gifts and generally make merry.

So nothing at all like christmas then :lol:

[truthaddict11]

"every christmas night jesus rises from his grave and feeds on the flesh of the living" - Peter Griffen

[Danton]

Without doubt the most depressing, degrading and pointless date in the calender year.. I'm down with Scrooge,BAH HUMBUG! I shit on the chest of Santa and all his little helpers and I laugh in the face of pious, self important christians...

Carol singers are routinely abused at my doorstep and the Queens speech is banned in my house.. I will however get absolutley monstered on Brandy...

[commieboy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 01:31 AM
I think jewelry is the most bourgeois item ever. It does not do anything, it is very expensive, etc. The only reason people buy it is because "it makes you look good".

you know what? I dont care if its bourgeois....my gilfriend isn't communist, and she loves jewlry.....i bought actually i won a plactic ring for her from a claw machine and she wears it everyday.....

As long as it makes her happy i'd do anything, there is alot of stupid shit people spend money on....plus what else am i going to get her?

BTW, i gave it to her early because she's going to Colorado for christmas and i've got to tell you guys, she loved it!

when she opened the box she dropped in on the table and kissed me, that was totaly worth it....

[Soviet power supreme]

Im off to buy those crap stuff which are made in third world countries by child slave labour. :angry:

And what comes to christianity, christmas isnt the day jesus borned.It was originally a Roman holiday and christians took it as a festival of their messiah's birth.

[Liberty Lover]

Christmas Should be More Commercial (http://capmag.com/article.asp?id=2254)

A good article.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 01:31 AM
I think jewelry is the most bourgeois item ever. It does not do anything, it is very expensive, etc. The only reason people buy it is because "it makes you look good".

As for Christmas. It is a holiday that combines two of my most hated ideas: Judeo-Christian values and capitalism. Christmas is the stupidest holiday ever, I vomit everytime I see a Christmas 'tree' on public property.

I think in a socialist society there should be a day where people exchange gifts, but not christmas.Christmas should be replaced.
so you hate jewish and christians. How can you hate hitler and jews at the same time????

AND here is the real story about christmas:http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/hol...days/christmas/ (http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/holidays/christmas/)

I hope no one think its a product of the "rich" jews. WOW, would they be stupid to thinkg that. And no. santa Clause is not a product of capitalism, Im amazed me that some of you dont know that, didnt anyone ever tell you the eal story of Santa clause. Use the above link to also find the story of santa, here is the first part of the story:
"The legend of Santa Claus can be traced back hundreds of years to a monk named St. Nicholas. It is believed that Nicholas was born sometime around 280 A.D. in Patara, near Myra in modern-day Turkey. Much admired for his piety and kindness, St. Nicholas became the subject of many legends. It is said that he gave away all of his inherited wealth and traveled the countryside helping the poor and sick".
SEE NOT ALL RICH PEOPLE DESERVE TO DIE, Edward norton.

Anyway, many cultures had specila celebrations on december 25 because it was the end of the winter solstice, and others for other reasons. When the romans mixed christianity with their celebrations was that christmas was officially born. In fact it is known that Christ was not born in December, although some say April others say august or october.
So the christians really should not be celebrating christmas for the reason they do celebrated, and other people just celebrate it because of santa.

I celebrated christams but we never believed it was the birthday of christ. IT IS JUST TRADITION and I hate the ACLU for trying to take that away.
Its like thanksgiving, its already tradition.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by Soviet power [email protected] 22 2003, 11:07 PM


And what comes to christianity, christmas isnt the day jesus borned.It was originally a Roman holiday and christians took it as a festival of their messiah's birth.
Yes. But it wasnt christians that took it as their holiday, when an emperor in rome declared chritianity the official religion. the romans took their celebration and gave it a christian meaning. And then the christians just went with it.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 09:44 AM
christmas = orgasm of capitalism

-> my comment to the wonderful christmas time
hmmmmmm. look at my second to last post.
christmas was going on way before the word capitalism even existed.

[Soviet power supreme]

we can't boycott christmas,

Why not?Just dont buy those products.


you know what? I dont care if its bourgeois....my gilfriend isn't communist, and she loves jewlry.....i bought actually i won a plactic ring for her from a claw machine and she wears it everyday.....


Im sure Bolshevika didnt mean all jewelry.It takes a lot digging to found enough gold for example.Two wedding rings produces 6000 tonnes land waste.

[Pete]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 12:02 AM
The bible isn't good just because there are some good thinsg to be learned from it. You can't overlook all the mysoginy and chauvinism in the bible.


Or the Genocide...

As I posted in my chit chat thread on the 'true meaning fo christmas...

There is a hole in the sky
No one has seen Your son in days
Things keep get wierder and wierder
And Christmas is for shopping
And the shopping god is everything..

Cheers to Matt Good

-Pete

[edit: messed up my tags the first time around[/edit]

[cubist]

El Profe,

capitalism existed even when it wasn't called capitalismm.

christmas the time to put yourself in poverty for the sake of tradition

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by (*@Dec 19 2003, 05:34 AM
Why do parent like to lie to their kids?...Santa Claus, tooth fairy, easter bunny...I'm sure some of you would add some other figures to this list.
You are SO correct! I was completely crushed when I found out there wasnt a Santa. And I know my children felt the same way. I felt like such the hypocrite when it was time to tell them the truth. You try to teach your children to do unto others how you would want them to do unto you, but turn around and marr them for life by lying to them. I have ALWAYS felt horrible for that whole thing.
As far as Christ or any other Christ figure we have been told to worship, I think of Joseph Campbell and his "Hero persona" thru mythology. Within every culture thru out time, there has been a christ/hero born of humble surroundings, goes thru an alone/desert period of temptation, rises above it, and gives his life for those around him. Thats is what we should worship and strive to be as individuals and collectively ..... right back to, " do unto others how you would want them to do unto you". And as far a political structures, I do beleive Communism in its purist form would reflect that system of belief. Everyone gets equal share, no one better than another, no one having more than another.....

My Christmas Reflects.....
Debora

[Rasta Sapian]

great comments folks!
Lets face facts: Christmas is the birth of Christ, our savour, at least this is what i have been told
Another fact is that christmas has become really commercial, gimmi gimmi, and yes even a capitalist orgasim! :P

However christmas is also, something more, a tradition, a time of year to be with friends and family, to give from the heart! It is something we share, and despite all the moralistic values, I think is is simply that special time of year.

So yall have a merry christmas, and a happy new year. :)

[Soviet power supreme]

That reminds me how stupid festival is new year's eve.It is only decided that year begins then, nothing more.It could be for example 6th August.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by Debora Aro+Dec 24 2003, 07:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Debora Aro @ Dec 24 2003, 07:25 PM)
(*@Dec 19 2003, 05:34 AM
Why do parent like to lie to their kids?...Santa Claus, tooth fairy, easter bunny...I&#39;m sure some of you would add some other figures to this list.
[/b]
I was never lied about any of that. I knew they put the money under my pillow, they gave me the presents on christams and they use to hide the easter eggs.

IT is pretty bad that people lie to their kids about that stuff.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by Rasta [email protected] 24 2003, 08:50 PM

However christmas is also, something more, a tradition, a time of year to be with friends and family, to give from the heart&#33; It is something we share, and despite all the moralistic values, I think is is simply that special time of year.


Yes, if you dont like the shopping and spending money part of christmasn. Then just look at christmas like Rasta sapian said.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Gah, Christmas is nothing more then a mishmash of a tradition which is now both fundamentalist and consumerist, both of which I am strongly against. Christmas is a time for giving (and getting) and worshipping the "savior". I&#39;ll have no part of it. Unfortunately, the rest of my family doesn&#39;t agree, and I&#39;m too much of a nice guy to spoil their fun for today.

[andresG]

Originally posted by Rasta [email protected] 24 2003, 03:50 PM
great comments folks&#33;
Lets face facts: Christmas is the birth of Christ, our savour...
:angry:

You people still exist&#33;

Soon to be 2004 and this is still going on&#33;

[Domino]

I celebrate Chanuka, no gifts, it&#39;s not a &#39;commercial&#39; holiday. I also, though, celebrate Christmas, but as something social, no religion. I make my own gifts, I don&#39;t want to fall into the crazy shopper sindrome.

[Blackberry]

I celebrate Festivus. (http://dir.salon.com/ent/col/mill/2000/12/11/festivus/index.html)

[dannie]

Originally posted by Rasta [email protected] 18 2003, 10:24 PM
to buy or not to buy, that is the question?
has christmas lost the real meaning (birth of christ)
off topic: you are misguieded by the x-tians

x-mas wasn&#39;t about christ, they just changed this feast

we are at the sun-turn (don&#39;t know the right word), and the celts used to put trees with bright peaces of cloth on fire, they would put meat, animals, grains, etc. in the threes to ensure furtility the next season

a good peace on this can be found on www.satanisme.info

informative ==> informatory ==> festivities and tradition

on topic: i haven&#39;t bought anyting, my mom had bought something on the rez when she went to america to visit a native american friend, so i gave that to my neece, there is always a way aroudn buying stuff from greedy pigs

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I would never tell my kids (if I had any) that there was a santa/tooth fairy etc etc

I would always be honest with them.

This christmas I did the same as any other day, just as though it never existed.

[ComradeRed]

[sarchasm] Oh please, we all know the REAL christmas is because of the birth of SANTA [LOL&#33;]

[Bolshevika]

Christmas is the celebration of a Pagan holiday. Just like Halloween, the church tried to &#39;take it back&#39; but people ignored it and celebrate it in the original form anyway.

I think it&#39;s horrible to confuse your children about their perception of reality and fantasy. For example, I would never tell my children to believe in a Santa, Toothfairy, Jesus, etc. However, if they want to believe it in the form of burning a childhood phase, then I find it fine. I find it absolutely silly how parents psychologically damage children by telling them an old, overweight bearded man is watch their every move. Now we know where paranoia starts.

[Bolshevika]

Oh yes, I&#39;d also like to take the time to compliment El Companero y Presidente Fidel Castro for not allowing the Christian scum to display their disgusting trees and religious vomit out in public.

Religion is a private thing, not to be displayed on the sidewalks the Peoples built with their hands, many who are not religious. Religion is a disgrace to mankind.

Oh yes, and did all of you know that the ACLU was inspired by Emma Goldman?

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Bolshevika, give that guy a medel, I agree with you all the way

[dopediana]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2003, 05:42 PM
Religion is a private thing, not to be displayed on the sidewalks the Peoples built with their hands, many who are not religious. Religion is a disgrace to mankind.

it is a disgrace. but religion is a big thing for some people and i think they ought to be allowed to string up lights for christmas or wear a cross around their neck. big deal. it means something to them and it makes them happy. as long as a religious person does not try to impose their beliefs on me or directly or indirectly allow their beliefs to affect the way someone else lives then i have nothing against it. the good thing about christmas is that it puts everyone in a good mood and promotes a sense of unity and goodwill to mankind.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by AllTomorrowsParties+Dec 27 2003, 07:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AllTomorrowsParties @ Dec 27 2003, 07:54 PM)
[email protected] 27 2003, 05:42 PM
Religion is a private thing, not to be displayed on the sidewalks the Peoples built with their hands, many who are not religious. Religion is a disgrace to mankind.

it is a disgrace. but religion is a big thing for some people and i think they ought to be allowed to string up lights for christmas or wear a cross around their neck. big deal. it means something to them and it makes them happy. as long as a religious person does not try to impose their beliefs on me or directly or indirectly allow their beliefs to affect the way someone else lives then i have nothing against it. the good thing about christmas is that it puts everyone in a good mood and promotes a sense of unity and goodwill to mankind. [/b]
But this farce is everwhere, all over the tele, its so commercialised its disgusting.

[Bolshevika]

I believe Fidel is a softcore Marxist, and has made many mistakes regarding religion (like allowing the Pope to visit and not having him killed). It shows he is secular when he promotes laws like this one. Even the social democracies like France are taking progressive steps towards religion.

Religion, superstition, etc are all forms of oppression. Oppression made up by the liars at the Vatican and in the United States. Leftists are secular, so we ought to make our laws in the spirit of secularism. The official &#39;religion&#39; of a state should be atheism.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

once again Bolshevika I agree.

As a Queen song goes.....

"our lives are dictated by tradition, superstition and false religion"

[Bolshevika]

Yes Robert. It is utter bullshit, the Christians have made themselves out as "victims of oppression" and now get some sympathy from even fellow Leftists. They are thieves, that rob us with their tithing. Their victims are lmost always never the bourgeoisie, but almost always the proletariat, who has the least to give.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

yeah, what really pisses me of is people who say they are communist and also believe in a religion.

For me religion and communism dont mix

[dopediana]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2003, 06:03 PM

But this farce is everwhere, all over the tele, its so commercialised its disgusting.
yeah, but what can you do? we live in a global market and right now it&#39;s what sells. it will be an evolutionary process of de-christianizing everything.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Its just frustrating at peoples stupidity. When will people realise that there is no god, there is no afterlife, there is nothing when you die, its over.

[Bolshevika]

...When the end of the world comes and god doesn&#39;t save them.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Yeah, its just a shame that I wont be able to laugh in their faces

[Communist_Chris_Reloaded]

Wasn&#39;t Santa Claus created by the Coca Cola company?
Any ways I don&#39;t really take Christmas seriously for me it&#39;s just another day of the year same thing for New&#39;s Year Eve and day. If I have money I give people stuff and if I don&#39;t I just givem a hug and wish them a "Merry Christmas". I don&#39;t give a dam if I recive gifts or not. But you should not just say "let&#39;s boycott christmas because it&#39;s evil and capitalist pigs are getting richer" they get rich on every move you make, the bus you take to go somewhere or the piece of bread you buy to eat or the piece of candy you get to sweten up your day.
To take Christmas as a religious holiday is depending on your belives. I can&#39;t say I belive in a specific religion but I don&#39;t celebrate christmas because Christ was born and stuff. But people that belive that celebrate that because it&#39;s there belives and I belive we should respect taht in a way.
Finally to buy crap at Tiffany&#39;s is because of one reason:
a) beacuse yo have a shit load of money
No offense but that store sickens me. I also would have to agree with Bolshevika that jewlery has no use it only makes you look better and people but it for that reason that is quite sickeing in my opinion.
PS
Sorry if I am off the topic but i didn&#39;t get the chance to read the whole thread.