The Absurd Myths Porn Teaches Us About Sex

[Crux]

The Absurd Myths Porn Teaches Us About Sex (http://www.alternet.org/story/154699/the_absurd_myths_porn_teaches_us_about_sex?page=0% 2C0)

Restarting the never-ending porn debate bound to happen on a forum full of male teens with this pretty good piece.

[Aziz]

Sets you up for a harsh reality when you watch a video of a beautiful woman is screaming up a storm then when its your turn to do your thing in the real world there is nothing but silence and sweaty sweaty shame.

:lol:

Amateur porn is way better, being somewhat of a Connoisseur I will break this down.

A) You know you have a shot with the women in amateur porn.
B) Your penis is a similar size to the guys.
C) No one is being coerced or exploited.
D) You can make your own and peak to epic tracks while making love and share it with the world on Xhamster.

[Comrade Samuel]

professor and pornography researcher


Dude, I want this fucking job...

It's not like I expect everybody to be heterosexual and procreate but for those who are I think it wise we educate them on sex in a half-way competent way (i.e not the average public school's way) they learn "all they need to know" from pornography lest every teenage boy in the world becomes a pool boy or a pizzaman rather than developing a personality and social skills in turn causing the human race to become extinct

Exaturation: yes

A real threat to the emotional/ physical well-being of many people: also yes

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Good article. Found myself nodding and saying "yes, of course" to pretty much everything in there.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I suspect the reason people are learning about sex through porn is because of the dire state of sex education, at least in the US. Presumably other similarly puritanical countries have such problems.

I mean seriously, at least in a decent sex education lesson that kid could have learned that women get pubic hair as well (although it seems to me that one must have seriously narrow tastes in porn in order to never encounter any depictions of a woman with pubic hair).

[bcbm]

A) You know you have a shot with the women in amateur porn.

yeah this is usually pretty easy to figure out from watching a video of someone having sex.


C) No one is being coerced or exploited.

i dont think there is really any way to prove this.

[Aziz]

yeah this is usually pretty easy to figure out from watching a video of someone having sex.



i dont think there is really any way to prove this.

Retort 1.

Yes it is easy to see that an average lean gym going guy has more chance of having sex with an average sexy woman who has made a home made porn video than they have bedding Asa Akira.

Retort 2.

Well this hyper aggressive logic is really creepy.


Summary: You are being way too abrasive to a complete stranger on an internet forum. Or are you implying that most home made porn videos are underhanded coerced public rapes by pressuring boyfriends on their doe eyed pure girlfriends?

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Yeah learning sex from porn is bad. I remember the first time I had sex. I was like "wtf was that. It didn't start off with a blowjob, we never even got to the anal part, and I didn't end in her mouth. Plus it only lasted like 5 minutes, not 40 minutes!"

I also used to think I had a extremely small penis because my penis wasn't 12 and a half inches. Porn is a bad teacher :cursing:
But porn isn't supposed to be a teacher, that's not it's role in society...

[A Revolutionary Tool]

C) No one is being coerced or exploited.

I think this is the most contentious point that you make. Because most of the time you have no idea who these people are, the relationship they have together, etc, it's just a snippet of people doing sexual things. We have no idea whether that "girlfriend" is really a girlfriend or a prostitute who is being exploited by a pimp. Worst case being they could be a sex-slave and considering there are absolutely no regulations in this area we don't know whether the person is or not. Hell these people in the video may even be underage, who knows?

[Aziz]

I think this is the most contentious point that you make. Because most of the time you have no idea who these people are, the relationship they have together, etc, it's just a snippet of people doing sexual things. We have no idea whether that "girlfriend" is really a girlfriend or a prostitute who is being exploited by a pimp. Worst case being they could be a sex-slave and considering there are absolutely no regulations in this area we don't know whether the person is or not. Hell these people in the video may even be underage, who knows?

What pimp makes free videos with his prostitutes and puts them up on Xhamster, then cams with other couples with said prostitutes and acts loving with said prostitute?

The pimp game getting mad kinds of soft nowadays?

[bcbm]

Retort 1.

Yes it is easy to see that an average lean gym going guy has more chance of having sex with an average sexy woman who has made a home made porn video than they have bedding Asa Akira.

i think the entire idea of evaluating fantasy masturbation materials on your chance of hooking up with someone in them is kind of weird to be honest. given that they are both people you are probably going to never, ever meet i would say the chances are pretty low all around.


Well this hyper aggressive logic is really creepy.

Summary: You are being way too abrasive to a complete stranger on an internet forum.

there was nothing aggressive or abrasive in my statement, i was simply saying that i don't think you can know for sure when viewing these materials that there is no coercion or exploitation involved.


Or are you implying that most home made porn videos are underhanded coerced public rapes by pressuring boyfriends on their doe eyed pure girlfriends?

and you were calling me abrasive?

i am implying that in many cases there is no way of knowing if anyone in the video meant for it to be posted online. i cant recall many amateur videos where the participants state their desire to be filmed and have that film posted on the internet. there is also a lot of amateur porn that is exploitative and coerced, especially coming from eastern europe and asia. not to mention the 'titles' on many sites are full of suggestions of incest, rape, etc.

[Aziz]

If they are smiling, moaning, kissing and all round looking happy, you might not be able to prove the woman was not coerced/exploited, but its pretty good as far as guesses go.

You can not guarantee something but with this subject, it is pretty obvious women are sexual beings as much so as men and the idea amateur porn is exploitative is pretty obviously wrong, I have yet to see an amateur porno where the woman looks anything but like she is having fun, same goes for ones made.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

What pimp makes free videos with his prostitutes and puts them up on Xhamster, then cams with other couples with said prostitutes and acts loving with said prostitute?

The pimp game getting mad kinds of soft nowadays?
The pimp doesn't have sex with the prostitute, someone pays to have sex with the prostitute and they video-tape the experience and call it "amateur" porn. You really don't think this kind of thing happens?
Or I remember one Dr. Phil show where the huge problem that happened with a couple was the husband secretly video-taped him having sex with his wife and put it online. And just because it's amateur porn doesn't mean you can't sell it, you can make big bucks off of amateur porn.

[Aziz]

The pimp doesn't have sex with the prostitute, someone pays to have sex with the prostitute and they video-tape the experience and call it "amateur" porn. You really don't think this kind of thing happens?
Or I remember one Dr. Phil show where the huge problem that happened with a couple was the husband secretly video-taped him having sex with his wife and put it online. And just because it's amateur porn doesn't mean you can't sell it, you can make big bucks off of amateur porn.

Why would he do this and then put the video up free online?

This has to be the most insignificant and hilarious conspiracy theory I have ever come across.

[Aziz]

There are porn companies that make fake amateur films, in response to this couples have started playing journey in the background of their fuck tapes, because porn companies can not afford to pay to use songs in their videos, so if a guy is having sex with his girlfriend to journey, that shit is legit son.

[Aziz]

The pimp doesn't have sex with the prostitute, someone pays to have sex with the prostitute and they video-tape the experience and call it "amateur" porn. You really don't think this kind of thing happens?
Or I remember one Dr. Phil show where the huge problem that happened with a couple was the husband secretly video-taped him having sex with his wife and put it online. And just because it's amateur porn doesn't mean you can't sell it, you can make big bucks off of amateur porn.

Actually making amateur free porn kind of does mean you can not sell it, who the fuck buys porn, amateur porn especially, when sites have millions of videos for free lol?

[Hermes]

To be honest, I wouldn't really say that I've learned anything from porn. But then, maybe I have, I don't know. I often don't really have a clear memory of when I'm learning something.

[Crux]

Sets you up for a harsh reality when you watch a video of a beautiful woman is screaming up a storm then when its your turn to do your thing in the real world there is nothing but silence and sweaty sweaty shame.

:lol:

Amateur porn is way better, being somewhat of a Connoisseur I will break this down.

A) You know you have a shot with the women in amateur porn.
B) Your penis is a similar size to the guys.
C) No one is being coerced or exploited.
D) You can make your own and peak to epic tracks while making love and share it with the world on Xhamster.
A) No, not necessarily. What's your point?
B) Assuming I have a penis. I mean I do, but you're using the general "you" here.
C) Not necessarily true at all. We live in a society that coerces and exploits women in general.
D) Uhu, thanks for the wisdom, bud.

[Aziz]

A) No, not necessarily. What's your point?
B) Assuming I have a penis. I mean I do, but you're using the general "you" here.
C) Not necessarily true at all. We live in a society that coerces and exploits women in general.
D) Uhu, thanks for the wisdom, bud.

LOL taking point with everything from an uber leftist perspective, you must be fun in real life.

How dare I assume, somebody protect the women, thank god we have over-nicety men to defend this good fight.

At this point being a cliché must be seen as a badge of honour.

[Leftsolidarity]

Ive never really looked at porn as something to learn from. At most I've seen a position or something and been like "that might be fun".

I use it to rub my penis to, not for how to have sex.

[cynicles]

What?! You mean 12 inches isnt average?

[Aziz]

What?! You mean 12 inches isnt average?

Not for white boys..

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Why would he do this and then put the video up free online?

This has to be the most insignificant and hilarious conspiracy theory I have ever come across.
Seriously? My point would pretty much be void if the point was profit making for the person putting it up for free. But then I guess you'd have to question why anyone would pay for sex in the first place. The person would be paying for sex because they want sex, video-taping it would just be the cherry on top.

I mean you really think it's so farfetched to say that people video-tape themselves having sex with prostitutes? And that afterwards they might post it online(either for free or actually selling it).


Actually making amateur free porn kind of does mean you can not sell it, who the fuck buys porn, amateur porn especially, when sites have millions of videos for free lol?
Not true at all, there are tons of sites out there that make you buy amateur porn. I don't know why people would buy porn, amateur or professional, but they do. I would link to some amateur sites that make you pay for their stuff but that isn't appropriate for this forum. It's not very hard to do some research yourself, google can be your friend. According to Wikipedia amateur porn has been called one of the most profitable genres of porn.

[Aziz]

Again, those sites do not sell amateur porn, they sell fake amateur porn, with professional low rate porn stars, made for guys to fantasize over the hot girlfriend fantasy.

I am talking about user uploaded videos of couples fucking each other senseless. there are videos of dudes fucking prostitutes, it is not amateur porn, it is a video of a dude fucking a prostitute. They never look like they are having fun, there is never kissing, no intimate moments, it is the total opposite.

[bcbm]

If they are smiling, moaning, kissing and all round looking happy, you might not be able to prove the woman was not coerced/exploited, but its pretty good as far as guesses go.

this doesn't address any of the concerns i raised, specifically about whether or not they were consciously filmed and wanted the video to be posted online.


You can not guarantee something but with this subject, it is pretty obvious women are sexual beings as much so as men and the idea amateur porn is exploitative is pretty obviously wrong, I have yet to see an amateur porno where the woman looks anything but like she is having fun, same goes for ones made.

no one here has denied that women are sexual beings or that there is amateur pornography where all the participants know what is going on and are comfortable, just that your blanket statements are not completely accurate.


LOL taking point with everything from an uber leftist perspective, you must be fun in real life.

How dare I assume, somebody protect the women, thank god we have over-nicety men to defend this good fight.

At this point being a cliché must be seen as a badge of honour.

i know it is tough to think critically about one of your apparently favorite hobbies but that is not really an excuse to post personal attacks instead of arguments.


Not for white boys..

not for anyone

[Socialism in One Planet]

i'm not sure what to make of amateur porn but the majority of industrial mass-produced porn can't be good for society. i think it teaches a lot of negative attitudes about race, sex, gender, etc. that lead to reactionary views and violence against women (the rape, abuse and chauvinist attitudes towards women a byproduct of this). i wholly agree with radical feminists like robert jensen on this. i'm not sure how his critique fits amateur porn though, since it is a bit different from the stuff sold as consumer product.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Again, those sites do not sell amateur porn, they sell fake amateur porn, with professional low rate porn stars, made for guys to fantasize over the hot girlfriend fantasy.
And what makes you so sure of this? For example the situation on the Dr. Phil show I watched(yes I hate using this as an example), the guy shot videos of him having sex with his wife without her knowing it and posted it online. You had to pay to watch the videos and the whole sells pitch was "watch me fuck my wife without her knowing I'm videotaping it". And people actually payed for it!


I am talking about user uploaded videos of couples fucking each other senseless. there are videos of dudes fucking prostitutes, it is not amateur porn, it is a video of a dude fucking a prostitute. They never look like they are having fun, there is never kissing, no intimate moments, it is the total opposite.
Oh God, talking to you is just ridiculous, apparently you're Mr. Expert of Porn here. We shouldn't even be discussing this so I'll just end it here.

[Aziz]

And what makes you so sure of this? For example the situation on the Dr. Phil show I watched(yes I hate using this as an example), the guy shot videos of him having sex with his wife without her knowing it and posted it online. You had to pay to watch the videos and the whole sells pitch was "watch me fuck my wife without her knowing I'm videotaping it". And people actually payed for it!


Oh God, talking to you is just ridiculous, apparently you're Mr. Expert of Porn here. We shouldn't even be discussing this so I'll just end it here.

Dr phil just got caught being payed over half a million by a pharmaceutics company to push its drugs, or was that drew, anyway, it is hardly relevant to the huge majority of amateur porn.

Damn I am tired, will reply tomorrow, after I have watched some commercial porn, DOUBLE ANAL/facial

[cynicles]

You could start a porn site called "Watch me fuck this horse" and people would pay to see it.

[Aziz]

^^^Type in Goatse on google

[A Revolutionary Tool]

You could start a porn site called "Watch me fuck this horse" and people would pay to see it.
But it wouldn't be amateur, that horse is actually a low-paid actor.

[MrCool]

In some internet forums, Amateur can also be used to define an actor who performs for the first time in a high-end porno.

[Silvr]

The title of the article seems a little strange. Obviously anyone who has head sex before knows firsthand how well mainstream porn measures up to the real thing, and anyone who is a female, knows the female anatomy firsthand. So shouldn't it be more like "The Absurd Myths Porn Teaches Male Virgins About Sex"?

[Silvr]

I also can't help but wonder how many of the hand-wringers on this website manage to square things like this: psychologytoday(DOT)com/blog/all-about-sex/201001/womens-rape-fantasies-how-common-what-do-they-mean

[#FF0000]

LOL taking point with everything from an uber leftist perspective, you must be fun in real life.

How dare I assume, somebody protect the women, thank god we have over-nicety men to defend this good fight.

At this point being a cliché must be seen as a badge of honour.

Hey you are being extremely defensive for no reason.

Plus like bcbm said there is no possible way to know that both people in that video consented to that video being put online.


The title of the article seems a little strange. Obviously anyone who has head sex before knows firsthand how well mainstream porn measures up to the real thing, and anyone who is a female, knows the female anatomy firsthand. So shouldn't it be more like "The Absurd Myths Porn Teaches Male Virgins About Sex"?

Yeah that's true. But either way I don't think anyone in this thread is saying "porn is bad fullstop". It is just bad that there are tons of young people, who know literally nothing thanks to our total lack of comprehensive sex education, are picking up these myths from porn.


I also can't help but wonder how many of the hand-wringers on this website manage to square things like this: psychologytoday(DOT)com/blog/all-about-sex/201001/womens-rape-fantasies-how-common-what-do-they-mean

1) who is hand-wringing
2) it's no big deal. there's nothing wrong or questionable or 'problematic' about consenting adults playing out whatever fantasy they want. Generally speaking.

[Silvr]

Yeah that's true. But either way I don't think anyone in this thread is saying "porn is bad fullstop". It is just bad that there are tons of young people, who know literally nothing thanks to our total lack of comprehensive sex education, are picking up these myths from porn.

Again, I have to correct you when you say young people, because what you really mean is young males, and not just young males, but young males who view porn regularly and have no sexual experience and apparently lack critical thinking skills. In any case, I don't see this as some crisis. When young males that view porn frequently and lack rudimentary critical thinking skills ("OMG you have pubes, wimmin dont have pubes, that's not normal!!" Seriously, what young male is cocky enough to say something like this when he is getting laid for the first time?) have their first sexual experience, it will dispel whatever myths porn has fostered in their minds.



1) who is hand-wringingIt is a trend on this place, and I can see it developing towards that in this thread. Especially with regard to bcbm, who has apparently, unfortunately, recently adopted the 'women are dumb, helpless little children who are defiled by sex' line of argumentation.
[QUOTE]

[#FF0000]

Again, I have to correct you when you say young people, because what you really mean is young males

No. Why would young women be immune to this?


and not just young males, but young males who view porn regularlyYes


and have no sexual experience Yes.


and apparently lack critical thinking skillsNo. Young people who lack education.


In any case, I don't see this as some crisis. Nah I think the lack of decent sex education is a very big problem.


When young males that view porn frequently and lack rudimentary critical thinking skills ("OMG you have pubes, wimmin dont have pubes, that's not normal!!" Seriously, what young male is cocky enough to say something like this when he is getting laid for the first time?) have their first sexual experience, it will dispel whatever myths porn has fostered in their minds.Except for the unsafe or demeaning habits they would pick up from porn without any context whatsoever (not every woman likes being called a 'slut' during sex, to take an example from the article.)


It is a trend on this place "I actually don't have any reason to say what I said but I said it anyway and i will keep saying it"


and I can see it developing towards that in this thread. Especially with regard to bcbm, who has apparently, unfortunately, recently adopted the 'women are dumb, helpless little children who are defiled by sex' line of argumentation. So the only person you can point out as actually doing any hand-wringing is bcbm, who never did any hand-wringing and who never said anything that would imply the whole "women r helpless" thing.

Please show me a single direct quote from bcbm in this thread that would imply the whole 'women r helpless' line.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

This thread is somewhat degenerating, probably because teen-aged males here get defensive about liking porn.

I mean, I like porn, but there are some serious, serious issues with the porn industry and the de facto rape that seems to go on quite a lot of the time. If anyone has seen outtakes from films, you'll see just how badly women are treated in the porn industry.

Also, what do people think about the strange phenomenon that in porn, men are paid far less than women? I mean, it's a dangerous phenomenon from a theoretical perspective because it actually entrenches the belief that demand factors can drive price, thus validating bourgeois economic theory. It also validates the Value of a Statistical Life, another bourgeois theory from the realm of Cost Benefit Analysis, which shows the value of some person's remuneration [the value of a statistical life] as a trade-off with the danger inherent in their job. Clearly in porn, women face a greater danger than men.

[Crux]

LOL taking point with everything from an uber leftist perspective, you must be fun in real life.

How dare I assume, somebody protect the women, thank god we have over-nicety men to defend this good fight.

At this point being a cliché must be seen as a badge of honour.
Too tough questions for you?

[Aziz]

Too tough questions for you?

No, I am just saying, if a woman poster had said she likes amateur porn because they look the same as her, not ultra thin with fake boobs, you would not go, how dare you, there are male posters on here. Yet I said the men in amateur porn have normal size dicks, that was apparently wrong, as there are female poster?

:rolleyes:

[Crux]

No, I am just saying, if a woman poster had said she likes amateur porn because they look the same as her, not ultra thin with fake boobs, you would not go, how dare you, there are male posters on here. Yet I said the men in amateur porn have normal size dicks, that was apparently wrong, as there are female poster?

:rolleyes:
Well I am sorry if I offended you, mr. amateur pornography expert.
Some people get amusingly defensive about their porn. And I don't think amateru pornography is necessarily the full solution here, you know.

[Aziz]

sorry

I forgive you.

[o well this is ok I guess]

When I start thinking about how ridiculous the porn I'm watching is I only fap harder.

[#FF0000]

No, I am just saying, if a woman poster had said she likes amateur porn because they look the same as her, not ultra thin with fake boobs, you would not go, how dare you, there are male posters on here. Yet I said the men in amateur porn have normal size dicks, that was apparently wrong, as there are female poster?

nah someone just pointed out that you used the word "your" like everyone here is a dude. It is really not that big a deal and I don't know why you are getting so upset.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

When I start thinking about how ridiculous the porn I'm watching is I only fap harder.

I'm sorry, in what way is this a useful post at all?

This is the Discrimination forum and part of Womens' Struggles, which is just as important as Learning, Politics, History, Theory and every other forum.

And, dare I say it, this is the place where serious opinions are ventured on the exploitation of women, BMEs and any other group persecuted under Capitalism.

Why don't you confine these sorts of posts to Chit Chat in the future and dare I say it, if you don't take the issue of Feminism seriously, perhaps OI is the best place for you.

I'm absolutely sick of these pathetic posts cropping up, derailing serious and important discussions. It's out of order to the extreme. The issue of rape and exploitation in pornography is a serious issue and whilst we may all watch porn, you should endeavour to take a more serious attitude towards the inherent issues underlying the porn industry and its treatment of women, in this kind of forum.

[Aziz]

I'm sorry, in what way is this a useful post at all?

This is the Discrimination forum and part of Womens' Struggles, which is just as important as Learning, Politics, History, Theory and every other forum.

And, dare I say it, this is the place where serious opinions are ventured on the exploitation of women, BMEs and any other group persecuted under Capitalism.

Why don't you confine these sorts of posts to Chit Chat in the future and dare I say it, if you don't take the issue of Feminism seriously, perhaps OI is the best place for you.

I'm absolutely sick of these pathetic posts cropping up, derailing serious and important discussions. It's out of order to the extreme. The issue of rape and exploitation in pornography is a serious issue and whilst we may all watch porn, you should endeavour to take a more serious attitude towards the inherent issues underlying the porn industry and its treatment of women, in this kind of forum.

I liked the post, so did other people, if you don't like it don't make a post just to tell us you don't like it, how self obsessed are you Bro?
This is a forum, it is not like a great one liner by that guy is harming you, in fact, i would wager that more people disliked the sentiments of your post than disliked his.

[Leftsolidarity]

I liked the post, so did other people, if you don't like it don't make a post just to tell us you don't like it, how self obsessed are you Bro?
This is a forum, it is not like a great one liner by that guy is harming you, in fact, i would wager that more people disliked the sentiments of your post than disliked his.

I dislike yours more.


To The Boss: while it may have obviously been a joke, it also pointed out how not everyone looks at porn as a realistic thing. That they don't view it as something to learn from but as what it is meant for; to fap too.

[Aziz]

#FF0000 liked the post, then removed his like haha, what a wimp.

Back to the thread.

Porn is a business, like any business it is exploitative, except it is far better paid than most minimum wage jobs like I work. Amateur porn is a free video that two people enjoyed making, or one or maybe three, depending on type, there is nothing to discuss.

If you like it watch, if you like making porn make it.

Making this a political debate is moronic.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

yeah I know it was a joke but it just wasn't funny, given the context.

you're right, and i'm not anti-porn or anything, I like porn. But it's like, some people just can't have a mature discussion about naked women and sex without getting a hard on and going straight over to redtube. It's not only immature, it's insulting and insinuates that some people only think of women as sex objects of their wanton desires.

Not that I blame people for having desires, I do too, but there's a time and a place. I exploded at that joke post because it's symptomatic of what we're seeing all over Revleft right now: a basic reduction in the quality and seriousness of much of the posting.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

#FF0000 liked the post, then removed his like haha, what a wimp.

Back to the thread.

Porn is a business, like any business it is exploitative, except it is far better paid than most minimum wage jobs like I work. Amateur porn is a free video that two people enjoyed making, or one or maybe three, depending on type, there is nothing to discuss.

If you like it watch, if you like making porn make it.

Making this a political debate is moronic.

What if the amateur video was posted online with one person's consent?

Porn often involves non-consensual sex, or a grey area. Is rape just 'like any business...exploitative'? No, it's a serious matter so, whilst you may like fapping and whilst I may like fapping, the issues surrounding porn are serious. That someone gets paid well for this appalling treatment is neither here nor there and its quite insulting that you try to qualify it like that.

[Aziz]

yeah I know it was a joke but it just wasn't funny, given the context.

you're right, and i'm not anti-porn or anything, I like porn. But it's like, some people just can't have a mature discussion about naked women and sex without getting a hard on and going straight over to redtube. It's not only immature, it's insulting and insinuates that some people only think of women as sex objects of their wanton desires.

Not that I blame people for having desires, I do too, but there's a time and a place. I exploded at that joke post because it's symptomatic of what we're seeing all over Revleft right now: a basic reduction in the quality and seriousness of much of the posting.

My girlfriend bought me a white sailor suit and would whistle at me and pinch my bum, women can be the biggest chauvinists ever, its just men can not complain cos we like it.

It is like the south park episode when the teacher is a paedo to Ike and everyone is like, what the kids getting his dick sucked, that ain't no crime ha ha.

[Aziz]

What if the amateur video was posted online with one person's consent?

Porn often involves non-consensual sex, or a grey area. Is rape just 'like any business...exploitative'? No, it's a serious matter so, whilst you may like fapping and whilst I may like fapping, the issues surrounding porn are serious. That someone gets paid well for this appalling treatment is neither here nor there and its quite insulting that you try to qualify it like that.

Do you have sources to back that up, or are you just talking out of your ass Bro?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Chauvinism is the belief in superiority, your girlfriend playing with you has nothing to do with it.

You just sound like you're denying that sexism is, by and large, a one-way issue. Yes women can be sexist against men in isolated cases, but the issue is that in general, women are the oppressed sex, men the oppressors. This is a general issue of the sexes, not an individual issue; it doesn't mean every man is a chauvinist nor every woman not a chauvinist.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Do you have sources to back that up, or are you just talking out of your ass Bro?

no, i don't actually have the resources to find the details of every source of every amateur porn vid and conduct a market research on the consensual status of their sex exploits.

check some porn outtakes though, the degradation of the women is appalling - they're routinely just raped, just cos the guys wanna get their rocks off.

[Aziz]

Chauvinism is the belief in superiority, your girlfriend playing with you has nothing to do with it.

You just sound like you're denying that sexism is, by and large, a one-way issue. Yes women can be sexist against men in isolated cases, but the issue is that in general, women are the oppressed sex, men the oppressors. This is a general issue of the sexes, not an individual issue; it doesn't mean every man is a chauvinist nor every woman not a chauvinist.

I am saying large numbers of my girlfriends have behaved in the bedroom in a way that if they were men, would be called sexist or chauvinist.

Women are oppressed and sexism is a big problem, but not in the bedroom, not in matter of sex but rather in terms of economics and discrimination.

[Aziz]

no, i don't actually have the resources to find the details of every source of every amateur porn vid and conduct a market research on the consensual status of their sex exploits.

check some porn outtakes though, the degradation of the women is appalling - they're routinely just raped, just cos the guys wanna get their rocks off.

This is bullshit, if they are raped on tape and that tape is sold, you can guarantee a dude is going prison, stop lying, it degrades your argument and makes you look desperate and like you have an angle.

[Leftsolidarity]

Women are oppressed and sexism is a big problem, but not in the bedroom, not in matter of sex but rather in terms of economics and discrimination.

What? That is complete and utter bullshit. Maybe you haven't hard of this thing called "rape".

[Aziz]

Yeah, that is a crime, irrelevant to whether or not women are repressed sexually in 2012, in Europe they are most certainly not.

Way to try and manipulate discourse by throwing the word rape around as if I condone it.

[#FF0000]

#FF0000 liked the post, then removed his like haha, what a wimp.

yea i decided it's a bad idea to be encouraging off-topic one-liners (even though i post off-topic one liners on the regular)


Porn is a business, like any business it is exploitative, except it is far better paid than most minimum wage jobs like I work. Amateur porn is a free video that two people enjoyed making, or one or maybe three, depending on type, there is nothing to discuss.

Nah the thing you're missing is that what you said earlier was wrong. Amateur porn isn't necessarily 'more progressive' or 'less problematic' or whatever people say. I mean like was said over and over, you don't know the context of that video and you don't know whether both people in it consented for the video to be put online.

That's all anyone said and I don't understand why that is a contentious point haha

[Aziz]

yea i decided it's a bad idea to be encouraging off-topic one-liners (even though i post off-topic one liners on the regular)



Nah the thing you're missing is that what you said earlier was wrong. Amateur porn isn't necessarily 'more progressive' or 'less problematic' or whatever people say. I mean like was said over and over, you don't know the context of that video and you don't know whether both people in it consented for the video to be put online.

That's all anyone said and I don't understand why that is a contentious point haha
Because it is moronic, watch amateur porn, how many of those women don't know they are being filmed, they look into the camera and move to get good view of them, your living in some crazy conspiracy rape bubble regarding amateur porn and women, it is rather offensive, it also treats women as if they were not capable of enjoying riding a dick, how about let consenting adults do what they want and how about not throwing statements about this subject around with no sources or facts.

Thanks.

[Aziz]

What? That is complete and utter bullshit. Maybe you haven't hard of this thing called "rape".

Rape is disgusting and horrible, however I genuinely don't get how it is sexist.

The majority of men are heterosexual, who are they going to rape, a man or woman?

Is a man raping another man sexist too?

This is 100% genuine question.

Before anyone asks, yes I acknowledge sexism is rampant in society and am not saying this is not the case (god its sad you have to put disclaimers around some people)

[#FF0000]

Yeah, that is a crime, irrelevant to whether or not women are repressed sexually in 2012, in Europe they are most certainly not.

Nah people in general are pretty repressed in the US. Women are definitely shamed for embracing their sexuality these days.


This is bullshit, if they are raped on tape and that tape is sold, you can guarantee a dude is going prison, stop lying, it degrades your argument and makes you look desperate and like you have an angle.

Yeah I mean that isn't necessarily true and there's been one hella recent case where a couple teenagers passed around pictures and video of rape and got away with it thanks to a plea bargain.

What I'm saying is that it's hella dumb to go with this just-world mentality of 'oh man rapists will def. go to jail when they are caught' because 1) they are so rarely caught and 2) they get away with it p. often, one way or another.

But that's a whole other issue because I most amateur porn almost certainly isn't rape. The consent thing is an issue when it comes to posting the video online in the first place, though.


I am saying large numbers of my girlfriends have behaved in the bedroom in a way that if they were men, would be called sexist or chauvinist.

Maybe by a dummy. A dude who is into being the dom in bdsm isn't necessarily a sexist or a chauvinist for what he does with other consenting adults in the bedroom and I don't think people around here would say that he is.


My girlfriend bought me a white sailor suit and would whistle at me and pinch my bum, women can be the biggest chauvinists ever, its just men can not complain cos we like it.

But what she did isn't necessarily chauvinistic or anything like that and it's p. clear you guys are cool with it. It isn't hard to understand that the example you gave is v. different from an actual case of sexual harassment, where the pinching and whistling is unwelcome.

[Aziz]

The problem with the feminist angle on that though Bro is that it relies on the idea that people don't like to be viewed as sexual objects.

Go to a club, every guy in his tight shirt and jeans and every girl in her skimpy dress with tits hanging out wants to be seen as a fuck toy.

This generation loves sex, loves no strings animal sex and the old feminist clichés are not flying with the women or men out there.

It is so 1970s Bro.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Go to a club, every guy in his tight shirt and jeans and every girl in her skimpy dress with tits hanging out wants to be seen as a fuck toy.


What are you on?

Have you not thought that guys and girls want to look good when they go out cos...they want to look good?

You have this sexist mentality ingrained that every woman who looks hot by dressing in a skimpy skirt and low cut top is 'asking for it'. Which often leads on to rape apologia.

[Aziz]

What are you on?

Have you not thought that guys and girls want to look good when they go out cos...they want to look good?

You have this sexist mentality ingrained that every woman who looks hot by dressing in a skimpy skirt and low cut top is 'asking for it'. Which often leads on to rape apologia.

Yeah, thats me the rape apologist.

Please do not use slander here, it is not welcome. It seems you have a problem with women liking sex, someone have some issues they need to talk about?

It is so patronising to assume there must be some other reason all young people are wearing less, fucking more, don't let it be that sex is no longer held in some mystical box but is a casual activity we all like to do.

Anyway this thread has grown tiresome, the baseless arguments against amateur porn and the scared look in your eyes as discourse verges of your narrow ultra sensitive path is killing my mojo.

[Aziz]

What are you on?

Have you not thought that guys and girls want to look good when they go out cos...they want to look good?

You have this sexist mentality ingrained that every woman who looks hot by dressing in a skimpy skirt and low cut top is 'asking for it'. Which often leads on to rape apologia.

As opposed to your sexist mentality that they can't like being seen as sex objects like men like to be seen?

Ain't you cute.

[#FF0000]

watch amateur porn, how many of those women don't know they are being filmed, they look into the camera and move to get good view of them

that doesn't mean that they know or consented to the video being put online.


your living in some crazy conspiracy rape bubble regarding amateur porn and womennah i'm just making a statement that is pretty much 100% true: you have no way of knowing whether or not both people in the video wanted it to be put online.

If both participants don't mind it being online, that's cool! I'm sure there's tons of people who are definitely into that and I know for a fact that there are couples who make porn to put on the internet.

But I'm just sayin' that you can't possibly know in a lot of situations. not sure why you are so upset at this!

ps i was never specifically talking about women haha


it is rather offensive, it also treats women as if they were not capable of enjoying riding a dick, how about let consenting adults do what they want and how about not throwing statements about this subject around with no sources or facts.
is it possible to know 100% of the time whether or not both participants in an amateur video consented


The problem with the feminist angle on that though Bro is that it relies on the idea that people don't like to be viewed as sexual objects.

Nah actually. People like that sometimes but being treated like a thing in every day isn't cool.


Go to a club, every guy in his tight shirt and jeans and every girl in her skimpy dress with tits hanging out wants to be seen as a fuck toy.
haha i remember a video a person made asking girls who went to bars in Penn State if they had to deal with sexual harassment and tons were like "yeah it's annoying as hell!"

A tiny dress isn't consent, son! For someone who gets mondo-mad at someone for "throwing statements around with no facts" you sure do love making assumptions and acting like they are true for everyone with no exceptions and with nothing to back any of them up.


This generation loves sex, loves no strings animal sex and the old feminist clichés are not flying with the women or men out there.idk man i talk to loads of women and I don't usually hang out w/ people of the ACTIVIST/FEMINIST milieu and they are all like "damn son people are pigs to us a lot of the time college/work sucks for us sometimes".

[#FF0000]

As opposed to your sexist mentality that they can't like being seen as sex objects like men like to be seen

yo your mentality that women always like being seen as sex objects (and that men always like to be seen as sex objects) is literally just as sexist

you are bad at thinking, dude.

[Aziz]

that doesn't mean that they know or consented to the video being put online.

nah i'm just making a statement that is pretty much 100% true: you have no way of knowing whether or not both people in the video wanted it to be put online.

If both participants don't mind it being online, that's cool! I'm sure there's tons of people who are definitely into that and I know for a fact that there are couples who make porn to put on the internet.

But I'm just sayin' that you can't possibly know in a lot of situations. not sure why you are so upset at this!

ps i was never specifically talking about women haha

is it possible to know 100% of the time whether or not both participants in an amateur video consented



Nah actually. People like that sometimes but being treated like a thing in every day isn't cool.

haha i remember a video a person made asking girls who went to bars in Penn State if they had to deal with sexual harassment and tons were like "yeah it's annoying as hell!"

A tiny dress isn't consent, son! For someone who gets mondo-mad at someone for "throwing statements around with no facts" you sure do love making assumptions and acting like they are true for everyone with no exceptions and with nothing to back any of them up.

idk man i talk to loads of women and I don't usually hang out w/ people of the ACTIVIST/FEMINIST milieu and they are all like "damn son people are pigs to us a lot of the time college/work sucks for us sometimes".

The activist female milieu is hardly the best representation of the majority of females lol.

[#FF0000]

The activist female milieu is hardly the best representation of the majority of females lol.

i said they aren't of the activist/feminist milieu haha

[Leftsolidarity]

The problem with the feminist angle on that though Bro is that it relies on the idea that people don't like to be viewed as sexual objects.

Go to a club, every guy in his tight shirt and jeans and every girl in her skimpy dress with tits hanging out wants to be seen as a fuck toy.

This generation loves sex, loves no strings animal sex and the old feminist clichés are not flying with the women or men out there.

It is so 1970s Bro.

Heres a post that was just put on Facebook by a friend of mine:


My baby mama got fired from The District last night because she told some regular customers not to grope her. It happened once before also and the owner apologized for her and bought them all free drinks. She was the last original bartender because they fired all the other girls for the same type of shit.

Yeah, everyone likes to be viewed as a sexual object.

[Aziz]

Well some ugly fat dude hitting on a barista at starbucks sucks.

A ripped guy with a tan and nice smile working his lines at the bar is cool.

Apples and oranges.

If some fat girl with too much make up hits on me and letches its shit and uncomfortable, if a hot girl starts chatting to me its all good.

Obviously if a dude is all aggressive and shit then He is a knob head.

[Aziz]

Heres a post that was just put on Facebook by a friend of mine:



Yeah, everyone likes to be viewed as a sexual object.

Wanting to be seen as a sexual object and wanting to be groped by a stranger are not mutually inclusive.

Do you have any arguments that don't involve straw men?

[Leftsolidarity]

Wanting to be seen as a sexual object and wanting to be groped by a stranger are not mutually exclusive.

Do you have any arguments that don't involve straw men?

What the fuck are you talking about. I've made statements in defense of you not being a sexist and bullying troll. I see I was wrong.

[Drosophila]

Rape is disgusting and horrible, however I genuinely don't get how it is sexist.

Seriously? Rape is almost always sexist.

[#FF0000]

Well some ugly fat dude hitting on a barista at starbucks sucks.

not necessarily


A ripped guy with a tan and nice smile working his lines at the bar is cool.not necessarily


If some fat girl with too much make up hits on me and letches its shit and uncomfortable, if a hot girl starts chatting to me its all good.
neat


Obviously if a dude is all aggressive and shit then He is a knob head.yeah

yo also you don't really know anything about feminism if you think feminists these days aren't sex-positive as fuck. just something i thought of.

[Aziz]

lol

Way to take me out of context, DYEL?

[#FF0000]

What the fuck are you talking about. I've made statements in defense of you not being a sexist and bullying troll. I see I was wrong.

i dont think hes a troll. just bad at rational thought.

edit: also hella defensive for no reason.

[Drosophila]

i dont think hes a troll. just bad at rational thought.

Look at his posts in the "One Party State" thread and you'll see that he's a blatant troll and an idiot.

[#FF0000]

Look at his posts in the "One Party State" thread and you'll see that he's a blatant troll and an idiot.

nah you guys are just easily trolled by people who make bad posts.

lets get back on topic and cut out personal attacks and stuff

[Raúl Duke]

Even when I was a kid, I knew that most things in porn are fantasy.
I mean, sure, you can maybe have sex the way they do in porn but I assume most people don't.

This article states the same thing, even Stoya a porn actress said that it's fantasy on tumblr.

However, the fact that people out there can't discern the difference between real life sexual experience and porn fantasy I see as pretty problematic.

[Aziz]

Shit I ain't liked on an internet forum full of feminists, Leninist and vegan crunk night students.

FUUUARK!

Can I change my answers.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

As opposed to your sexist mentality that they can't like being seen as sex objects like men like to be seen?

Ain't you cute.

I just don't assume.

To be honest, I don't see how you can be proud that you're assuming that all women who dress skimpily must just be some sex-mad person.

You're a guy, you don't know that.

And no, I have no issues, partly because I actually respect women. You should try it; funnily enough the more you respect women, the more they actually like you, and the more you leer at them as some sort of sex object, the more they'll think you're a sexist scumbag.

[bcbm]

Especially with regard to bcbm, who has apparently, unfortunately, recently adopted the 'women are dumb, helpless little children who are defiled by sex' line of argumentation.

really? where?

i love the people on this site
'you cant always know if a video was posted with consent'
'why do you think women are helpless little children who are defiled by sex?!'


Rape is disgusting and horrible, however I genuinely don't get how it is sexist.

The majority of men are heterosexual, who are they going to rape, a man or woman?

why do you think men are dumb, sex crazed animals who cannot help but rape?

[#FF0000]

However, the fact that people out there can't discern the difference between real life sexual experience and porn fantasy I see as pretty problematic.

Yeah that is the operative thing. The article isn't really an indictment of pornography (it even says that on the first page!). The problem's not porn, but lack of education.

And it's a real problem! I know people who have asked me what was going wrong with their sex life because their sex wasn't loud like it is in porn.

EDIT: hey i think it is best to just ignore aziz until he can learn how to post calmly and respond to what people have said and not what he imagines they said

[Raúl Duke]

I feel like this thread has been derailed into something borderline off-topic...

On the subject, while porn has played a role in propelling these myths and is causing this problem where people can't discern between fantasy/role-play and reality in matters sexual...

I don't think it's the medium to blame, but rather the content (and even then, on the internet, the content is rather varied); yet even if that's the case I see this problem as being more of a problem with sexual education (in the US) and some Americans' inability to discern fantasy/reality sex than of porn itself.

I watched my fair share of pornographic materials and I know about these 'myths' and how absurd they are; but I probably had a better sex ed than the people mentioned in the article who don't know what a clit is and thought pubic hair doesn't exist.

[Aziz]

really? where?

i love the people on this site
'you cant always know if a video was posted with consent'
'why do you think women are helpless little children who are defiled by sex?!'



why do you think men are dumb, sex crazed animals who cannot help but rape?

No my point was if a rapist is heterosexual he is going to rape a woman, I was asking therefore how is that sexist, when a gay man rapes a gay man is this sexist?

Is not just just a fact all rape is horrible and degrading and that it is not sexist just because it is man on woman, for example women can rape women, is that sexist?

[Aziz]

I feel like this thread has been derailed into something borderline off-topic...

On the subject, while porn has played a role in propelling these myths and is causing this problem where people can't discern between fantasy/role-play and reality in matters sexual...

I don't think it's the medium to blame, but rather the content (and even then, on the internet, the content is rather varied); yet even if that's the case I see this problem as being more of a problem with sexual education (in the US) and some Americans' inability to discern fantasy/reality sex than of porn itself.

I watched my fair share of pornographic materials and I know about these 'myths' and how absurd they are; but I probably had a better sex ed than the people mentioned in the article who don't know what a clit is and thought pubic hair doesn't exist.

When I was about 12 this girl sucked me off in the toilets at school and I was about to shag her and she pulled her knickers down and she had a massive bush and I just panicked and told her to just carry on sucking.

I told my mate and he took the piss out of me for weeks and told the girl I had a mad crush on.

[#FF0000]

No my point was if a rapist is heterosexual he is going to rape a woman, I was asking therefore how is that sexist, when a gay man rapes a gay man is this sexist?

Is not just just a fact all rape is horrible and degrading and that it is not sexist just because it is man on woman, for example women can rape women, is that sexist?

nah see the problem is that rape is overwhelmingly a problem women have to sort of be aware of around men. that's the thing.

Rape can happen to anyone and be committed by anyone, but it's extremely uncommon (outside of prison).

Oh and huge problem with this article: they used the most ridiculous and most out-there examples they possibly could have used which just makes people say "PEOPLE AREN'T THAT DUMB" and just makes the article less effective at making it's point.

But it's alternet so who'da thunk they'd write a shitty article on an easy topic to write about.

There's tons of things people get skewed ideas about from lack of sex education though, e.g. avg size of body parts, how long sex should last, THE IMPORTANCE OF FOREPLAY, the fact that not everyone is into certain things (even if they are very vanilla sex acts).

So yeah.

[Aziz]

nah see the problem is that rape is overwhelmingly a problem women have to sort of be aware of around men. that's the thing.

Rape can happen to anyone and be committed by anyone, but it's extremely uncommon (outside of prison).

Surely that is because the vast majority of men are heterosexual. This stands to reason the vast majority of rapes will be against women.

Obviously patriarchy and social conditioning are massive factors in rape.

But seeing a hot girl as someone you just want to spend one night drinking, dancing, taking E and fucking is nothing like being OK with violently raping someone against their will.

Quite frankly the lame attempts to connect the two are as offensive to rational thought as they are boring to have to keep responding to.

[Welshy]

But seeing a hot girl as someone you just want to spend one night drinking, dancing, taking E and fucking is nothing like being OK with violently raping someone against their will.


I think any sex that involves taking drugs before hand unless the two people agree upon it before taking the drugs is in a grey zone.

[Aziz]

I think any sex that involves taking drugs before hand unless the two people agree upon it before taking the drugs is in a grey zone.

Cos your lame, how many people out on a saturday night are sober?

[#FF0000]

Surely that is because the vast majority of men are heterosexual. This stands to reason the vast majority of rapes will be against women.

Naah I'd say there's more to it than that. (http://psycnet.apa.org/?&fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/0022-3514.55.5.795) In some/a lot of cases, at least.(Ain't the link to the full study but this is such a big issue, you know?)

And at the very least sexism has a huge role in minimizing the importance of rape and making it very easy for rapists to get away and very hard for survivors to get the help they need.


But seeing a hot girl as someone you just want to spend one night drinking, dancing, taking E and fucking is nothing like being OK with violently raping someone against their will.

Quite frankly the lame attempts to connect the two are as offensive to rational thought as they are boring to have to keep responding to.

I honestly don't think people are saying that they are remotely similar. People did say, though, that your statement that "women who dress provocatively want to be looked at as fuck toys" is extremely similar to the old excuse "she was asking for it".

[#FF0000]

Cos your lame, how many people out on a saturday night are sober?

No dude it is most definitely a gray area. No one's saying drunk sex is always, definitely rape, but it's definitely a gray area unless both participants are clear and enthusiastic in their consent.

Unless they are drunk beyond the pale

[Welshy]

Cos your lame, how many people out on a saturday night are sober?

I drink and party, but I know better than to try to have sex with a drunk girl or guy. I'm not stupid enough to think someone who isn't sober can think clearly enough to fully consent to sex, but then again I don't need alcohol and drugs to get laid.

[Aziz]

Naah I'd say there's more to it than that. (http://psycnet.apa.org/?&fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/0022-3514.55.5.795) In some/a lot of cases, at least.(Ain't the link to the full study but this is such a big issue, you know?)

And at the very least sexism has a huge role in minimizing the importance of rape and making it very easy for rapists to get away and very hard for survivors to get the help they need.



I honestly don't think people are saying that they are remotely similar. People did say, though, that your statement that "women who dress provocatively want to be looked at as fuck toys" is extremely similar to the old excuse "she was asking for it".

No they are asking for the buff guys with ripped abs to pay them attention, not to rape them.

Same as if a dude goes out in a super tight shirt, has his hair immaculate and is dancing like the brother oh Hercules, he is looking for attention, not for women to drug him, lock him in a basement and use him as a gimp.

[Aziz]

I drink and party, but I know better than to try to have sex with a drunk girl or guy. I'm not stupid enough to think someone who isn't sober can think clearly enough to fully consent to sex, but then again I don't need alcohol and drugs to get laid.

Well we aint all as badass as you are we homie, some of us are mere mortals in your presence.

Well when you aint hunting moose with Palin eh:lol:

[#FF0000]

No they are asking for the buff guys with ripped abs to pay them attention, not to rape them.

Yeah, maybe, sure. I think we're clear that there's a difference between attention and rape and harassment so.

[Welshy]

Well we aint all as badass as you are we homie, some of us are mere mortals in your presence.

Well when you aint hunting moose with Palin eh:lol:

Wrong part of the country, though my accent makes me sound like her sometimes.

[Aziz]

Wrong part of the country, though my accent makes me sound like her sometimes.

Thought you were from Wales, your a gosh darnit yankee?

[bcbm]

No my point was if a rapist is heterosexual he is going to rape a woman, I was asking therefore how is that sexist, when a gay man rapes a gay man is this sexist?

Is not just just a fact all rape is horrible and degrading and that it is not sexist just because it is man on woman, for example women can rape women, is that sexist?

rape is just one part of a much larger pattern of sexual violence and harassment directed disproportionately at women.


Cos your lame, how many people out on a saturday night are sober?

not all sex while intoxicated is rape, but it is undeniable that alcohol and drugs are often the weapon of choice for rapists

[Aziz]

Yeah, maybe, sure. I think we're clear that there's a difference between attention and rape and harassment so.

Obviously lol, what the fuck did you think I meant, that women want to be sexually assaulted by strangers at work???

OOKK...

[Aziz]

rape is just one part of a much larger pattern of sexual violence and harassment directed disproportionately at women.



not all sex while intoxicated is rape, but it is undeniable that alcohol and drugs are often the weapon of choice for rapists

We should ban consenting adults from fucking after partying then!!1

The left can be so funny, it is like alienation is so desired they come up with the craziest stances ever.

I just imagined communist party members witnessing outside a nightclub with drunk sex is sometimes rape fliers :D

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Obviously lol, what the fuck did you think I meant, that women want to be sexually assaulted by strangers at work???

OOKK...

Given that you're on a revolutionary leftist forum, have you considered perhaps taking a more conciliatory tone and replacing the 'lol haha women'-type posts with an attitude that might actually allow you to learn a bit more about feminism?

I do sympathise because I find that as a guy, it's difficult sometimes to get your head around issues relating to feminism because, let's face it, i'm not the victim of sexist abuse directed to women. But I think it's a vital plank of Socialism, as women represent roughly half the population of the world, and so are the greatest 'minority' group in the world to face systematic discrimination.

Just sayin'. There are some good posters on here, i'm sure you'll find a lot of them engaging if you stop having arguments with them! :)

[#FF0000]

Obviously lol, what the fuck did you think I meant, that women want to be sexually assaulted by strangers at work???

OOKK...

attention and harassment i meant

yeah throwing rape in there was pretty unnecessary

[#FF0000]

I just imagined communist party members witnessing outside a nightclub with drunk sex is sometimes rape fliers :D

dude that very post you quoted said the exact opposite of that

[Aziz]

It wasnt so much a rebuttal oh his post, I was kinda adding to it, was too lazy to explain.

[Rottenfruit]

The Absurd Myths Porn Teaches Us About Sex (http://www.alternet.org/story/154699/the_absurd_myths_porn_teaches_us_about_sex?page=0% 2C0)

Restarting the never-ending porn debate bound to happen on a forum full of male teens with this pretty good piece.

Yes Porn aint real and how Bruce Willis guns down scores of guys with machine guns without getting hit once is also unreal both are acted with scenarios that do not happend in real life, like the classic sterotypical porn scene of a plumber and chiakawa music kicking in

Who the hell uses porn anyway for learning how to have sex?

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Because it is moronic, watch amateur porn, how many of those women don't know they are being filmed, they look into the camera and move to get good view of them, your living in some crazy conspiracy rape bubble regarding amateur porn and women, it is rather offensive, it also treats women as if they were not capable of enjoying riding a dick, how about let consenting adults do what they want and how about not throwing statements about this subject around with no sources or facts.

Thanks.
Just because they consent to being video-taped doesn't mean they consent to it being distributed anywhere. When a girl sends me a naked picture it doesn't mean that's consent for me to put it up on the internet or to show it to anybody. Some people like to video-tape themselves having sex.

When I was in high school there was a group of guys who had a competition of who could sleep with the hottest girls they could. They would take pictures and videos of them when the girls didn't know and use it as proof of what they did. They could easily have put it up onto the internet as amateur porn and you would have no idea that it's two people who are underage and one doesn't know they're being videotaped.

You as the viewer has no idea the context unless they explicitly say in the video that it's consensual sex or that it's consensual that it be put up on the internet. How you can try and argue against this point is just beyond me or why you would in the first place. Maybe it makes you sleep/jack off better at night, but you're just lying to yourself if that's the case.

[#FF0000]

Who the hell uses porn anyway for learning how to have sex?

Without any context it'd be easy for people, especially young people, to develop perceptions and expectations from what they see in porn.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Without any context it'd be easy for people, especially young people, to develop perceptions and expectations from what they see in porn.
Exactly. When you're young and all you know about sex is from porn what do you expect to think? All I had ever known about sex was what I saw in porn and a few guys(who probably were lying about their experiences in hindsight), so when I first had sex it was totally different from what I expected. Although I never thought women didn't have hair down there, I thought it would have lasted longer and that there would be a little more noise than there was...

[o well this is ok I guess]

I'm sorry, in what way is this a useful post at all?

This is the Discrimination forum and part of Womens' Struggles, which is just as important as Learning, Politics, History, Theory and every other forum.

And, dare I say it, this is the place where serious opinions are ventured on the exploitation of women, BMEs and any other group persecuted under Capitalism.

Why don't you confine these sorts of posts to Chit Chat in the future and dare I say it, if you don't take the issue of Feminism seriously, perhaps OI is the best place for you.

I'm absolutely sick of these pathetic posts cropping up, derailing serious and important discussions. It's out of order to the extreme. The issue of rape and exploitation in pornography is a serious issue and whilst we may all watch porn, you should endeavour to take a more serious attitude towards the inherent issues underlying the porn industry and its treatment of women, in this kind of forum. If you'd like me to apologize for not being as serious as you, I can. And if you want me to admit that the way in which women are portrayed in pornography is absurd and creates the idea of women as a sex object, I will. And I can most certainly agree with many sentiments expressed on the topic of rape in this thread. They're very true. But that is not because these sentiments are groundbreaking or anything like that. Rather, it's because I've heard them all before and that they've been repeated ad nauseum (and the same goes for the opposing views).
Let us face it: porn is boring once you end up thinking about it (it's a wonder we still watch it). It's like a Michael Bay film or a tv commercial: it's essentially the same thing or image thrown back at us with a different colour or sales package. Fake breasts, flat dialogue, ancient teacher-student/brother-sister/paying-eastern-european-girls-off-the-street scenarios, unless one limits themselves to their favourite brand of porn they've seen all there is to see of porn. And, really, the same can be said of this sort of discussion.
I am not saying that these issues are not important. They are very important. However, the way in which we discuss them is vastly irrelevant.
What I am trying to say is that all I really want is to learn something new, as I know that I'm not particularly knowledgeable on these sorts of things. However, nothing new ever seems to be said.
And, if I may add, what do you think my skin colour is? And my gender? And my sexuality?

[bcbm]

We should ban consenting adults from fucking after partying then!!1

The left can be so funny, it is like alienation is so desired they come up with the craziest stances ever.

I just imagined communist party members witnessing outside a nightclub with drunk sex is sometimes rape fliers :D

do you ever address the issue the post is raising or just go on these weird lolrants about nothing anyone is saying?

[Ele'ill]

Don't worry, you all just got trolled by Aziz. Heading back onto topic..

[Rottenfruit]

Without any context it'd be easy for people, especially young people, to develop perceptions and expectations from what they see in porn.

Not in my expernice, even when puberty hit and i started watching porn i knew that this was acted,fake,not realistic,

And having sex with a drunk person when you are high as a kite yourself? Who's the rapist in that scenario?

[#FF0000]

Not in my expernice, even when puberty hit and i started watching porn i knew that this was acted,fake,not realistic,

This is funny because my experience w/ other people asking me questions (because they trust me and value my advice for some dumb reason lol) suggests that lack of comprehensive sex ed to provide context for porn does lead to lots of misconceptions.

Is that really so much of a stretch?

I mean, people can be consciously aware "yeah this is fake, unrealistic", but without context, without decent sex education, without knowing better, what, exactly is one supposed to "know" is fake and unrealistic? How is one supposed to know what is realistic?

[Rottenfruit]

This is funny because my experience w/ other people asking me questions (because they trust me and value my advice for some dumb reason lol) suggests that lack of comprehensive sex ed to provide context for porn does lead to lots of misconceptions.

Is that really so much of a stretch?

Plus, I mean, people can be consciously aware "yeah this is fake, unrealistic", but without context, without decent sex education, without knowing better, what, exactly is one supposed to "know" is fake and unrealistic? How is one supposed to know what is realistic?

We have good sex education In Iceland maby thats why

Well i can go into detail about the things that are fake and i was aware almost immedaitly and sorry i will go a little graphic here

Sex does normaly not end in a "cumshot" in the face
Sex does not last for 30-40 minutues
Women dont moan "oh yeah fuck me baby,oohh ahh and all and those stupid sounds that are so fake and badly acted"
The avarge guy does not have a 10 inch slong

[#FF0000]

We have good sex education In Iceland maby thats why

oh, yeah.

they tell us just to not have sex in america

that is seriously a thing in schools.


Sex does normaly not end in a "cumshot" in the face
Sex does not last for 30-40 minutues
Women dont moan "oh yeah fuck me baby,oohh ahh and all and those stupid sounds that are so fake and badly acted"
The avarge guy does not have a 10 inch slongYup. Yup. Yup. I'd say a lot of these are common misconceptions that a good number of people have here in the US. At least this generation.

[bcbm]

And having sex with a drunk person when you are high as a kite yourself? Who's the rapist in that scenario?

i dont think anyone said 'all intoxicated sex is rape' try to focus

[Rottenfruit]

oh, yeah.

they tell us just to not have sex in america

that is seriously a thing in schools.

Thats a bad idea because that will lead adoclents to learn about sex somewhere else and they get midsconcpteions from porn if thats the only resource they can have access to.

[o well this is ok I guess]

oh, yeah.

they tell us just to not have sex in america

that is seriously a thing in schools. Is America really as bad as everyone says it is

[Rottenfruit]

i dont think anyone said 'all intoxicated sex is rape' try to focus

Sorry again, english is not my native language so sometimes i misinterepet what people are writting espicaily if im reading it in a hurry.

[Welshy]

Don't worry, you all just got trolled by Aziz. Heading back onto topic..

Who was he a sock of?

[RadioRaheem84]

I don't know if this was said earlier and I did not have time to read through the whole thread, but I think sex in mainstream movies is just as bad if not way more fantastical than anything in porn. One stresses the 'love' 'passion' and the other the pure lust, thrust.

:lol:

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Is America really as bad as everyone says it is
Yes and no

I grew up in The South (tm), still reside there, and never encountered abstinence-only sex education, but only "drugs are bad and wear condoms! stds!" (in my schools it was a combo "Health" class). But then, middle and high school (when sex ed is taught here, age 11 or so to 18) I spent in Atlanta, whose southernhood is hotly contested. I also don't know if that was official curriculum (in the US curriculum specifics are decided on a local level), or if I just had renegade teachers.

However, I can travel an hour (or so) north of the city (up into the mountains) and see flags flying with the encircled-cross symbol depending on the area. At one stage, the KKK was re-formed on Stone Mountain, just outside the city. So there's that.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

We have good sex education In Iceland maby thats why

Well i can go into detail about the things that are fake and i was aware almost immedaitly and sorry i will go a little graphic here

Sex does normaly not end in a "cumshot" in the face
Sex does not last for 30-40 minutues
Women dont moan "oh yeah fuck me baby,oohh ahh and all and those stupid sounds that are so fake and badly acted"
The avarge guy does not have a 10 inch slong

But how did you know these were fake without any context to put them in. I mean I'm sure even with good sex education they don't talk about sex positions or the money shot. Do they talk about how long you're supposed to last?

And I don't know about you but my parents were loud as fuck and both moaned stuff all the time. "fuck yeah" "Jesus Christ" " Fuck me" etc, etc.

*shudders*

[Rottenfruit]

But how did you know these were fake without any context to put them in. I mean I'm sure even with good sex education they don't talk about sex positions or the money shot. Do they talk about how long you're supposed to last?

And I don't know about you but my parents were loud as fuck and both moaned stuff all the time. "fuck yeah" "Jesus Christ" " Fuck me" etc, etc.

*shudders*
Actuly yes we do talk about that in Iceland. Not how long you last, it's talked about that is unrealisticy long in porn

[X5N]

I learned about sex from porn.

But since I'm asexual...that point is pretty much moot.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Actuly yes we do talk about that in Iceland. Not how long you last, it's talked about that is unrealisticy long in porn

You guys talked about porn?

[Igor]

You guys talked about porn?

We did in sex ed too, in Finland. Didn't really strike me as anything odd, porn should be something to be talked about in sex ed because for most teenagers it's pretty much the most common and first contact with sex.

[mew]

Porn teaches us lies about women, and the truth about men. :P

[cynicles]

Porn teaches us lies about women, and the truth about men. :P
All gay men have sixpacks, 10 inch dicks and a perpetual hardon and straight men are willing to experiment with enough coaxing?

[Welshy]

All gay men have sixpacks, 10 inch dicks and a perpetual hardon and straight men are willing to experiment with enough coaxing?

You have no idea how much I wish this was true.

[cynicles]

You have no idea how much I wish this was true.

What's funny is that there is actual statistical evidence that straight are more likely to experiential their female counterparts. I just find the study.

[Welshy]

What's funny is that there is actual statistical evidence that straight are more likely to experiential their female counterparts. I just find the study.

If that is true is time for me to start getting friendly with soccer players:tt1:

[Jazzratt]

You don't go seeking out porn if you don't know what sex is, and if you're young enough to not know what sex is you'll probably be grossed out by all that icky porn stuff should you stumble upon it. Quite frankly, most of these "victims of porn-watching" seem to be victims of a horrible sex-ed situation (if victims at all) and/or thick in the head.
Bollocks. "Learning about sex" doesn't end when you know the mechanics of the act. There are plenty of people who 1) know what sex is, 2) have quite adequate sex education and 3) aren't thick as pigshit that still get poisoned by the tropes of porn. After watching most mainstream porn you'd be forgiven* for thinking that women got orgasmic joy from having sperm touch their face, for example, or that anal sex was (to most women) just as satisfying as vaginal penetration. Porn doesn't tell you what sex is but it does give unrealistic expectations of what sex should be.

* The examples I put are heteronormative and assume a male viewer. There are other harmful views porn teaches people but I'm either unfamiliar with them (having not encountered porn directed at women [straight or lesbian]) or they aren't the major focus of the discussion [e.g gay porn's worrying obession with "converting" [implicitly raping] straight twinks].

[Sea]

Bollocks. "Learning about sex" doesn't end when you know the mechanics of the act. There are plenty of people who 1) know what sex is, 2) have quite adequate sex education and 3) aren't thick as pigshit that still get poisoned by the tropes of porn. After watching most mainstream porn you'd be forgiven* for thinking that women got orgasmic joy from having sperm touch their face, for example, or that anal sex was (to most women) just as satisfying as vaginal penetration. Porn doesn't tell you what sex is but it does give unrealistic expectations of what sex should be.

* The examples I put are heteronormative and assume a male viewer. There are other harmful views porn teaches people but I'm either unfamiliar with them (having not encountered porn directed at women [straight or lesbian]) or they aren't the major focus of the discussion [e.g gay porn's worrying obession with "converting" [implicitly raping] straight twinks].
I'll defend myself by saying that when I mentioned shoddy sex-ed, sex-ed that ends at the mechanics of the act is exactly what I had in mind. There's also the difference in means of exploiting a niche market (read: throwing a bunch of goofy porn on the web to see what gets the most views and in turn ad money) and a bunch of naked mole rats in a room decorated with playboy bunny stickers, or some other equally despicable conglomeration of porn-peddlers conspiring on what ought to be hot and what ought to not, the article in the OP giving the impression of the latter. Lest they be suggesting that pornography in itself is the problem, of course My response was rather harsh and not thought out very well, though. Deleted the post.

[Luís Henrique]

The Absurd Myths Porn Teaches Us About Sex (http://www.alternet.org/story/154699/the_absurd_myths_porn_teaches_us_about_sex?page=0% 2C0)

Restarting the never-ending porn debate bound to happen on a forum full of male teens with this pretty good piece.

This would make a far better discussion if the focus was on public sexual education instead of porn. I mean, what kind of guy doesn't know women have pubic hair, and whose fault is it? I say, the kind of guy who has had no, or only lousy, biology classes, and the fault is of the educational system.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

(although it seems to me that one must have seriously narrow tastes in porn in order to never encounter any depictions of a woman with pubic hair).

Not only narrow tastes, but also a narrow experience of pornnet navigation. I mean, no one needs to be homosexual to learn from pornography that there are people who bang with same-sex people... how is anyone even going to avoid hairy-porn without such basic knowledge?

Luís Henrique

[StalinInAScarf]

My Sexual Education was about Abstinence. We got to see a wonderful slide show highlighting the wonderful effects of every cockrot imaginable. Ball sacks swollen up to the size of bowling balls, pus sacs looking like a damn smallpox epidemic.


Scared me gay by the end of it.

[fug]

My "sexual education" was taking advice from older guys at the bar on the corner and trying it out in the bushes :)
Good times...