How many people will be killed in the revolution?

[Chartist]

By the revolutionaries themselves I mean.

Obviously it's the standard charge thrown at revolutionary socialism, that it inevitably leads to mass terror and the deaths of thousands or millions. And if you take a look at the list of successful socialist revolutions, I think pretty much all of them utilised mass terror as a political tool at some point or another.

Do the revlefts on this forum agree that this is the case? If not, what about the historical examples? If so, do you think it's a case of the ends justifying the means?

[TheGodlessUtopian]

The short answer: it is impossible to know as no one knows under what conditions the revolution will begin, develop and end.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Probably around 300 BILLION people

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThsHwm-jz7vBXv3xpSREy6tm5mR_P9s6Yqr0hzG6IMrjQrbRUE

[Positivist]

The short answer: it is impossible to know as no one knows under what conditions the revolution will begin, develop and end.

Yes this is very much the case. It also depends heavily upon how powerful the reactionary opposition is.

[eric922]

Sorry, my crystal ball is broken.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Who many will be killed... By the revolutionaries themselves I mean.9,035. ... It's an unknowable question as to how much people trying to liberate themselves are going to face. You could also just as easily ask: how many people will inevitably die from there not having been a revolution?

But seriously, the amount of violence in a revolution depends on the conditions and events surrounding that revolution.


Obviously it's the standard charge thrown at revolutionary socialism, that it inevitably leads to mass terror and the deaths of thousands or millions. And if you take a look at the list of successful socialist revolutions, I think pretty much all of them utilised mass terror as a political tool at some point or another. It's a standard charge irregardless to it's actual relevance because there's a lot of anti-radical propaganda in every society. The charge: "why fight if it's only going to produce something more or less the same or even worse" has been an effective one and an appeal to demoralization.

Now, there has been violence and terror in socialist uprisings and pseudo-socialist uprisings and anti-communist actions as well. In fact violence and terror are parts of all uprisings and revolutions and counterrevolutions. Because revolutions upend all social classes, often the social group in society that can rally the masses to supporting it's leadership can come out on top. The issue that arises then when a minority ruling class takes over is that through the revolution they have raised the expectations and the experience of the masses which they need to exploit. The urban and rural poor of New England in the American Revolution weren't going to be satisfied by a new set of bourgeois trade rules, they wanted land reform, reduction of debts or food prices and so on - and they are the ones who made the revolution and they know it on a certain level. So repression then becomes necessary to establish the new order. After the American Revolution, farmers begin to rebel against taxes and the new state judges that replaced the British ones but were still ruling in favor of the rich. So the new ruling class created an army, they cut back on free-speech during the French Revolution and tried to eliminate subversive writing. Pretty much a lot of the things that led to the revolution in the First place. France is more complicated, but generally when there is a revolution in which a minority takes power, they then must repress the majority in order to establish their power.

In many of the 3rd world anti-imperialist revolutions of the 20th century (weather they called themselves "communist" or nationalist or whatever) there was a similar pattern because usually it was the representatives of the local bourgeois that came to power and led these revolutions - even the "communist" ones. Russia is also different because there was an internal counter-revolution in my view which then led to a minority class assuming hegemony in society which also required repression opposition--repression of the Bolshevik veterans of the Revolution often.

So I think for the question of if there would be MASS repression after a revolution, I think you can say this has generally been the case for most previous revolutions of all kinds. But, there is a difference when it comes to real working class revolution in that a sucessful revolution would need very little repression because the new group coming to power would be a majority group. I don't think there will be zero repression because I think workers would want to repress counter-revolutionary forces and ex-police or military who might be able to create a terrorist opposition or whatnot, but for the most part the people who make the revolution will be the people who come into power.

[milkmiku]

Unknowable What? No no no, the population must be reduced to 500 million, The Annunaki have per-destanined it.

[Book O'Dead]

Probably around 300 BILLION people

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThsHwm-jz7vBXv3xpSREy6tm5mR_P9s6Yqr0hzG6IMrjQrbRUE

I was going to try to come up with something funny as well but this I cannot top.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

The answers will vary as much as Tunisia's and Syria's revolutions do.

In the US, I see loads of people dying until Batman escapes from his prison and returns to kill Bane in a most epic conclusion to the saga.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Exactly 72,817,394 people.

[Zostrianos]

Everyone will die in the Revolution http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc319/bcdsecretsister/emoticons/devil.gif

[MarxSchmarx]

The question is not how many people will be killed in the revolution, but rather, how many people will be killed without a revolution?

[Commiekirby]

Unknowable What? No no no, the population must be reduced to 500 million, The Annunaki have per-destanined it.

Pfft, we all know that the Annunaki are losers compared to the infamous Inter-dimensional Spider Jews. Spider Jews want EVERYONE dead.

[#FF0000]

all of them.

[Leftsolidarity]

948,734,837,921.5 people exactly

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Since it has been determined by RevLeft's crack team of social experts that in the coming revolution EVERYONE will be killed I am closing this thread.