THE INTENTIONS OF LAO TZU.

[Monty Cantsin]

Many people like eastern philosophers because they focus on the person and their enlightenment. But in reading Lao Tzu’s Tao Ching I have come across a passage which makes me wonder who the book was written for and its intentions. The passage is as follows.

“Not to honour men of worth will keep the people from contention; not to value goods which are hard to come by will keep them from theft; not to display what is desirable will keep them from being unsettled of mind.

Therefore in governing the people, the sage empties their minds but fills their bellies, weakens their wills but strengthens their bones. He always keeps them innocent of knowledge and free from desire, and ensures that the clever never dare to act.
Do that which consists in taking no action, and order will prevail.”

Now this page is very much about the control of the masses how to keep them happy, by keeping them innocent of truth. But the question is did Lao Tzu write this for the people to know what happens to them or the rulers to teach them how to fool the masses, or “the sage” refers to religious person fooling the masses?


Notes
The quote came from Tao Te Ching(page 59) by Lao Tzu, translated by d.c. lau

[honest intellectual]

I'm pretty sure it was meant for "the rulers to teach them how to fool the masses". Lao Tze thought that the ruler of a country was part of the natural order and had a right to rule, the 'mandate of heaven'. The end of verse 3 says:
If people lack knowledge and desire
Then they cannot act;
If no action is taken
Harmony reamins."

How's that for the leader fooling the masses?

(Other parts of Tao Te Ching also seem to be addressed to rulers, see verses 57, 72, 74)

[Monty Cantsin]

I’m pretty sure it was meant for the rulers because of this line "Do that which consists in taking no action, and order will prevail" but also I think it identifies the sage as one of the key people putting in place the covers or the fooling of the masses.

ill have a look at the other sections of the book you named.

[revolutionindia]

deleted

[Monty Cantsin]

revolutionindia I would have to say there are true lovers of humanity but I have to say one of the things I hate most in this world is organised religion, when you think about all the thing the catholic church has done the crusades, the Spanish inquisition, hiding ss troops after world war two. It just amazes me that this continues. So as I don’t hate religion as such I have to be critical and think about the intentions of the writer and the priesthood (cults), sage that imposes them.

[peaccenicked]

Taken literally. It means'dont rock the boat and order will prevail.

however,in my view there is a time to rock the boat,even a time to tip it over, its all about timing.
bedtime is a great time to do nothing.

[Monty Cantsin]

Peaccenicked this statement ("Do that which consists in taking no action, and order will prevail") alone means don’t rock the boat but put into contexts with the rest of the poem and it paints a very different picture which we have been covering.

[IHP]

I have the Tao Te Ching in my signature. In my opinion, it is one of the most fantastic pieces of literature that I've ever read.

The problem with us, as Westerners, is that we don't really understand the Eastern way of thinking. Therefore attempting to discern each and every statement to it's truest intention is impossible.

[Monty Cantsin]

IHP what makes you think were all westerners, it doesnt matter anyways every one thinks differently it really depends on how your brought up.

[honest intellectual]

IHP, what is your opinion on the part euripidies quoted? ("Do that which consists in taking no action, and order will prevail")
The reason I ask is that I don't see how you can reconcile the philosophy of inaction with socialism. It is a counter-revolutionary, even apolitical, stance.

[IHP]

I ask you, how many of you have read the Tao Te Ching? It has some amazing messages inside. I especially like the concept of "nothing," of which I have quoted a small passage.

Of course, not all that which is inside it is probing with true revolutionary reasoning.

HI, I'm not pro-revolution, nor am I at all Communist. What's wrong with something being apolitical if it has postive life message?

[honest intellectual]

OK, I was just wondering. I presumed you were political because you're on this forum. Nothing at all wrong with being apolitical.

[IHP]

Well, I'm a left-winger, of that's all you mean. I just don't subscribe to a lot of the left-wing ideology-type.

[iloveatomickitten]

I've read the book but what is the goal of taosim, that is tao. Certainly that would serve as enough to explain the passage you quoted.

I seriously doubt that its intended purpose is either of those which you proposed, I think that it is less a practical intruction rather a example used to give the previous teachings comprehendable form in which to relate to the individual.

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2003, 03:56 AM
What's wrong with something being apolitical if it has postive life message?
but its not being apolitical in its very political statement, whats the postive life message sit down and take whats comeing to you and dont complain?