Heightism: is it a big problem.

[∞]

I hear mad stats about how taller people be getting all the cream and people of shorter stature are looked down pon by the opposite sex cuz the media fuxxx with your head. So revlefters have you been treated wrongly cuz your height or seen heightism and what steps should we take to fight it?

[Rafiq]

It's this nonsense that partially contributed to our demise. Please, we, in these times, have issues of more importance to worry about.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Do short people or fat people or people considered ugly have a rougher time subjectively: undoubtedly. Is it a systemic oppression? In my opinion, no.

Fat people might have the best case for being an especially oppressed group in society, but really I think it's a sort of side-effect of class-elitism. In the US anyway, fat people are blamed and discriminated based on a concept that their fatness comes from a moral personal failing - really a lot of it is tied to class and elitist prejudices as many overweight people are poor or come from poor areas and have to work all day and live stressful lives... all things that contribute to US obesity.

But the extra-difficulties faced by short or "ugly" people are not really systemic as far as I can tell. I think it has more to do with just the way people are pitted against each-other and forced to compete in capitalist society. In that kind of environment any subjective advantage or disadvantage is amplified.

If work didn't consume so much of our lives, if it wasn't a struggle to just get work, then what would personal appearance matter?

[∞]

I want to know. Its not a major problem I know. But the media really fucks with short people and you know it. So I think it should be brought up a little bit.

[pluckedflowers]

Basically what Jimmie said.

Also, after a revolution all the media that so pervades our lives and sets our standards of beauty would be democratically controlled and no longer subjected to the imperatives of profit that currently lead it to poison everything it touches.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Though there is a correlation between economic poverty and ill-health, and between economic poverty and obesity, and whilst the former is surely causation (the poor living in urban centres, poor access to healthcare, poor access to gyms/recreational clubs, greater stress in their jobs, work longer etc.), i'm not sure the latter is causation.

I mean, it's been proven time and again [and logic explains this] that it's actually pretty cheap and easy to eat healthily. Stuff like muesli, porridge, rice, pasta, noodles, fresh fruit and veg, beans, nuts and seeds are really pretty cheap compared to living off fast food or microwave meals. I see the problem with obesity as one majorly of education and propaganda; I mean, we know that Coca Cola, Macdonalds etc. are awful for our health and our waistlines yet there is nothing done to stop the excessive supply of these foods, nothing done to curb the never-ending stream of positive propaganda in the form of advertisements and so on.

And let's not forget, obesity used to be a sign of wealth; diseases such as cancer - widely caused by adding unnecessarily rich foods to our diet, smoking and alcohol - used to be called 'rich man's diseases'.

There is certainly a class element to obesity, but i'm not sure that's the main component. Class seems to play a greater role in terms of general ill-health due to economic factors, but i'm just not sure that it's economic factors at play in terms of obesity.

[Leftsolidarity]

I really has never seen this to be a problem.

[hatzel]

Question: is the thread title a lame pun?

[#FF0000]

Question: is the thread title a lame pun?

Making a thread like this without puns all over the place is a tall order.

[Fawkes]

People below average height always get the short end of the stick

[RedAnarchist]

I think some people are really reaching with some of these jokes.

[Leftsolidarity]

People below average height always get the short end of the stick

Now now, that's just a tall tale.

[L.A.P.]

I'm 5'7 and I feel inadequete, even though words can't describe how much it doesn't matter. That is all I have to say.

[Comrade Samuel]

Making a thread like this without puns all over the place is a tall order.

I don't mean to sell you short or anything but this is an all-time low for us.

Personally I don't see it as a real major problem, it is far out ranked by just about every other kind of discrimination (not to say I don't feel for you fellow shorties but there are far more important things to be fighting). True, Hollywood constantly hits us left and right with messages about how you should look down upon everybody who is imperfect and being an adolescent myself, that's especially aggravating but to be honest there are just way more important kinds of discrimination to deal with, ones way more severe, widespead and life ruining than this.

To put it simply: it's a first-world problem if there ever was one.

[Landsharks eat metal]

In all seriousness, I think it really depends on the degree of shortness. I'm 5'2" and feel like shit about that, but I'm still somewhat of an average height. The real problem is the treatment of little people, who I have often seen treated as though they are children or even something less than human. I have seen nothing particularly severe, but it sickened me how some of my classmates at my first college felt that they could just pick up my friend against her will just because she is small enough, or that they insisted on calling her particular things and doing things that annoyed her even after she asked many times for them to stop... all because of her height.

I'm not saying that's the most severe discrimination or anything, but that's still total bullshit that needs to stop.

[Fawkes]

I think some people are really reaching with some of these jokes.

Well that sure cut me down to size


Edit: But seriously, don't you think labeling it "heightism" is just a bit of a stretch?

[∞]

Damn. I accidently pun.

[Zukunftsmusik]

To put it simply: it's a first-world problem if there ever was one.

I dunno, aren't chinese people kinda small? I bet this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Juncai) had to handle a few bullies throughout his childhood.

In all seriousness, though, I think Landsharks Eat Metal's post shows how it indeed can be a real problem for people. So it's definitely a more serious problem than pulling-a-muscle-when-reaching-for-the-tv-remote-kind of problems

[The Jay]

I used to be on the shorter side. Now I'm on the lower end of average. It does make a difference when dealing with people. You have to find ways of "making a presence" that taller people don't always have to do. I can say that it is harder to get attention at a bar or places like that. I think that the reason many short people are aggressive is because they have to be.

[Pretty Flaco]

I'm 5'7 and I feel inadequete, even though words can't describe how much it doesn't matter. That is all I have to say.

i'm 6'2 and i feel pretty good today

[Yuppie Grinder]

I'm 5'7, a little short. I've never been treated badly for it past the 6th grade.

[Yuppie Grinder]

It's this nonsense that partially contributed to our demise. Please, we, in these times, have issues of more importance to worry about.

Like acting really smug and pretending your Kautsky on the internet?

[Positivist]

It's this nonsense that partially contributed to our demise. Please, we, in these times, have issues of more importance to worry about.

So it was sensitivity to stigmatization associated with height (which in the context of the op has been strengthened as a phenomenon by the media) which resulted in the failure of the communist movement? I don't quite recall hearing anything about that. Unless of course that is not what you meant, and rather what you are suggesting is that anti-discrimination was the cause of the failure. From this we can reasonably assume that such anti-discrimination should not be supported at all if it is so destructive. Is this your position.

Now I'm 5'11 and don't really have any experience with "heightism" and am not sure how it could explicitly related to the means of production, but what offends me about this post is that support for anti-discrimination movements, which the communists participated in, is deemed to be responsible for the failure of proletarian revolution. What alternative course of action do you support then? Should the communists have abandonded their beliefs in internationalism and equality to conform to the more reactionary anti-semitism, racism and homophobia of broader segments of the working class?

[∞]

I don't know what its like to be tall or short pretty average at 6'. From what I've gathered its harder being a tall female and being a short male.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Though there is a correlation between economic poverty and ill-health, and between economic poverty and obesity, and whilst the former is surely causation (the poor living in urban centres, poor access to healthcare, poor access to gyms/recreational clubs, greater stress in their jobs, work longer etc.), i'm not sure the latter is causation.It is, even bourgeois scientists think so.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080207163807.htm


Researchers led by Jennifer L. Black of New York University’s Department of Nutrition, Food Studies and Public Health critically reviewed ninety studies published between 1997 through 2007 on neighborhood determinants of obesity through the PubMed and PsychInfo databases.

They found that neighborhoods with decreased economic and social resources have higher rates of obesity. They also found that residents in low-income urban areas are more likely to report greater neighborhood barriers to physical activity, such as limited opportunities for daily walking or physical activity and reduced access to stores that sell healthy foods, especially large supermarkets.



I mean, it's been proven time and again [and logic explains this] that it's actually pretty cheap and easy to eat healthily. Stuff like muesli, porridge, rice, pasta, noodles, fresh fruit and veg, beans, nuts and seeds are really pretty cheap compared to living off fast food or microwave meals. I see the problem with obesity as one majorly of education and propaganda; I mean, we know that Coca Cola, Macdonalds etc. are awful for our health and our waistlines yet there is nothing done to stop the excessive supply of these foods, nothing done to curb the never-ending stream of positive propaganda in the form of advertisements and so on. Rich people are subject to the same propaganda - are they just more resistant?

If you're in the UK, things may be different and the last time I brought this up before, it was actually comrades from the UK who were strongly convinced that this was not possible. But in the US, at least, it's not just "propaganda" - it's structural and material. "Propaganda" and inferior access to information still just implies a personal failing, just not one that the individual is personally responsible for. It basically suggests that the liberals are correct and we just need more health classes in school. But rich people get the same propaganda, poor people usually do have health classes in schools (more so than the rich probably). I think it is tied to structural issues. Suburban sprawl means that suburban ghettos feed people through liquor stores rather than markets which have all been more or less pushed out of business by the big supermarkets (and that's why old markets are now today's liquor stores).

While I think things like Coke being cheaper than water or beer or milk or OJ in the US; lack of markets in poor areas, suburbanization and car-based sprawll are all probably some of the factors, I also think that work is another that's often overlooked. Just as speculation, I think there's a connection between the "obesity epidemic" and the 30 year attack on the US working class under the neo-liberal era. People work more hours now, people work in factory-like service jobs that exhaust them, commutes are longer than in the past, and breaks shorter, most of all stress and depression have increased generally among workers. Obviously we recognize these things as factors in alcoholism or drug abuse, but I think it's just as likely that they also (and maybe more commonly) result in people zoning out in front of the TV or eating junk food.


And let's not forget, obesity used to be a sign of wealth; diseases such as cancer - widely caused by adding unnecessarily rich foods to our diet, smoking and alcohol - used to be called 'rich man's diseases'. And being pale was once a sign of wealth but then became a sign of factory or office drudgery, causing tan to be a sign of leisure time and access to nature.

Yes this was once the case, but now from middle class and up, Americans work-out like hamsters on meth.


There is certainly a class element to obesity, but i'm not sure that's the main component. Class seems to play a greater role in terms of general ill-health due to economic factors, but i'm just not sure that it's economic factors at play in terms of obesity.Health is impacted by class-factors - always has been - and obesity is one representation of that.

At any rate, I don't think that the oppression aspect could qualify as something anywhere comparable to sexual or ethnic oppressions in the US, but I do think - especially with all the media hype about the "obesity crisis" that we should be sharp on this. IMO the way to go about it is that we don't have an "Obesity Crisis" in the US, we have a "Health Care Crisis" and an "Inequality Crisis" and that's the context in which we frame discussions of increased obesity rates and trends in the US.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Also, after a revolution all the media that so pervades our lives and sets our standards of beauty would be democratically controlled and no longer subjected to the imperatives of profit that currently lead it to poison everything it touches.Good point, I hadn't really thought about that.

I was reading something about Woodie Guthrie and his politics and the author wrote that Woodie wanted to make music that people heard and thought of as "their music" whereas most music in capitalism, in order to help create more desire of that specific commodity, creates a sense of being above regular people and makes us feel small so that we desire association with the superstar who is so much better and more ideal than we could ever be.

I never thought of it in terms of feeling literally small!

[Misanthrope]

I have a friend that is a "little person" and he gets picked on a lot and that's bullshit and really can hurt a kid's self esteem :crying:

ps. 6 ft plus master class reporting in

[Agent Ducky]

people of shorter stature are looked down upon
Literally. :thumbup1:

Let me just say I love the pun train that happened here.
Anyways, I'm above average height for a girl, 5'9" and I can't say I've ever gotten shit for it. If anything I suppose it adds to the apparently intimidating air I give off.
But apparently a lot of girls want to be with guys who are taller than them and vice versa for guys. So when I tell everyone that I want to be taller than my mom (who is 6 feet) everyone asks me why would I ever want that?
... another reason I love being asexual.

[NewLeft]

obesity is linked to income, sure, but class? not exactly.. middle income proletariats are not at risk, its the people below the poverty line and those on assistance like food stamps.. and yes that argument is used against food stamps by the neoliberals.. but obesity in men is higher in higher income brackets, most likely bourgeois men.. (the reverse is true for women) while 'food insecurity', which is not the same as hunger, is more related to lower income people. some neighbourhoods have food insecurity and obesity epidemics.. and they're not exactly ghettos, but neighbourhoods with high amounts of coloured people. regardless of income and even class for that matter, obesity is also linked with race..

[Ocean Seal]

5'8" and still pretty fucking awesome, I almost joined the NBA because of all the time I spent jumping just to see in front of tall people.

[∞]

5'8" and still pretty fucking awesome, I almost joined the NBA because of all the time I spent jumping just to see in front of tall people.

You're not even that short bruhbruh. Average US height is only an inch above that.

[Lynx]

Don't know about heightism, but Vladimir Putin is a big problem.