Pussy Riot Trial

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

When the arrests were first reported, as in, I heard them about it on NPR a week after the arrests, I thought it was almost not worth reporting. They pulled a stunt after a warning and got arrested, I mean, that happens every day all over the world.

But the story has only grown and they still haven't gone to trial, though I believe it's starting soon. I really have to wonder what the hell this is going on for, does the Russian government really believe that prosecuting these young women will silence the opposition? Are they really that fucking stupid? What the fuck do they think it looks like when girls who aren't half the size of the guards are held in a cage during a trial and facing 7 years for singing in a Church? Does the Russian government really feel so weak that it has come to this?

You can reference the chicago 8 or any other group rounded up by the authority in a time of crisis, but these girls are guilty of nothing more than singing.

[Blake's Baby]

Can't go around bringing the nation into direpute or mocking the president or the church. What if people realised the Emperor has no clothes? Where would it end?

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Ah, I just posted a thread about this, didn't see this one already existed, sorry :/

[Comrade #138672]

Apparently you're not allowed to question authority. That's an insult.

[l'Enfermé]

It's really odd that they're getting persecuted, because for all intents and purposes they're absolutely irrelevant. Basically I'd say they're not being persecuted because the government "feels weak"(it doesn't - the regime has rarely been so powerful, don't believe these silly "oppositionists", it's only threats are economical, not stupid women that take a shit on the church), but because their stunt has pissed of a really significant part of the general population, and the government has to prosecute them in order to appease those people.

[Sasha]

It's really odd that they're getting persecuted, because for all intents and purposes they're absolutely irrelevant. Basically I'd say they're not being persecuted because the government "feels weak"(it doesn't - the regime has rarely been so powerful, don't believe these silly "oppositionists", it's only threats are economical, not stupid women that take a shit on the church), but because their stunt has pissed of a really significant part of the general population, and the government has to prosecute them in order to appease those people.

Actually, its completely the oposite, putin singled them out, try to made them the face of the oposition because they where pretty unpopulair with the averige russian. Its the same tactic he pulled when the people got pissed of by the cronyism and oliarchs, he used it to his advantage to silence chodorovski while he left loyal to him oliarchs alone.
In this case it backfired though, he went to far, came down to hard on them, in the eyes of many russians he Retro-actively proved pusyriot right in him labeling a anti-democratic despot.

[l'Enfermé]

Actually, its completely the oposite, putin singled them out, try to made them the face of the oposition because they where pretty unpopulair with the averige russian. Its the same tactic he pulled when the people got pissed of by the cronyism and oliarchs, he used it to his advantage to silence chodorovski while he left loyal to him oliarchs alone.
In this case it backfired though, he went to far, came down to hard on them, in the eyes of many russians he Retro-actively proved pusyriot right in him labeling a anti-democratic despot.
Western media tries to spin it like that yeah, I've read something to that effect on the guardian or wherever, but not really, Putin isn't behind this, it's the orthodox clergy, the effort to persecute these women is being spearheaded by Kiril I(the Russian Orthodox equivalent of the Catholic Pope, and this one in particular is a pretty nasty old fuck even for a clergyman). Those guys think Pussy Riot is worse than Stalin. Putin really couldn't give less of a shit about the "opposition", the opposition to Putin is a pretty insignificant group, you have to remember, the last election Putin got almost 4 times as many votes as his strongest opponent, Zyuganov, and Zyuganov and his "Communist" Party are just miserable prostitutes. There's literally no threat whatsoever to Putin's power in Russia.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Putin seems to have developed an alliance with the ultra reactionary Russian Orthodox Church.There is seething opposition to Putin but to what extent we don't know.Zyuganov's party is a manufactured toothless opposition. The protest movements, although still dominated by middle class and nationalist elements, does seem to have shaken up the regime somewhat. There is fear above all, of the Russian working class waking up-this has Putin terrified.He's taking a page from Stalin, reviving the most reactionary social conservatism.

Putin was elected by a large majority, but the elections are believed to have been fraudelent and don't have legitimacy.


Many in Russia view the actions and hyperbole the church is engaging in as a thinly veiled effort to deflect attention from its own corruption, power and immense wealth.

Indeed, when I was in Moscow in early April, a story broke that the Orthodox Church had photoshopped Patriarch Kirill I’s Breguet watch worth at least $30,000 out of a photo on its website—but neglected to remove the reflection that was still visible on the table where the patriarch was seated. The patriarch also won a $600,000 lawsuit for dust damage to an apartment he owns in an expensive building, and bloggers allege that he has a “large country house, a private yacht and a penchant for ski vacations in Switzerland.”

Many Russians feel that this kind of bad publicity was the real motivating factor behind the church’s organizing a massive demonstration in front of the cathedral last week. Crowd estimates range between 30,000 and 65,000 people—large by any measure—as the church called on supporters to help it “defend itself” against a “campaign of blasphemy,” including the Pussy Riot performance, the Times reports. The church bused in people “from over a dozen dioceses,” including “the Night Wolves, a group of nationalist motorcyclists.” It was a real show of strength—as big or bigger than any of Moscow’s pro-democracy demonstrations—and priests who opposed the gathering were denounced by Patriarch Kirill I as “traitors in cassocks.”

Boris Kagarlitsky, director of the Institute of Social Movements and Globalization and a keen observer of Russian society and politics, writes: “The Pussy Riot affair has turned into a PR disaster for the Russian Orthodox Church, adding to the scandals with the Patriarch. The women are under arrest and much of the religious Christian community is disgusted with the position of the hierarchy which is behind the persecution. The mass rally organized to pray for the church [for being] ‘attacked’ and even ‘persecuted’ by Pussy Riot made things even worse. Some priests publicly protested against the policies of the Patriarch—for the first time in many years. Now we have a growing movement to defend secularism, which wasn’t there even a month ago.”

http://www.thenation.com/blog/167647/free-pussy-riot#

[l'Enfermé]

Putin seems to have developed an alliance with the ultra reactionary Russian Orthodox Church.
The Kremlin has been in an alliance with the Church since Stalin decided that they're kinda useful during WWII. But it should be noted that the current Patriarch hasn't always supported the Kremlin, during the elections he was actually opposed by the Kremlin and his main rival was supported by them, but Kirill won nevertheless.

There is seething opposition to Putin but to what extent we don't know.
A few western-funded liberals here and there but nothing major.


The protest movements, although still dominated by middle class and nationalist elements, does seem to have shaken up the regime somewhat.
No, it hasn't.


Putin was elected by a large majority, but the elections are believed to have been fraudelent and don't have legitimacy.
I don't think that there were better monitored elections in human history. What was fraudulent was the election campaign, sure. But the 2012 presidential elections were no less legitimate than the presidential elections in France this year. Sure, CNN and BBC wanted you to believe otherwise, but you shouldn't buy that bullshit.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Thread edited so as to remove the word "pussy."

[Luís Henrique]

Thread edited so as to remove the word "pussy."

Please stop the bowdlerising, it is getting ridiculous. The name of their organisation is "Pussy Riot", like it or not.

What next, a thread about "Niggaz With Attitude" having its title changed to "With Attitude" because of reasons?

Luís Henrique

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Ah,I didn't know that was the name of their band.The OP posted no link to the story and mentioned nothing of a musical group (references but nothing concrete).

[l'Enfermé]

"Pussy Riot" actually isn't even a translation, that's their name in Russian too. It's a pun, I think, but when Russian media translate it into Russia, they translate it into "Kitty Riot" and "Kitten's Riot", never "Vagina Riot"/"Vagina's Riot".

[Leftsolidarity]

Ah,I didn't know that was the name of their band.The OP posted no link to the story and mentioned nothing of a musical group (references but nothing concrete).

Yeah, the band's name is actually "Pussy Riot"

[Crux]

Thread edited so as to remove the word "pussy."
And I put it back. Here's a relevant link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/29/pussy-riot-protest-vladimir-putin-russia

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/564646_10151031839903463_1561146925_n.jpg

here's the video of their "crime", with english subs:
ALS92big4TY

[rednordman]

And I put it back. Here's a relevant link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/29/pussy-riot-protest-vladimir-putin-russia

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/564646_10151031839903463_1561146925_n.jpg

here's the video of their "crime", with english subs:
ALS92big4TYProblem is that those girls don't look revolutionary at all doing what they did, they just made themselves look silly. this does also make the Russian state look silly too i suppose. So in that sense, i feel sorry for them and hope they get released.

[Igor]

Problem is that those girls don't look revolutionary at all doing what they did, they just made themselves look silly.

how

[Leftsolidarity]

Problem is that those girls don't look revolutionary at all doing what they did, they just made themselves look silly. this does also make the Russian state look silly too i suppose. So in that sense, i feel sorry for them and hope they get released.

I'm pretty sure they were just trying to make an amusing music video

[l'Enfermé]

No, not really. They think they were a powerful force undermining the Putin regime with the capability to bring it down. A delusional group.

[Sasha]

No, not really. They think they were a powerful force undermining the Putin regime with the capability to bring it down. A delusional group.

Yeah, damn those stupid delusional etc etc... its not like there strong precedence of avant-garde artist being a powerful part of the revolutionary movement in Russia or anything...

Anyways, they are part of a collective that have been getting under the skin of the authorities for ages, previous claim to fame was painting a huge middle finger salute on the bridge facing the KGB headquarters... giving every KGB top officer the finger anytime a ship had to pass, another absolutly not "undermining" action im sure that in no way paved the way even a tiny bit for the mass protests the regime is facing now years later...

[Crux]

No, not really. They think they were a powerful force undermining the Putin regime with the capability to bring it down. A delusional group.
Borz, I think there's a difference between Pussy Riot wanting to bring down the Putin regime and them believing they alone can do it. I am also quite convinced that they have been targeted because they oppose the regime and were seen as an "easy" target.


Problem is that those girls don't look revolutionary at all doing what they did, they just made themselves look silly. this does also make the Russian state look silly too i suppose. So in that sense, i feel sorry for them and hope they get released.
I think what they did is awesome, subversive and punk as fuck.

[l'Enfermé]

There hasn't been no notable revolutionary movement in Russia since Stalin butchered practically all the Bolsheviks, psycho, so no, there's no strong precedent of that. Revolutionary movement in Russia? A few sects here and there, sure. But there's no revolutionary movement in Russia, unless you want to dilute the meaning of that phrase, and in that case, you might as well brand the various ML/Hoxhaist, Trotskyist, Maoist, and other sects in Western Europe made up of a couple hundred cultists "revolutionary movements"(though I guess the KKE is an exception, they are very well integrated with a significant portion of the Greek working class, but Greece makes up only 1/50th of EU's population).

Thought maybe, it's possible that avant-garde punk rock third-wave feminist rock bands are an excellent replacement for the Leninist vanguard party. The bourgeoisie better watch it's ass carefully, lest they get punk-rocked out of existence.

[Crux]

There hasn't been no notable revolutionary movement in Russia since Stalin butchered practically all the Bolsheviks, psycho, so no, there's no strong precedent of that. Revolutionary movement in Russia? A few sects here and there, sure. But there's no revolutionary movement in Russia, unless you want to dilute the meaning of that phrase, and in that case, you might as well brand the various ML/Hoxhaist, Trotskyist, Maoist, and other sects in Western Europe made up of a couple hundred cultists "revolutionary movements"(though I guess the KKE is an exception, they are very well integrated with a significant portion of the Greek working class, but Greece makes up only 1/50th of EU's population).

Thought maybe, it's possible that avant-garde punk rock third-wave feminist rock bands are an excellent replacement for the Leninist vanguard party. The bourgeoisie better watch it's ass carefully, lest they get punk-rocked out of existence.
:rolleyes: Straw man much?

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm pretty sure they were just trying to make an amusing music videoThey actually stage many of these performances with very specific targets, including the Kremlin where they sang a song about how refreshing Egyptian air is and how it should come to the Red Square. Also there are easier ways to make amusing videos where you don't have to maintain your anonymity and risk arrest and imprisonment.

Yeah is this a protest tactic or way forward? No, not really, it's protest-art which can play a supplementary role in rallying people or helping with propaganda. Which brings me to my second point on this: they should be seen in the context of rising discontent across the world in response to neo-liberalism, crisis, and austerity. Specifically in Russia, a country that official says that homosexuality can exist in Russia after another 100 years or so, this band is singing about LGBT themes and women's rights and so on.

And while the regime tried to make a point with them, it has backfired and now an unknown band has brought international attention and solidarity, so as an uninteded (either by the band or the regime) consequence the object lesson has become a rallying point for many people which will help the reformers and radicals in Russia.

[Crux]

And on that point. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/01/pussy-riot-reminder-revolution-culture?fb=native&CMP=FBCNETTXT9038)

[l'Enfermé]

I can't tell if you guys are joking or you're so clueless about what's going on in Russia:confused:...

The current regime has gotten away with murdering about 250,000 people in Chechnya during the last 18 years. Without a scratch. And during that time, it's power was less consolidated. There's no threat to Putin's regime, unless the West does more to undermine it. On the grand scale of things, Pussy Riot is completely irrelevant.

[Crux]

I can't tell if you guys are joking or you're so clueless about what's going on in Russia:confused:...

The current regime has gotten away with murdering about 250,000 people in Chechnya during the last 18 years. Without a scratch. And during that time, it's power was less consolidated. There's no threat to Putin's regime, unless the West does more to undermine it. On the grand scale of things, Pussy Riot is completely irrelevant.
Uh a massive protest movement running since the election and gradually breaking away from the initial limitations placed on it by a liberal leadership? Of course there's ebbs and floods, as in any protest movement.

[l'Enfermé]

Uh a massive protest movement running since the election and gradually breaking away from the initial limitations placed on it by a liberal leadership? Of course there's ebbs and floods, as in any protest movement.
Umm, what the fuck were they protesting? Putin's democratic victory? The liberals lost pathetically in the elections, and went to the streets because they want attention. Why are you so fond of this? Do you think these fucks are any better than Putin? Putin isn't going anywhere until 2018, and if he runs in 2018, he'll probably win too. Unless he dies before that. Putin got 34 million more votes than his strongest opponent, he got almost 4 times more than the guy. The contest was determined then. Nobody gave a shit about some stupid fucking western-aligned liberal protesting on the streets, except for CNN who pretend it was a big a deal. It wasn't.

[Crux]

And look who doesn't know shit. You don't need to be a fan of the second in line to see that Putin committed fraud. And your asessment of the protest movement again shows that you don't know shit. Get off your high horse, comrade Borz.

[l'Enfermé]

The Presidential elections went pretty much how the opinion bolls predicted they would. There's no reason to believe that whatever irregularities thereOpinion in Russia is overwhelming pro-Putin(or more specifically, public opinion prefers Putin overwhelmingly over his opponents). I'm from Russia and I spend most of my time online on the Russian-language section of the internet. I know this shit better than anyone else on RevLeft. Your information, on the other hand, comes from the likes of the Guardian, CNN and the Huffington Post. Your precious protest movement is bullocks, comrade. Undemocratic bullocks that's not worth mentioning(even pathetic liberals don't seem to like their own democracy anymore in our day and age).

[Crux]

The Presidential elections went pretty much how the opinion bolls predicted they would. There's no reason to believe that whatever irregularities thereOpinion in Russia is overwhelming pro-Putin(or more specifically, public opinion prefers Putin overwhelmingly over his opponents). I'm from Russia and I spend most of my time online on the Russian-language section of the internet. I know this shit better than anyone else on RevLeft. Your information, on the other hand, comes from the likes of the Guardian, CNN and the Huffington Post. Your precious protest movement is bullocks, comrade. Undemocratic bullocks that's not worth mentioning(even pathetic liberals don't seem to like their own democracy anymore in our day and age).
My sources are russian, thank you. And your opinions, comrade, makes it no wonder why you are restricted.

[l'Enfermé]

I should be restricted because I'm not enthusiastic about hopeless protests of NATO-aligned liberals against Putin's autocracy in Russia? Really? I think you should be restricted for being a reformist and in spirit, a social-democrat also, comrade.

[Crux]

“Pussy riot” – made into scapegoats by revengeful Putin (http://www.socialistworld.net/doc/5883)

07/08/2012
Public support growing for punk group!
Rob Jones Moscow
http://www.socialistworld.net/img/20120806Grafik1925134850541426156.jpg
It would have been difficult to predict a year ago that a group of “third generation feminist punk rockers” calling themselves “Pussy riot” and dressed in brightly colored balaclavas and wooly stockings would not only become a symbol of the rapidly growing opposition to Putin but also the subject of his vindictive wrath. Three members of the group were arrested in February following a performance of their “punk-prayer” on the altar of Moscow’s main orthodox cathedral. They have been charged with “hooliganism” and held in jail for nearly six months awaiting trial, even though two of them are mothers with young children. They have seen neither their partners, family or friends in this time.



“Pussy riot” is more of a movement than a band. It has numerous members going under names such as “Blondie”, “Terminator”, “Garage”, “Seraphim”, “the Cat”, “Schumacher” which they interchange at will to maintain anonymity. They have dozens who support their various actions, which have ranged from satire to provocation. In the early days, members took part in actions organized by the “Voina” group such as the painting of a male organ onto one of St Petersburg’s drawbridges. When the bridge was lifted at night, those working in the offices of the FSB political police opposite found themselves staring at this pictorial comment of what many people think of their activities. But more and more, as the opposition to Putin’s regime has grown into mass public protests, the group’s actions have become more explicitly political. The words of their “Punk prayer” are explicitly anti-Putin and anti-Church hierarchy.

http://www.socialistworld.net/img/article/2012-08-06Grafik2489012838433973411.jpg Performing the “Punk prayer” in Cathedral


The performance of the “Punk prayer” in the “Cathedral of Christ the Savior” in Moscow enraged the ruling elite. Practically unanimously they have demanded firm action be taken against these women. The Cathedral itself symbolizes all that is rotten about the new capitalist Russia – built (rather rebuilt on the site of the former cathedral commemorating Russia’s victory against Napoleon) in the mid-nineties, it has been surrounded by corruption scandals. During the depths of the economic depression which followed the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Yeltsin regime wasted billions of rubles building this church. Its domes were plated with 50 kilogrammes of gold, donated by one of the new banker oligarchs with a criminal reputation. Today, only 7% of the cathedral is used for religious services, the rest is home to various commercial activities.



But this is of little concern to the Russian orthodox Church, one of the most reactionary churches in the world. Instead one after another of the ROC’s spokesmen have bent over backwards to literally demonise “Pussy riot”. According to the Church’s lawyer, “Pussy riot” represents some form of “higher power, trying to destroy the Russian Orthodox Church. These are the same forces behind the 11th September terrorist actions in the USA – Satan!”



Vsevolod Chaplin is the official spokesman of the Church. He blames, in the first place a “satanistic group”, and in second place “a world government” (in Russian history this is a synonym for a Jewish conspiracy). These groups, he explained are connected at the highest level by Satan. He believes that the punk-rockers are sinners who should be severely punished. When asked to justify this, he said he had been told “by God!”.
Chaplin is known for his reactionary and violent beliefs. Earlier this year he called for the works of Lenin and Trotsky to be checked for “extremism” and removed from circulation. He went on to say that he believed it was the moral duty of any Christian to kill as many Bolsheviks as possible. It is not surprising that the Church is often seen side by side with fascists in protests against abortion and against rights for women and the LGBT community.




http://www.socialistworld.net/img/article/2012-08-06Grafik2638258638673652947.jpg



Not one of the official parliamentary parties has spoken out against this vicious campaign against “Pussy Riot”. At the start of the latest trial, Genaddy Zyuganov, leader of Russia’s so called communist party issued a press statement which: “firmly rejected this latest anti orthodox provocation”. In a radio interview he went further. He complained about the growing influence of the West and NATO and warned of the “tragic consequences of the Arab Spring for Christians”. He explained that the Communist Party “is to a large extent the representative of the Orthodox church in politics. It has always defended and will always defend the interests of believers. … We are prepared to use all our influence for the defense of the good name and authority of preachers who have to suffer ridicule, slander and defamation”.



Now that the trial of the three members of Pussy riot has been resumed, it is clear that they are not getting a fair trial. The judge keeps making comments against them, the prosecution has submitted another 200 pages of evidence without given their lawyers time to read it. Witnesses wanting to speak in support of the group are being rejected by the judge.
Somewhat disturbingly given the Stalinist use of psychiatric hospitals to punish dissidents, the judge has called for evidence from a psychiatric expert. He gave evidence that all three suffered from personality disorders, which, in one case he described as “having an active social position and desire for self-realisation” and for one of the others “a tendency to opposition activity”! Apparently hearing “voices from God” and calling for “as many Bolsheviks as possible to be killed” is not seen as having a personality disorder!



The case against “Pussy Riot” however is not an isolated case. It comes against a wave of other arrests associated with the growing protest movement. The Prosecutor’s office is moving against a number of well-known leaders such as the right wing blogger Aleksei Navalniy. The latest charges relate to the time when he was acting as advisor to the Kirov regional governor, during which he recommended a deal to sell timber from the region, which led to significant losses, if not, as the Prosecutor alleges, the misuse of large sums of money. This charge is particularly ironic as Navalny has set up a campaign against corruption called “PilRus” based on the commonly used word for corruption “to saw off money”. On these charges he faces up to ten years in prison.
But aside from the well-known cases, another 16 activists have been arrested and are awaiting trial on charges that could leave many of them in prison for several years.



But the regime is finding itself backed into a corner over these arrests. The arrest of “Pussy riot” has led to a huge international protest. Peter Gabriel, Sting, Steven Fry, Danny de Vito, Terry Gilliam and Pete Townsend are amongst those sending public protests. International groups playing concerts in Russia are more and more showing solidarity with Pussy Riot by wearing tea-shirts or giving other members of the band time to play. These include Franz Ferdinand, Beastie boys, Patti Smith, Faith No More and Red Hot Chili Peppers. Whilst many Russian artists continue to support the regime, knowing that if they speak in opposition they will lose all their air-time, it is significant that over a 100 leading artists, including many, who until recently were pro-Putin, have spoken out.



But far more worrying for the regime is that the whole population is beginning to rapidly change its approach. In the weeks after the action, the vast majority of Russian society, hearing the outright condemnation from all official quarters – even the heads of all Russian faiths, including the “Chief atheist” attacking “Pussy Riot” supported the government’s actions against the group. The latest opinion poll, however show that a majority of Muscovites already think that the regime has gone too far. This is in line with other polls that show that up to 20% of Russians (that’s about 30 million people) are prepared to actively protest against the government.



The CWI in Russia calls for the immediate release of Pussy Riot and all those arrested around the recent opposition protests and for all charges to be dropped. There should be the immediate separation of the Russian orthodox church from the state at all levels. Genuine freedom of speech including the right to criticize the state, the President and the church should be established at all levels. The Putin regime should go with the convening of a democratic constituent assembly made up of representatives from the workplaces, educational institutes and residential areas to decide what forms of government are best for Russia. There should be established a mass workers’ party with a socialist programme prepared to fight for political power and establish a new, socialist society free from capitalism and the bureaucrats and priests who serve its interests.

[l'Enfermé]

In the early days, members took part in actions organized by the “Voina” group such as the painting of a male organ onto one of St Petersburg’s drawbridges.
http://hyperallergic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/penis-bridge-MED.jpg


That one fantastically hilarious.

[hatzel]

So apparently their closing statement criticised the 'totalitarian' regime in Russia. I expect to see a torrent of RevLefters now denouncing them as no-good petit-bourgeois liberal scumbags.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I think those women are cool, and what they did was funny.

Don't know what (if any) significance they have beyond that, though.

[Crux]

So apparently their closing statement criticised the 'totalitarian' regime in Russia. I expect to see a torrent of RevLefters now denouncing them as no-good petit-bourgeois liberal scumbags.
Well they name-drop Kropotkin and Nechayev (I think) in one of their songs...

[Sasha]

http://hyperallergic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/penis-bridge-MED.jpg


That one fantastically hilarious.


its even better if you realise that bridge, when pulled up faces the KGB pallace directly, i remembered it as an midle finger but now i see the pictures i'm sure its that bridge.

[hatzel]

Well they name-drop Kropotkin and Nechayev (I think) in one of their songs...

This is actually the first I've heard of their politics (beyond all that Putin sucks stuff, of course). I mean yeah I must admit it's not like I've actually expended any effort whatsoever to delve into the exact details of their politics (and I definitely won't be listening to any of their songs because I really think punk is terrible), but the point still stands. For all I (or most other people, I guess) know they could be a load of real Lockeans or Miseans or Randians or whatever else. Not exactly the most likely option, but certainly possible. Serious issue worth raising here...or maybe not...either way, I don't think the general populace (even those who are making a point of getting all indignant about this on Facebook) really cares a great deal what their opinions are on...well, very nearly everything, let's be honest here...

[Crux]

This is actually the first I've heard of their politics (beyond all that Putin sucks stuff, of course). I mean yeah I must admit it's not like I've actually expended any effort whatsoever to delve into the exact details of their politics (and I definitely won't be listening to any of their songs because I really think punk is terrible), but the point still stands. For all I (or most other people, I guess) know they could be a load of real Lockeans or Miseans or Randians or whatever else. Not exactly the most likely option, but certainly possible. Serious issue worth raising here...or maybe not...either way, I don't think the general populace (even those who are making a point of getting all indignant about this on Facebook) really cares a great deal what their opinions are on...well, very nearly everything, let's be honest here...
Uh they're feminists and pro-LGBT rights, both of which are pretty controversial in Russia...sure they could have been lockeans or whatever, but that kind of libertarianism is pretty U.S based.

[Ostrinski]

Bjork released a statement of support on FB, shit just got real.

[milkmiku]

Bjork released a statement of support on FB, shit just got real.


The utter irony. This is just another distraction from bigger politics. I'm sure they have inspired people with their revolutionary and empowering display of idiocy. Putin must be shaking in his boots as the revolution, fueled by bad punk music, gains power. I am so pleased that people all over the world are giving these girls their support in their extremely magnificent task. Even as we sleep, proud revolutionary warriors, aged 18-26, gear up with their smartphones, mask, and banners with slogans, but not weapons, that would be bad Mmmk, To march upon the Putin regime.

Your days are numbered Putin. 혁명 온다

[Ostrinski]

The utter irony. This is just another distraction from bigger politics. I'm sure they have inspired people with their revolutionary and empowering display of idiocy. Putin must be shaking in his boots as the revolution, fueled by bad punk music, gains power. I am so pleased that people all over the world are giving these girls their support in their extremely magnificent task. Even as we sleep, proud revolutionary warriors, aged 18-26, gear up with their smartphones, mask, and banners with slogans, but not weapons, that would be bad Mmmk, To march upon the Putin regime.

Your days are numbered Putin. 혁명 온다fuck you

[l'Enfermé]

Why fuck him? He's absolutely right. He just probably thought you give a shit about what Bjork thinks, who I think is a singer.

[Ostrinski]

Why do people disdain support for people in prison who shouldn't be there? What if you were in prison and people were supporting you, and then other people (people with politics akin to yours) attacked this activism as petty? I mean, yeah it's petty to all of us, who have no relation to the artists, but it's not petty to the artists themselves, who are in an environment where they absolutely do not deserve to be.

We as communists have always spearheaded the defense of political prisoners (which incidentally, this gives us an opportunity and platform to talk about. It also gives us a platform to talk about Putin and his regime, and a chance to use this energy to build momentum for popular dissent.). Of course, if we don't politicize it, someone else will. But there's no point in abstaining from a global political conversation when the left has something to add, especially on the matter of the prison system. It's just nonsensical.

[Silvr]

Why do people disdain support for people in prison who shouldn't be there? What if you were in prison and people were supporting you, and then other people (people with politics akin to yours) attacked this activism as petty? I mean, yeah it's petty to all of us, who have no relation to the artists, but it's not petty to the artists themselves, who are in an environment where they absolutely do not deserve to be.

We as communists have always spearheaded the defense of political prisoners (which incidentally, this gives us an opportunity and platform to talk about. It also gives us a platform to talk about Putin and his regime, and a chance to use this energy to build momentum for popular dissent.). Of course, if we don't politicize it, someone else will. But there's no point in abstaining from a global political conversation when the left has something to add, especially on the matter of the prison system. It's just nonsensical.

I think you can be opposed to a state jailing dissidents of whatever sort, without overplaying the actual significance of the dissidents in question, which a lot of people on here are doing, to be honest.

I imagine that these girls are pretty cool people on a personal level, but I think that the stunts they are pulling off are pretty silly and pointless on a political level, and I definitely don't think they are anywhere near as significant as some people here are making them out to be.

[Jazzratt]

I think you can be opposed to a state jailing dissidents of whatever sort, without overplaying the actual significance of the dissidents in question, which a lot of people on here are doing, to be honest.

I imagine that these girls are pretty cool people on a personal level, but I think that the stunts they are pulling off are pretty silly and pointless on a political level, and I definitely don't think they are anywhere near as significant as some people here are making them out to be.
I don't think opposition to jailing dissidents should be conditional on how "pointless" or otherwise their actions are. If you are unprepared to stand by political prisoners undertaking "useless" actions it raises the question of what you consider useful. When support for those we may consider allies is limited to that extent their support for us is similarly limited. Hell, even if you don't agree with that pragmatic reasoning their is always the point that it is useless to hold ideals that are so easily ignored or compromised...

[Silvr]

I don't think opposition to jailing dissidents should be conditional on how "pointless" or otherwise their actions are. If you are unprepared to stand by political prisoners undertaking "useless" actions it raises the question of what you consider useful. When support for those we may consider allies is limited to that extent their support for us is similarly limited. Hell, even if you don't agree with that pragmatic reasoning their is always the point that it is useless to hold ideals that are so easily ignored or compromised...

I think you misunderstood my comment...

[Ostrinski]

I don't think opposition to jailing dissidents should be conditional on how "pointless" or otherwise their actions are. If you are unprepared to stand by political prisoners undertaking "useless" actions it raises the question of what you consider useful. When support for those we may consider allies is limited to that extent their support for us is similarly limited. Hell, even if you don't agree with that pragmatic reasoning their is always the point that it is useless to hold ideals that are so easily ignored or compromised...precisely.

The role they themselves play in the immediate state of affairs is irrelevant. The point is that their plight has been politicized on a global level. Do you think it should have been? Guess what? Our opinions on that are of little consequence. What's important here is that it has been politicized.

Furthermore, the left has always had something to say on the prison system with regard to capitalist society and the role that it plays. Why, when everyone is talking about it, would we abstain, regardless of the occasion?

[milkmiku]

I don't think opposition to jailing dissidents should be conditional on how "pointless" or otherwise their actions are. If you are unprepared to stand by political prisoners undertaking "useless" actions it raises the question of what you consider useful. When support for those we may consider allies is limited to that extent their support for us is similarly limited. Hell, even if you don't agree with that pragmatic reasoning their is always the point that it is useless to hold ideals that are so easily ignored or compromised...

The idea is, that the left and those who would call themselves leftist would outcry at this while so much other bad shit has/is happening in Russia. These people just went in a church and sung and dance, is it wrong for them to be locked up? Yes. Is this important at all? Fuck no. This is ingisinficent compared to the things that have happened and no big media mouth has peeped about. Where was borks voice when around elction time? Where was his voice when fash goons crack heada at an anti-racist rally? Fucking nowhere, but a band of girls gets arrested? Then he feels the need to cry havoc.


use this energy to build momentum for popular dissent.

politicized on a global level.
This will be forgotten in less than half a year.

Oh Allah, G_d above all, Lord Creator of the Earth and all above. I'm cracking up here. We'll see some energy when people start, hypothetically, taking shots at the bastards in power. This goddamn "hey look peacfull protest look at my cause we o strong" is a joke.

Truly Civil war must be had for victory.

[Ostrinski]

This will be forgotten in less than half a year.Well, yes, most things eventually are, but why this at all matters is alien to me. Yes they are irrelevant, that's not the point. The point is that the left is being handed a chance to talk about the prison system and its relationship to capitalist society, and elements within it are arrogantly pushing it away.


Allah, G_d above all, Lord Creator of the Earth and all above. I'm cracking up here. We'll see some energy when people start, hypothetically, taking shots at the bastards in power. This goddamn "hey look peacfull protest look at my cause we o strong" is a joke.

Truly Civil war must be had for victory.and its this attitude that is so poisonous. The complete and utter dismissal of all political dialogue, all political struggle, is what makes the left so irrelevant, so desolate, and such a piece of shit in its current state.

You can't have a revolution without support for revolutionary ideas, and you can't have support for revolutionary ideas without political dialogue.

[Silvr]

Well, yes, most things eventually are, but why this at all matters is alien to me. Yes they are irrelevant, that's not the point. The point is that the left is being handed a chance to talk about the prison system and its relationship to capitalist society

I mean, maybe this might be the case for leftists living in Russia, but from the looks of it, you live in Kentucky, and I gotta say, I highly, highly doubt that the pussy riot situation in Russia has given you a single opportunity to talk about the prison system and its relationship to capitalist society with any regular working class folks where you live...

[l'Enfermé]

So we should become cheerleaders for lackeys of Russian liberals?

[pluckedflowers]

So we should become cheerleaders for lackeys of Russian liberals?

No, of course not, we wouldn't want to give anyone the impression we give a shit about them or their freedom unless they are already socialists.

[mew]

like people doing bolshevik cosplay is any less petty

[l'Enfermé]

No, of course not, we wouldn't want to give anyone the impression we give a shit about them or their freedom unless they are already socialists.
It's good that we agree. After all, it's not our goal to choose sides in a dispute between 2 factions of the Russian bourgeoisie, the pro-Putin faction and the anti-Putin liberal one.

[l'Enfermé]

I don't think opposition to jailing dissidents should be conditional on how "pointless" or otherwise their actions are. If you are unprepared to stand by political prisoners undertaking "useless" actions it raises the question of what you consider useful. When support for those we may consider allies is limited to that extent their support for us is similarly limited. Hell, even if you don't agree with that pragmatic reasoning their is always the point that it is useless to hold ideals that are so easily ignored or compromised...
We may consider Russian liberals allies?

[pluckedflowers]

It's good that we agree. After all, it's not our goal to choose sides in a dispute between 2 factions of the Russian bourgeoisie, the pro-Putin faction and the anti-Putin liberal one.

As a matter of fact, I think we ought to have a pretty goddamned clear preference between the bourgeoisie that likes to call for freedom of expression and the bourgeoisie that likes to have journalists gunned down on the streets. But, hey, I guess I'm just a liberal like that.

[Igor]

We may consider Russian liberals allies?

On what exactly do you base the assumption that Pussy Riot members are liberal?

[l'Enfermé]

As a matter of fact, I think we ought to have a pretty goddamned clear preference between the bourgeoisie that likes to call for freedom of expression and the bourgeoisie that likes to have journalists gunned down on the streets. But, hey, I guess I'm just a liberal like that.
So you're one of those "radicals" that prefers the "lesser evil", yeah? Like voting Democrat because the Republicans are even worse? What the fuck were these bourgeois and petty-bourgeois liberals doing when the Kremlin was shelling schools and hospitals in Chechnya? Cheering the executioners of children that reside in the Kremlin? Yup. Wait, no - they were the said fucking executioners. But now that they're all into "freedom of expression" they deserve our support?

I couldn't give less of a fuck about freedom of expression in bourgeois society. Americans have plenty of "freedom of expression" and much good it does the proletariat! Drawing dicks on bridges doesn't put bread on the table.

On what exactly do you base the assumption that Pussy Riot members are liberal?
On the fact that they're acting like lackeys for the pathetic anti-Putin liberals in Russia who whine and cry about how autocratic Putin is and how real liberal democracy is needed and how Putin is taking a shit on this vision of liberal democracy?

Practically no one in this thread besides me, an expatriate from the Russian Federation, knows just what the hell is going on in Russia, except for whatever bullshit CNN or the Times fabricates is happening in Russia today and you people are gullible enough to believe.

Come on!

[Igor]

On the fact that they're acting like lackeys for the pathetic anti-Putin liberals in Russia who whine and cry about how autocratic Putin is and how real liberal democracy is needed and how Putin is taking a shit on this vision of liberal democracy?

Practically no one in this thread besides me, an expatriate from the Russian Federation, knows just what the hell is going on in Russia, except for whatever bullshit CNN or the Times fabricates is happening in Russia today and you people are gullible enough to believe.

People having different views than you on the matter doesn't mean they don't have a clue on what's going on in Russia, just so that you know. You can pretty much just fuck off if you're going to be all "heh I'm Russian you gullible westerners couldn't possible know"

How exactly are they 'lackeys' for anti-Putin liberals in Russia? Yeah, sure, they're supported by lots of anti-Putin liberals but that in itself doesn't mean anything. It's nice and dandy for you to cast such accusations, but I honestly haven't seen a single instance where they have acted like the liberal lackeys you seem to assume they are.

[l'Enfermé]

People having different views than you on the matter doesn't mean they don't have a clue on what's going on in Russia, just so that you know. You can pretty much just fuck off if you're going to be all "heh I'm Russian you gullible westerners couldn't possible know"

How exactly are they 'lackeys' for anti-Putin liberals in Russia? Yeah, sure, they're supported by lots of anti-Putin liberals but that in itself doesn't mean anything. It's nice and dandy for you to cast such accusations, but I honestly haven't seen a single instance where they have acted like the liberal lackeys you seem to assume they are.
You call me out because I implied that you're betraying your ignorance on the Pussy Riot shit, and then you proceed to betray your ignorance on the Pussy Riot shit.

This is ridiculous.

[Igor]

You call me out because I implied that you're betraying your ignorance on the Pussy Riot shit, and then you proceed to betray your ignorance on the Pussy Riot shit.

This is ridiculous.

So, your thing is just calling people ignorant and gullible and leave it at that?

You still haven't exactly explained how Pussy Rioters are liberal, you're just going around the fucking issue casting accusations at anyone showing support for them.

[l'Enfermé]

I'm not taking you seriously, because while you pretend that you know anything at all about Pussy Riot, you keep on saying that they are not liberals. If you fucking bothered to at least read the lyrics of their songs("Put Putin Away, put Putin Away!" - quite the revolutionary slogan! - or "Do a Tahrir on Red Square!"), you would know the facts. But no, you can't even be bothered to do that, I'm not going to waste time explaining everything to you like you're some child.

They're just third-wave feminist liberals, who are calling for a mere regime change(an undemocratic one, too!), and I certainly wouldn't give a shit if they get a life sentence.

[Igor]

I'm not taking you seriously, because while you pretend that you know anything at all about Pussy Riot, you keep on saying that they are not liberals. If you fucking bothered to at least read the lyrics of their songs("Put Putin Away, put Putin Away!" - quite the revolutionary slogan! - or "Do a Tahrir on Red Square!"), you would know the facts. But no, you can't even be bothered to do that, I'm not going to waste time explaining everything to you like you're some child.

They're just third-wave feminist liberals, who are calling for a mere regime change(an undemocratic one, too!), and I certainly wouldn't give a shit if they get a life sentence.

There is nothing inherently liberal in those lyrics you quoted. Opposition to Putin for sure isn't, neither is calling for popular uprising! They might not really be theoretically well-versed Marxists or anything like that but shit, most people will never be. Their politics aren't particularly, well and thought out but they're still miles away from your average liberal. And yes, I've actually read lyrics of several of their songs. Haven't been through the entire discography yknow or really even know how much shit they've produced, but I do have a general idea. Occasional pacifist calls is pretty much the only thing I disagree with them, otherwise their songs are pretty much general calls for uprising, shitting on Putin and feminist/LGBT stuff. It's not really deep analysis or anything, it's punk ffs. There's nothing inherently liberal or bourgeois in their lyrics.

But yeah, you're a huge fucktard anyways for not giving a shit if people get life sentences for singing protest songs, liberal or not really. If it's ok for people who're not revolutionary enough for you to rot in jail, I really don't even know what to say. That's really pretty petty bullshit, and you're a dick.

[l'Enfermé]

Opposition to Putin on the grounds that he isn't a liberal democrat IS inherently liberal, so you're the fucktard. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[Joe Hill]

but these girls are guilty of nothing more than singing.
The girls are guilty of petty hooliganism as defined by the Russian Soviet Federal Socialist Republic's Criminal Code, specifically article 206. They would be punished by a fine, detention for 10-15 days, or subjected to correctional labor for a month with a deduction in wages. The same criminal code also punishes incitement to racial, national and religious hatred. We communists demand the elimination of religion and therefore educate the people with atheism in order to instill the spirit of a scientific, materialist outlook. But at the same time, this must be done with civility: insulting religious believers or violating their rights are unacceptable because they are detrimental to the cause of socialism.

They're probably also guilty of disseminating anti-Soviet propaganda. They insult Putin on the basis of working with the state security services - drawn straight from the playbook of the imperialists and bourgeoisie.

Pussy Riot have engaged in actions that have had the intent to incite and outrage. They include: participating in an orgy in a museum, parading in public naked while covered in cockroaches, painting giant phalluses on the streets, masturbating with chicken carcasses in a market and departing with them stuffed into their genitals.


Understandably, the KPRF has not commented much on this case because Pussy Riot in no way are part of the workers' struggle, but are petit-bourgeois extremists whose actions play into the hands of the class enemy. Pussy Riot are also not of great significance to Russia's political affairs. Rather, their cause has been enthusiastically embraced by the bourgeois-liberal, Anglo-American media. Most Russians probably don't even know much about Pussy Riot because they get their news from the TV.

[Liberty]

It was a disgusting display which attacked the sanctity of a public institution. Not to mention that these women were sexually assaulting female officers on the Subway.

My own country conducts similar things, so I'm not sure why the Liberals are making such a fuss about it(ironically laws they themselves had passed).

These people should be locked up for the maximum of 3 years. It'll teach them a thing or two about respect.

[Liberty]

Also, the Russian Communist party supports the church, in this case, so I'm not sure why all of you are playing devil's advocate here...

When the world's 2nd largest Communist party(and the successor of the Soviet Communist party) speaks, I'd expect more lefties to listen.

[l'Enfermé]

The KPRF is not a Communist a party. It's a right-wing, social conservative party that advocates a more worker-friendly version of state capitalism than currently in existence. The fact that it claims to be a "communist" party in no way proves that it's one. The Soviet Union claimed to be democratic during it's entire existence, as did Nazi Germany, yet these claims are laughed at by everyone.

[¿Que?]

The question here is not what the left thinks. The left has had a pretty solid history of supporting prisoners political or otherwise.

The problem is a lot of people support this who otherwise show no interest in political participation beyond some shallow endorsements to issues framed in a very shallow and superficial way. Take the Kony fad. Nobody likes child abusers right? Therefore you have to support intervention. I mean, you are against child abuse, right?

Same thing here. I mean, you are against Putin right?

The left should support this, and use it as an opportunity to radicalize, educate and agitate. This is not by some general condition necessary though not necessarily sufficient, in what I am calling political fads. It is in this particular case, that some serious issues that the left works on can be brought to a more acquiescent public. Mostly, the collusion between church, state and business in capitalism.

In the Kony case, such issues could only be brought to light in opposition to the campaign.

[Ocean Seal]

So apparently their closing statement criticised the 'totalitarian' regime in Russia. I expect to see a torrent of RevLefters now denouncing them as no-good petit-bourgeois liberal scumbags.
Well they are, but that's still a ways better than Putin.

[Crux]

Opposition to Putin on the grounds that he isn't a liberal democrat IS inherently liberal, so you're the fucktard. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
I think, comrade, your analysis is motivated by your own political isolation and bitterness and that you are clearly unable to read the situation. Step down from your high horse for a moment will you?

[l'Enfermé]

I think, comrade, your analysis is motivated by your own political isolation and bitterness and that you are clearly unable to read the situation. Step down from your high horse for a moment will you?
Then you believe that opposition to Putin on the grounds that he isn't a liberal democrat is not inherently liberal? And I'm the one who's restricted?(!)

[bricolage]

pussy riot found guilty.

[Crux]

Then you believe that opposition to Putin on the grounds that he isn't a liberal democrat is not inherently liberal? And I'm the one who's restricted?(!)
No, I do not believe opposition to Putin on the basis that he is authoritarian is inherently liberal.

[l'Enfermé]

No, I do not believe opposition to Putin on the basis that he is authoritarian is inherently liberal.
Hahaha, Putin is no more an authoritarian than Cameron, Obama or Yoshihiko Noda.

[l'Enfermé]

Watching the verdict being given live right now, all 3 given 2 year sentences, starting at the date of their arrest(march something), they can appeal it within 10 days.

edit: prosecution asked for 3 years, btw. 2 of them were arrested on march 3 and the third one was arrested on march 16.

[Sasha]

lol, if the russian pussy-riot prosecuters tought this would discourage future action... ukrainian femino group femen just cut down an huge crucifix in kiev... topless... with an chainsaw....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/video/2012/aug/17/pussy-riot-supporters-around-world-video

now there is plenty of stuff i disagree about with femen but a thousand credits where credits are due!

[Sasha]

pussy riot released a new single online to coincide with the verdict called "putin lights up the fires", the guardian music bloggers editted an video to it out of footage from the trial and solidarity protests; http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/video/2012/aug/17/pussy-riot-release-new-single-video

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Jailed for 2 years. What a joke.

[l'Enfermé]

Jailed for 2 years. What a joke.
Given that could have been given 7 years for the law they broke, 2 years seems relatively lucky.

[brigadista]

apologies if im repeating my post in another thread but this seems to be the main one

yet no international outcry or support about ...

http://libcom.org/blog/pussy-riot-co...itically-18082

The UK also has no qualms over disproportionate sentencing or criminal sanctions for occupational protest.

Three members of the Russian punk band Pussy Riot have been sentenced to two years of imprisonment in a penal colony, following a protest-performance in a Russian Orthodox church. Maria Alyokhina, 24, Nadezhda Tolokonnikova, 22, and Yekaterina Samutsevich, 30, were all arrested after a video of the performance, which was interrupted by security, was posted online.

The clearly politically-motivated trial has attracted a great deal of international attention, as well as galvanising protest inside Russia. Solidarity protests have been held in front of the court (which saw Gary Kasparov, among others, being arrested), and at Russian embassies. Amnesty international has classified the group as “prisoners of conscience”.

The severity of their sentence for hooliganism aggravated by religious hatred has led to condemnations from a number of countries, including the US, Sweden and Germany. British foreign office minister Alistair Burt joined in, adding “I am deeply concerned by the sentencing of three members of the band Pussy Riot, which can only be considered a disproportionate response to an expression of political belief … Today's verdict calls into question Russia's commitment to protect these fundamental rights and freedoms.”

Britain of course is not above “disproportionate” sentences for political activity. Anti-cuts protester Omar Ibrahim was sentenced to 18 months imprisonment for picking up a joke-shop smoke bomb from the pavement during last march's anti-cuts demonstration an tossing it towards Topshop. No-one was harmed, but he was imprisoned for violent disorder.

Protesters committing the exact same “crime” as Pussy Riot – entering a property and protesting, in this case at Fortnum and Mason's – were arrested (after being told be the police that they wouldn't be if they left without a fuss), charged, and in the case of a number of defendants, convicted of aggravated trespass.

More recently, British anarchists returning from the St. Imier congress were detained by anti-terror police on the basis of their politics.

“Disproportion” in sentencing was also a very deliberate policy following last summer's riots.

Two men were jailed for four years for posting pages on facebook encouraging riots. One, Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, posted a page while drunk encouraging rioting, removed it and apologised when he woke up the next morning. No rioting took place. PM David Cameron defended the severity of the sentence.

Similarly, one man in Manchester, Anderson Fernandes, was sentenced to 18 months in prison for walking through the open door of an ice cream shop during the riots and taking one lick of ice cream.

Another North – West case was that of Stephen Carter, who picked up a bag of clothes he found in bushes in Salford. As these had been previously been looted, he was sentenced to 16 months in prison.

Such sentences are accepted to be enormous by western standards for public order offences.

The hypocrisy becomes even more galling when we consider the ongoing US practice of indefinite detention without trial, and European collusion in the rendition of terror suspects.

In the case of the US, UK, EU and other European countries, such criticism is much more likely motivated by geopolitical concerns than anything else.
__________________

[Crux]

Given that could have been given 7 years for the law they broke, 2 years seems relatively lucky.
"hooliganism"? Luck has nothing to do with it.

[l'Enfermé]

"hooliganism"? Luck has nothing to do with it.
Given the amount of Orthodox believers they pissed off, and the fact that they're feminists, 2 years is pretty lucky, though the short term they received was probably heavily influenced by all the international support they've been getting and Putin's public pleas to not judge them "too harshly".

[Crux]

Given the amount of Orthodox believers they pissed off, and the fact that they're feminists, 2 years is pretty lucky, though the short term they received was probably heavily influenced by all the international support they've been getting and Putin's public pleas to not judge them "too harshly".
Yes, how horrible that anyone would call this case to attention. Or wasn't that your argument before?

[l'Enfermé]

Yes, how horrible that anyone would call this case to attention. Or wasn't that your argument before?
My argument was that it's not our mission, as communists, to do that. Madonna and Sting can do whatever the fuck they want I don't care.

[Crux]

My argument was that it's not our mission, as communists, to do that. Madonna and Sting can do whatever the fuck they want I don't care.
And you think charges of "hooliganism" are not landed on people you deem worthy? Come off it.

Furthermore:
“Working-class consciousness cannot be genuine political consciousness unless the workers are trained to respond to all cases of tyranny, oppression, violence, and abuse, no matter what class is affected — unless they are trained, moreover, to respond from a [communist] point of view and no other. The consciousness of the working masses cannot be genuine class-consciousness, unless the workers learn, from concrete, and above all from topical, political facts and events to observe every other social class in all the manifestations of its intellectual, ethical, and political life; unless they learn to apply in practice the materialist analysis and the materialist estimate of all aspects of the life and activity of all classes, strata, and groups of the population. Those who concentrate the attention, observation, and consciousness of the working class exclusively, or even mainly, upon itself alone are not [communists]; for the self-knowledge of the working class is indissolubly bound up, not solely with a fully clear theoretical understanding — or rather, not so much with the theoretical, as with the practical, understanding — of the relationships between all the various classes of modern society, acquired through the experience of political life."
- Lenin, What is to be done?

[l'Enfermé]

The passage you quote from Lenin's WITBD just proves my point. Did you not notice this:

to respond from a [communist] point of view and no otherYou and the rest of the people in this thread are responding from a liberal-democratic point of view. If we as communists are not capable of presenting a communist point of view to the working class, and so far, I haven't seen that one, then no point of view should be presented by us at all.

I mean the Russian section of your CWI refers to Putin as "Bonaparte-Putin" on their website. How divorced are they from reality!

[Crux]

The passage you quote from Lenin's WITBD just proves my point. Did you not notice this:
You and the rest of the people in this thread are responding from a liberal-democratic point of view. If we as communists are not capable of presenting a communist point of view to the working class, and so far, I haven't seen that one, then no point of view should be presented by us at all.

I mean the Russian section of your CWI refers to Putin as "Bonaparte-Putin" on their website. How divorced are they from reality!
Just because we disagree with your "Putin's regime is just like any other and just as democratic" so-called analysis does not make us divorced from reality. Sorry.

[#FF0000]

the best part about this case is the people who are like BUT WHAT ABOUT XXXXXX WHY ISN'T ANYONE TALKING ABOUT THAT like people are goldfish and can only be conscious of one thing at a time and as if they'd ever talk about it if they weren't trying to make a point anyway

[bricolage]

actually I think the best part is that the british foreign office had to say pussy riot in a press statement.

[brigadista]

the best part about this case is the people who are like BUT WHAT ABOUT XXXXXX WHY ISN'T ANYONE TALKING ABOUT THAT like people are goldfish and can only be conscious of one thing at a time and as if they'd ever talk about it if they weren't trying to make a point anyway

If you are referring to my post - i am gobsmacked by the hypocrisy of people in general raising the pussy riot issue.

I posted it because there was widespread condemnation of youth in the uk during the riots and barely a whimper about the prison sentences received -

the support here for the deaths in custody campaigns is mainly from the victims own communities - i could mention more -

but when it comes to pussy riot - there is a roar of condemnation [ i am one of those voices by the way] the point is as the article i posted says

geopolitical concern - don't think I will be falling into that trap -

deaths in custody, sentences for rioters ,immigration detention and indefinite detention in the UK [amongst other things] causes me as much concern and is equally as unjust as the pussy riot charges and sentences - you just dont hear as much about it - it is clear why that is - western govs agendas that western countries are somehow more "democratic"...

same capitalism- different charges - same injustice

[Crux]

Russian Communist Party leader on Pussy Riot: “I would have whipped them” (http://www.factmag.com/2012/08/21/russian-communist-party-leader-on-pussy-riot-i-would-have-whipped-them/)

Glad to see the Stalin-nostalgics of KPRF come out with a sensibel position as always.

[Threetune]

Russian Communist Party leader on Pussy Riot: “I would have whipped them” (http://www.factmag.com/2012/08/21/russian-communist-party-leader-on-pussy-riot-i-would-have-whipped-them/)

Glad to see the Stalin-nostalgics of KPRF come out with a sensibel position as always.

Why are you glad?

There are no heroes in all this. All the players are out to bamboozle the working class out of any revolutionary understanding which is what makes a return to Leninist revolutionary theory of vital importance.

The contending bourgeois nationalist factions with their imperialist connections and backers would rather take their chances and plunge Russia into civil war than ever allow the working class to restart the proletarian dictatorship that was betrayed by soft brained peaceful coexistence revisionism assisted by western ‘anti-authority’ opportunist anarchism and Trotskyism.

And so the counter- revolution continues.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

To return to the topic for a fleeting moment, it's completely absurd that they were sentenced to two years, it could have been higher sure but any custodial sentence for there actions is absurd to me.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Why are you glad?

I think he was being sarcastic.


There are no heroes in all this. All the players are out to bamboozle the working class out of any revolutionary understanding which is what makes a return to Leninist revolutionary theory of vital importance.

Leninism is dead and defunct, the current state of Russia is indicative of that. Also, your insinuation that the members of Pussy Riot are somehow "just as bad" as the Russian authorities is based on what exactly? How many Chechens have Pussy Riot murdered?


The contending bourgeois nationalist factions with their imperialist connections and backers would rather take their chances and plunge Russia into civil war than ever allow the working class to restart the proletarian dictatorship that was betrayed by soft brained peaceful coexistence revisionism assisted by western ‘anti-authority’ opportunist anarchism and Trotskyism.

You do of course, have evidence that Pussy Riot is recieving meaningful support from imperialist entities, right?

Or is backing up your claims too bourgeois?


And so the counter- revolution continues.

Counter-revolution? Hardly. Russia isn't being dragged back to feudalism.

[Threetune]

To return to the topic for a fleeting moment, it's completely absurd that they were sentenced to two years, it could have been higher sure but any custodial sentence for there actions is absurd to me.

But ‘pussy riot’ are part of an anarchist art collective called ‘war’ who espouse a motherly array of liberal ‘left’ politics which dovetail in neatly with the bourgeois opposition to Putin. ‘Pussy Riot’ even called on Alexei Navalny as defence whiteness but failed, even after Navalny's famous November 2011 speech to racist nationalists - "We have problems with illegal migration, we have the problem of the Caucasus, we have a problem of ethnic crimes..., "

None of this motley collection of self serving wretches has any serious interest in the working classes of Russia or the poor of the planet and all the hypocritical waffle from the glitzy rich and famous of the world and their little ‘left’ echoes around the internet will not advance anti-oppression one jot.

[Crux]

Every now and then I click "view post" just to remind myself why I have threetune on ignore. I could quote Lenin at him all day and he still wouldn't get it, which is somewhat amusing considering what he claims to be. No matter.

Yeah, Dennis, it is messed up. It's not the only processes the courts have run against opposition activist recently (http://www.socialistworld.net/doc/5866), but I hardly think the attention this has been getting is a bad thing, as some seem to suggest.

[l'Enfermé]

To return to the topic for a fleeting moment, it's completely absurd that they were sentenced to two years, it could have been higher sure but any custodial sentence for there actions is absurd to me.
Most bourgeoisie countries have similar laws, for example in Germany pussy riot copycats I believe are currently locked up and could receive a 2 year sentence for doing some stupid shit in a catholic church.


I think he was being sarcastic.



Leninism is dead and defunct, the current state of Russia is indicative of that.
Marxism and Anarchism and Communism are long dead and defunct. "Leninism" isn't even a real thing, it's an invention of our Stalinist "comrade"(who dream of "liquidating" enemies of the "people" like you and me)


Also, your insinuation that the members of Pussy Riot are somehow "just as bad" as the Russian authorities is based on what exactly? How many Chechens have Pussy Riot murdered?
Pussy Riot have murdered thousands of my people! With their bad music...


Why are you glad?

There are no heroes in all this. All the players are out to bamboozle the working class out of any revolutionary understanding which is what makes a return to Leninist revolutionary theory of vital importance.

The contending bourgeois nationalist factions with their imperialist connections and backers would rather take their chances and plunge Russia into civil war than ever allow the working class to restart the proletarian dictatorship that was betrayed by soft brained peaceful coexistence revisionism assisted by western ‘anti-authority’ opportunist anarchism and Trotskyism.

And so the counter- revolution continues.

What the hell does Trotskyism and Anarchism have to do with Khrushchev and those revisionists(who revised what was already a revision, "Marxism-Leninism" -- this is so complicated!)? I mean come on! Trotsky was actually the only one who wasn't rehabilitated after Stalin kicked it. It's like you people completely ignore the fact that the entire upper leadership of the Stalinist Party, after the conclusion of the Great Purges, was hand-picked by Stalin. Practically the entire party leadership was killed during the Yezhovshina, 98 of 139 central committee members were executed, and replaced by even more devoted Stalinists. In the provinces, 319 out of 385 regional party secretaries and 2,210 out of 2,750 district secretaries got killed. There too, were replaced by even more devoted Stalinists. And your kind complains about how Krushchev was one of the main proponents of Stalin's cult of personality -- of course he was, he had to be, if he wanted to survive!

Apparently, after most of the party leadership was killed and replaced with the most devoted Stalinists, all of these Stalinists became pro-capitalist revisionists the moment Stalin died! And they were assisted by the unholy duo of Anarchists and Trotskyists(trotskyo-fascist zinoviete right-deviationist saboteurs and wreckers!)!

Please.

[Threetune]

Most bourgeoisie countries have similar laws, for example in Germany pussy riot copycats I believe are currently locked up and could receive a 2 year sentence for doing some stupid shit in a catholic church.


Marxism and Anarchism and Communism are long dead and defunct. "Leninism" isn't even a real thing, it's an invention of our Stalinist "comrade"(who dream of "liquidating" enemies of the "people" like you and me)


Pussy Riot have murdered thousands of my people! With their bad music...


What the hell does Trotskyism and Anarchism have to do with Khrushchev and those revisionists(who revised what was already a revision, "Marxism-Leninism" -- this is so complicated!)? I mean come on! Trotsky was actually the only one who wasn't rehabilitated after Stalin kicked it. It's like you people completely ignore the fact that the entire upper leadership of the Stalinist Party, after the conclusion of the Great Purges, was hand-picked by Stalin. Practically the entire party leadership was killed during the Yezhovshina, 98 of 139 central committee members were executed, and replaced by even more devoted Stalinists. In the provinces, 319 out of 385 regional party secretaries and 2,210 out of 2,750 district secretaries got killed. There too, were replaced by even more devoted Stalinists. And your kind complains about how Krushchev was one of the main proponents of Stalin's cult of personality -- of course he was, he had to be, if he wanted to survive!

Apparently, after most of the party leadership was killed and replaced with the most devoted Stalinists, all of these Stalinists became pro-capitalist revisionists the moment Stalin died! And they were assisted by the unholy duo of Anarchists and Trotskyists(trotskyo-fascist zinoviete right-deviationist saboteurs and wreckers!)!

Please.

Anti-communist revisionism opened the ‘Pandora’s box’ of counter revolution and the Trots, anarchists and now Putin, Alexei Navalny, ‘pussy rioters’ and other deranged nationalist types have all contributed their particular brand of idealism to confuse the matters.

If Leninism isn’t a “real thing” and presents no revolutionary threat to all established order, why are so many of you so exercised about it?

[Threetune]

Every now and then I click "view post" just to remind myself why I have threetune on ignore. I could quote Lenin at him all day and he still wouldn't get it, which is somewhat amusing considering what he claims to be. No matter.

Yeah, Dennis, it is messed up. It's not the only processes the courts have run against opposition activist recently (http://www.socialistworld.net/doc/5866), but I hardly think the attention this has been getting is a bad thing, as some seem to suggest.

Oh yes and guess who was defending Pussy Riot apart from the rightwing bourgeois nationalist Alexei Navalny who makes racist speeches? Yes folks that great defender of liberty (the US variety) Garry the groveller Kasparov who received the ‘Keeper of the Flame’ award from theCenter for Security Policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Security_Policy)(a USthink tank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_tank)) for his contributions "to the defence of the United States and American values around the world"! Pussy riot and the western ‘left’ sure do keep interesting company don’t they Majakovskij? :laugh:

[Sasha]

maybe for the benefit of the discussion here i should change the title to "the wrong reasons to oppose pussy riot", the rest of the article still aplies though...


The Wrong Reasons to Back Pussy Riot

By VADIM NIKITIN

Published: August 20, 2012

From Madonna to Bjork, from the elite New Yorker to the populist Daily Mail, the world united in supporting Russia’s irreverent feminist activists Pussy Riot against the blunt cruelty inflicted on them by the state. It may not have stopped Vladimir Putin’s kangaroo court from sentencing them to two years in prison on charges of hooliganism, but blanket international media pressure helped turn the case into a major embarrassment for the Kremlin.


For Op-Ed, follow @nytopinion (https://twitter.com/#%21/nytopinion)





Yet there is something about the West’s embrace of the young women’s cause that should make us deeply uneasy, as Pussy Riot’s philosophy, activism and even music quickly took second place to its usefulness in discrediting one of America’s geopolitical foes. Twenty years after the end of the Cold War, are dissident intellectuals once again in danger of becoming pawns in the West’s anti-Russian narrative?
Back in the ’70s, the United States and its allies cared little about what Soviet dissidents were actually saying, so long as it was aimed against the Kremlin. No wonder so many Americans who had never read Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s books cheered when he dissed the Soviet Union later felt so shocked, offended and even betrayed when he criticized many of the same shortcomings in his adoptive homeland. Wasn’t this guy supposed to be on our side?
Using dissidents to score political points against the Russian regime is as dangerous as adopting a pet tiger: No matter how domesticated they may seem, in the end they are free spirits, liable to maul the hand that feeds them.
How many fans of Pussy Riot’s zany “punk prayer” in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior and Nadezhda Tolokonnikova’s erudite and moving closing statement were equally thrilled by her participation, naked and heavily pregnant, in a public orgy at a Moscow museum in 2008? That performance, by the radical art group Voina (Russian for “war”), was meant to illustrate how Russians were abused by their government. Voina had previously set fire to a police car and drew obscene images on a St. Petersburg drawbridge.
Stunts like that would get you arrested just about anywhere, not just in authoritarian Russia. But Pussy Riot and its comrades at Voina come as a full package: You can’t have the fun, pro-democracy, anti-Putin feminism without the incendiary anarchism, extreme sexual provocations, deliberate obscenity and hard-left politics.
Unless you are comfortable with all that (and I strongly suspect 99 percent of Pussy Riot’s fans in the mainstream media are not), then standing behind Pussy Riot only now, when it is obviously blameless and the government clearly guilty, is pure opportunism. And just like in the bad old days, such knee-jerk yet selective support for Russian dissidents — without fully engaging with their ideas — is not only hypocritical but also does a great disservice to their cause.
A former Soviet dissident and current member of the anti-Putin opposition, Eduard Limonov, knows such cynicism too well. Thrown out of the Soviet Union and welcomed in New York as a Cold War trophy, Limonov soon learned that it wasn’t the dissent part that the United States loved about Soviet dissidents, but their anti-communism. A bristly and provocative anti-Soviet leftist, he got to work doing what he did best — taking on the establishment — and quickly found himself in hot water again, this time with the Americans. Limonov concluded that “the F.B.I. is just as zealous in putting down American radicals as the K.G.B. is with its own radicals and dissidents.”
At the core of much of the media fever over Pussy Riot lies a fundamental misunderstanding of what these Russian dissidents are about. Some outlets have portrayed the case as a quest for freedom of expression and other ground rules of liberal democracy. Yet the very phrase “freedom of expression,” with its connotations of genteel protest as a civic way to blow off some steam while life goes on, is alien to Russian radical thought. The members of Pussy Riot are not liberals looking for self-expression. They are self-confessed descendants of the surrealists and the Russian futurists, determined to radically, even violently, change society.
Anyone who has bothered to see them beyond their relevance as anti-Kremlin proxies will know that these young people are as contemptuous of capitalism as they are of Putinism. They are targeting not just Russian authoritarianism, but, in Tolokonnikova’s words, the entire “corporate state system.” And that applies to the West as much as to Russia itself. It includes many of the fawning foreign media conglomerates covering the trial, like Murdoch’s News Corp., and even such darlings of the anti-Putin “liberal opposition” establishment as the businessman and anti-corruption campaigner Aleksei Navalny.
Pussy Riot’s fans in the West need to understand that their heroes’ dissent will not stop at Putin; neither will it stop if and when Russia becomes a “normal” liberal democracy. Because what Pussy Riot wants is something that is equally terrifying, provocative and threatening to the established order in both Russia and the West (and has been from time immemorial): freedom from patriarchy, capitalism, religion, conventional morality, inequality and the entire corporate state system. We should only support these brave women if we, too, are brave enough to go all the way.



Vadim Nikitin is a journalist and Russia analyst.
AGENCE GLOBAL


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/opinion/the-wrong-reasons-to-back-pussy-riot.html?_r=1

[Threetune]

maybe for the benefit of the discussion here i should change the title to "the wrong reasons to oppose pussy riot", the rest of the article still aplies though...



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/opinion/the-wrong-reasons-to-back-pussy-riot.html?_r=1


Photo: Nadezhda Tolkonnikova and Alexei Navalnyi (only a few weeks before the attack against the church)
http://juhamolari.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/anarchist-pussy-riot-and--dirty.html (http://juhamolari.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/anarchist-pussy-riot-and-voina-dirty.html)
Are the cautious and hesitant ‘Pussy Riot’ and ‘Voina’ fans on here going to clear up this connection with outright reaction in Russia and the Canada link or shall we keep digging?

[Threetune]

Posted by Majakovskij
"guilt-by association? Have a negrep, and No I won't take you off ignore."


Oh I say, given the cold shoulder again by Majakovskij for exposing the connections between his heart throbs in pussy riot and the nationalist reactionaries. :laugh:

[Igor]

Photo: Nadezhda Tolkonnikova and Alexei Navalnyi (only a few weeks before the attack against the church)
http://juhamolari.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/anarchist-pussy-riot-and--dirty.html (http://juhamolari.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/anarchist-pussy-riot-and-voina-dirty.html)
Are the cautious and hesitant ‘Pussy Riot’ and ‘Voina’ fans on here going to clear up this connection with outright reaction in Russia and the Canada link or shall we keep digging?

Dude you have great sources, that Juha Molari guy is a major league reactionary piece of shit. His blog posts in Finnish are largely about just defending Russian state, stating that this court decision "shows Russia is a real Rechtsttaat*" and constantly referring to them as "criminals" because for the guy, that's what "anarchism" and insulting the Orthodox church are about. The guy is self-describedly "pro-Kreml" and "against homosexual relations". He's member of the Finnish Anti-Fascist Committee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Anti-Fascist_Committee) which, regardless of the name, has nothing to do with anti-fascism and they mostly like to spout Kreml talking points in the Finnish media. He's not the kind of guy whose blog you probably want to spread around here.

* for the lack of better term, "justice state" sounds stupid idk if there's actually an English equivalent

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

"guilt-by association? Have a negrep, and No I won't take you off ignore."


Oh I say, given the cold shoulder again by Majakovskij for exposing the connections between his heart throbs in pussy riot and the nationalist reactionaries. :laugh:

"Guilt by association" is a fallacy, ya friggin' pizzle. Think about it this way - if you were asked to verbally defend someone who stands accused of tweaking the nose of a bourgeois state, I imagine you would be pretty fucking pissed off if the judge threw out your statement completely simply because you are a communist or whatever.

Maybe it's too much to expect either logic or empathy from you...

[Sasha]

Photo: Nadezhda Tolkonnikova and Alexei Navalnyi (only a few weeks before the attack against the church)
http://juhamolari.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/anarchist-pussy-riot-and--dirty.html (http://juhamolari.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/anarchist-pussy-riot-and-voina-dirty.html)
Are the cautious and hesitant ‘Pussy Riot’ and ‘Voina’ fans on here going to clear up this connection with outright reaction in Russia and the Canada link or shall we keep digging?

You, of all people really want to play that game?

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ap_pope_fidel_castro_dm_120328_wg.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/MolotovRibbentropStalin.jpg/300px-MolotovRibbentropStalin.jpg
Etc etc etc...
Get my point?

[Threetune]

Dude you have great sources, that Juha Molari guy is a major league reactionary piece of shit. His blog posts in Finnish are largely about just defending Russian state, stating that this court decision "shows Russia is a real Rechtsttaat*" and constantly referring to them as "criminals" because for the guy, that's what "anarchism" and insulting the Orthodox church are about. The guy is self-describedly "pro-Kreml" and "against homosexual relations". He's member of the Finnish Anti-Fascist Committee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Anti-Fascist_Committee) which, regardless of the name, has nothing to do with anti-fascism and they mostly like to spout Kreml talking points in the Finnish media. He's not the kind of guy whose blog you probably want to spread around here.

* for the lack of better term, "justice state" sounds stupid idk if there's actually an English equivalent


Thank you, honestly, thank you very much. I really do understand that all the sources of all the quoted information by all sides should be challenged. I and every Leninist revolutionary on the planet will welcome that.
However, are you saying the photos here: Nadezhda Tolkonnikova and Alexei Navalnyi (only a few weeks before the attack against the church) are fake???
http://juhamolari.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/anarchist-pussy-riot-and--dirty.html (http://juhamolari.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/anarchist-pussy-riot-and-voina-dirty.html)

[Threetune]

Q) Why not welcome Nadezhda Tolkonnikova into your real ‘revleft organisations’?
A) Because the anarchist cover is compromised. :laugh:

[Threetune]

Two Revleft boss moderators have been caught out backing western backed colour coded revolution against Russia. Read back for more anti-communist bollocks from these ‘lefts’ like our hilariously confused Majakovskij.

[Crux]

Dude you have great sources, that Juha Molari guy is a major league reactionary piece of shit. His blog posts in Finnish are largely about just defending Russian state, stating that this court decision "shows Russia is a real Rechtsttaat*" and constantly referring to them as "criminals" because for the guy, that's what "anarchism" and insulting the Orthodox church are about. The guy is self-describedly "pro-Kreml" and "against homosexual relations". He's member of the Finnish Anti-Fascist Committee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Anti-Fascist_Committee) which, regardless of the name, has nothing to do with anti-fascism and they mostly like to spout Kreml talking points in the Finnish media. He's not the kind of guy whose blog you probably want to spread around here.

* for the lack of better term, "justice state" sounds stupid idk if there's actually an English equivalent
Of course he cites reactionaries to try and back his claims, that's why he sometimes is amusing. But guys this thread is not about threetune and his particular delusions.

Oh and thanks again, psycho, for posting that article. L'Enferme any response to it? or indeed from anyone going "oh they're liberals". Not you threetune, I couldn't care less what you think.

[l'Enfermé]

I'm restricted and the guy above me isn't...oh, come on!

edit; not Majakovskij, I was talking about the Stalin-worshipper. And no, I haven't read it yet but I'll check it out.

edit edit; and the "l" in "l'Enfermé (http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=62052)" isn't supposed to be capitalized :(

[Crux]

I'm restricted and the guy above me isn't...oh, come on!
Believe me, I don't disagree with your sentiment in the slightest. Unless you by "the guy above me" was referencing yours truly. But what's your response to the NYT piece?

[Threetune]

Believe me, I don't disagree with your sentiment in the slightest. Unless you by "they guy above me" was referencing yours truly. But what's your response to the NYT piece?

Ha, ha, :laugh:

This is real smart ‘left’ theory on display when confounded by evidence of reactionary collusion. Sit back and enjoy folks. (communist folks, that is).
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8VxjxaTlG5w/UDTBIh-z0iI/AAAAAAAAHnQ/WpvPPGHHoMw/s1600/Nadezda%2BTolokonnikova%2BAlexei%2BNavalnyi.jpg

Photo: Nadezhda Tolkonnikova and Alexei Navalnyi (only a few weeks before the attack against the church)

[Threetune]

Another western stunted-up provocation that the fake ‘lefts’ like the most. As is plain and obvious on here.

[Crux]

Threetune: Keep up the one-liner picture posts. Because spamming and trolling is in fact not a restrict able offence, it's bannable. Now I could explain things like context and how the protest movement in russia work but since you are quite imprevious to even the most basic facts I consider that a waste of time. In fact save for reminding you about the forum rules, for the benefit of those who for some reason don't have you on ignore, this post is probably a waste of my time as well.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Ha, ha, :laugh:

This is real smart ‘left’ theory on display when confounded by evidence of reactionary collusion. Sit back and enjoy folks. (communist folks, that is).
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8VxjxaTlG5w/UDTBIh-z0iI/AAAAAAAAHnQ/WpvPPGHHoMw/s1600/Nadezda%2BTolokonnikova%2BAlexei%2BNavalnyi.jpg

Photo: Nadezhda Tolkonnikova and Alexei Navalnyi (only a few weeks before the attack against the church)

Of course Threetune, being the fucking smart guy he is, fails to provide any context for this picture. They could be talking to each other (about what?), merely bumping into each other, or about to have an argument for all I know.

Or are we supposed to just assume that they are in 100% complete and total agreement with each other on the basis of them appearing in one photo together?

Seriously Threetune, you're not supporting your case very well and instead you are coming across as having an axe to grind simply because some punks don't like the bourgeois Russian government (hardly counter-revolutionary!).

[Threetune]

Of course Threetune, being the fucking smart guy he is, fails to provide any context for this picture. They could be talking to each other (about what?), merely bumping into each other, or about to have an argument for all I know.

Or are we supposed to just assume that they are in 100% complete and total agreement with each other on the basis of them appearing in one photo together?

Seriously Threetune, you're not supporting your case very well and instead you are coming across as having an axe to grind simply because some punks don't like the bourgeois Russian government (hardly counter-revolutionary!).


But the context is clearly stated in my post number 99 above if you would bother to read the thread properly, I said:
“‘Pussy Riot’ even called on Alexei Navalny as defence whiteness but failed, even after Navalny's famous November 2011 speech to racist nationalists.”
Where Alexei Navalny said"We have problems with illegal migration, we have the problem of the Caucasus, we have a problem of ethnic crimes... "

Would you invite this man as defence whiteness to any trial of yours? ‘Pussy riot’ did! Are you not just a tiny bit curious as to why they did that after “merely bumping into each other, or about to have an argument” as you put it?

So Majakovskij, because I gave the correct Leninist warning- “There are no heroes in all this,” you all decided with your anarchist pals to play ‘lets gang-up on the Leninist ’ and you got your asses bit again for which you then start threatening sanctions and bandings in true CWI Stalinist style.

I was correct- “There are no heroes in all this.” ‘Pussy riot’ have some dodgy connections to Alexei Navalny at best and any would-be communist revolutionary worker would do well to take notice of that.
However, your CWI.net had already (not surprisingly) committed itself to ACTIVE SUPPORT for the dodgy ‘pussy riot’ group and you were then duty-bound to follow your party leaders line and attempt to continue the ‘left’ cover-up of all their connections.

I think your position as Moderator should be investigated by the managers of Revleft at least, but that I know is a vain idea. This issue will continue to fester as long as there is an ‘opposition’ movement to Putin and you conduct and the ACTIVE SUPPORT you give to ‘pussy riot’ will be remembered on Revleft even if you do ban me.

Edit: BTW why did you not threaten Psycho for one-liner picture posts? Strange that.
As I correctly said to start with: “There are no heroes in all this”.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

But the context is clearly stated in my post number 99 above if you would bother to read the thread properly, I said:

I meant the context of the image you posted, genius. When and where was it taken, what was going on? Who took it, and for what purpose? Why are you not providing this information in the first place?

In fact, I'm not even sure why you are posting the picture, given that nobody actually asked for photographs.


“‘Pussy Riot’ even called on Alexei Navalny as defence whiteness but failed, even after Navalny's famous November 2011 speech to racist nationalists.”
Where Alexei Navalny said"We have problems with illegal migration, we have the problem of the Caucasus, we have a problem of ethnic crimes... "

I''d be more interested in what he said at the trial.


Would you invite this man as defence whiteness to any trial of yours? ‘Pussy riot’ did! Are you not just a tiny bit curious as to why they did that after “merely bumping into each other, or about to have an argument” as you put it?

Clearly you're the one who is more familiar with whatever relationship they have. Perhaps you can actually share with us what you know, or are you going to continue playing silly buggers?



So Majakovskij, because I gave the correct Leninist warning- “There are no heroes in all this,” you all decided with your anarchist pals to play ‘lets gang-up on the Leninist ’ and you got your asses bit again for which you then start threatening sanctions and bandings in true CWI Stalinist style.

I didn't need Majakovskij's encouragement to find your arrogant theatrics diverting.

[Threetune]

You have done nothing to divert attention away from the obvious conclusion that this whole episode was stunted up by nationalists and ‘leftists’ who found each other in their opportunist sucking up to Washington.
But 'Nova Mind ay'. You just carry on with your “alternative history” and ignore reality. :lol:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You have done nothing to divert attention away from the obvious conclusion that this whole episode was stunted up by nationalists and ‘leftists’ who found each other in their opportunist sucking up to Washington.

So you're saying you don't know what Navalny said in Pussy Riot's defence?


But 'Nova Mind ay'. You just carry on with your “alternative history” and ignore reality. :lol:

1) It's spelled "Nova Mundi"

2) It's speculative fiction, not alternative history. It's set in the future.

3) I can work on creative writing projects and talk about the real world, they are not mutually exclusive. Maybe if you weren't too busy sneering you'd realise that.

[Sasha]

“alternative history”



wow, thats rich coming from you... :laugh:

[Threetune]

wow, thats rich coming from you... :laugh:

There you go again "alternative history" is a quote from NoXion's blog not mine. But a subjective slob like you wouldn't care about that detail. :lol:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

There you go again "alternative history" is a quote from NoXion's blog not mine. But a subjective slob like you wouldn't care about that detail. :lol:

The words "alternative history" do not occur anywhere in my latest blog entry. You're the one who's clearly not paying attention.

[Threetune]

The words "alternative history" do not occur anywhere in my latest blog entry. You're the one who's clearly not paying attention.

And your other blogg entrys? Check out your entire profile mate!

[Crux]

And your other blogg entrys? Check out your entire profile mate!
You're just begging for an infraction for trolling aren't you? Let's make this simple, the next time you try to veer off topic you will face administrative consequences. And yes that includes whatever lame come-back you're thinking of giving to this post.

So a little bit about Russian political context, doubtlessly lost on threetune because he's busy playing with his reactionary tinfoil hats but this is not for him:
J86eUiW17G4

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

And your other blogg entrys? Check out your entire profile mate!

Nope, I have no interest in alternative history. I am a huge nerd for subjects like astronomy and cosmology and planetary science, plus my number one favourite narrative genre of entertainment includes science fiction, especially that which weaves in fantastic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy) elements. I suppose you could use that to make fun of me, right? It'll be just like school again, where kids get bullied for being "geeks" or "goths" or whatever.

You still got no idea what Navalny said at the trial, eh?

[Crux]

Rejoice. threetune is gone forever.

[redbrigade]

Free Pussy Riot, horrible music though

[l'Enfermé]

Free Pussy Riot, horrible music though
Not real music, more like ear-torture.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I think I understand now why Threetune thought I was into alternative history. He didn't read beyond the title of my blogpost, so he didn't find out that the (pre)history of my creative writing project begins in 2020, which is in the future.

[Igor]

Not real music, more like ear-torture.

if i don't like music it's not music gdfdsfd gdgfd

[Blake's Baby]

...gdfdsfd gdgfd

If that's a chord structure, I have no idea what 's' is.