HUMAN MOTIVATION

[Monty Cantsin]

A lot of what we talk about, communism, socialism, capitalism and so on. Comes down to one overriding factor human motivation Marx said history is dictated by mans aims. But I would like to ask is what do you think mans aims are? We’ve seen what happens when someone is motivated purely by self interest you get someone like Hermann Goering. But then also we have people like Ernesto motivated by love of humanity.

So where do you think human nature falls under self interest, the good of humanity or a mix ?

[New Tolerance]

Humans are motivated by their memories. (Not completely though)

(You know what I mean right?)

[Fidel Castro]

This is an interesting question. Aristotle would argue that mans aim is to achieve happiness (eudaimonea). I think there is something in this:

Ask Goering why he why he want to better his own lot - because it makes him happy

Ask Che why he would like the world to be just - because it makes him happy

and why do they want to be happy? Well, they just do, happiness is the ultimate end (telos)


I'm not sure is this theory of Aristotle's is correct, but it is worth consideration. ;)

[seen_che]

I Believe In Love
I Believe In Love
I Believe In Love
I Believe In Love
I believe that NOW is the time for all men, to come to the age of my countrier.........



FROm HAIR

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 12:54 AM

Ask Goering why he why he want to better his own lot - because it makes him happy

Ask Che why he would like the world to be just - because it makes him happy

and why do they want to be happy? Well, they just do, happiness is the ultimate end (telos)


I feel that happiness is not the goal but the by-product.

goering wanted to be famous and seems as a hero and at the same time very well off. When he achieved this if only for a brief time, he was happy.

che is first goal was to become a world famous doctor, but then found a new direction even though both involved his love of humanity.

What I’m trying to get at is that man's aims is to leave something behind to be remembered because not every one believes in a after live so this live is what counts.

[peaccenicked]

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...t=19378&st=20#2 (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=23&t=19378&st=20#2)

[cubist]

ah happiness or self actualisation as maslow believed

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 01:55 PM
http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...t=19378&st=20#2 (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=23&t=19378&st=20#2)
what do you mean by puting this link hear? you want me to reply to you or were talking about human motivation so you wont other people to have a look there too?

[Fidel Castro]

Surely though, Che would have expected to gain some satisfaction, happiness, by knowing that he was improving life for many? Is anyone suggesting Che would have done so if it gave him no satisfaction at all?

[Monty Cantsin]

No what I was saying is that the satisfaction was only a by-product of him improving life for so many thus reaching his goals.

[peaccenicked]

The latter Euripidies.

I thought it would be relevant for other people.
I could have just copied my post out but the link was easier.
Sorry to confuse you.

[Fidel Castro]

No what I was saying is that the satisfaction was only a by-product of him improving life for so many thus reaching his goals.

AHHHHHHHHH, good point. Would you say then, that as self-satisfaction is just a by-product, that Che would have still done what he did, even though he gained no satisfaction from it?

[peaccenicked]

In Maslows self actualising psychology there is a hierarchy of needs.
I think divorce might illustrate it well.
The lower need sexual pleasure is superceded by the higher need love,
In this case the feeling that it might be gained elsewhere.

Greed is not a higher need.
The aestethic need to see another smile is a higher need.


Socialism on a pschological level is the universalisation of the priority of higher needs.

Capitalism brings people down to the barest level.

Is it selfish not to see beyond capitalism or just plain stupid


PRAISE OF COMMUNISM

( Bertold Brecht)

It's sensible,
anyone can understand it.
It's easy.
You're not an exploiter,
so you can grasp it.
It's a good thing for you,
find out more about it.
The stupid call it stupid
and the squalid call it squalid.
It is against squalor and
against stupidity.
the exploiters call it a crime
But we know:
It is the end of crime.
It is not madness,but
The end of madness.
It is not the riddle
But the solution.
It is the simple thing
So hard to achieve.

[Monty Cantsin]

Genghis2003 like peaccenicked said I feel that there are levels of motivation ches aims of helping the masses would have been him top aim, becoming famous are much lower aim, last being happy which would have been on the list but not a high level motivation this comes from him achieving his other goals.

[Fidel Castro]

I get you now.

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 12:14 AM
I get you now.
That’s nice but do you feel the same way or would you explain human motivation differently?

[LiquidX]

I think it all depends on the person. Some people are driven by greed, some by power, some by money...the list goes on. But i'd have to say that it all comes back to happiness. A person wants money to be happy...this is constantly preached in the north american society. Tv, radio, movies, etc. promote being rich as being happy, which is not always the case. I think it all just comes down to happiness, whatever it is that makes you happy motivates you in life.

[Fidel Castro]

That’s nice but do you feel the same way or would you explain human motivation differently?

Well, I think myself that to an extent humans are motivated by our basic instincts and needs, e.g reproduction, hunger, thurst etc. However I do believe that our motivation can be a result of our society, our personality and our experiences.

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2003, 01:31 AM

Well, I think myself that to an extent humans are motivated by our basic instincts and needs, e.g reproduction, hunger, thurst etc. However I do believe that our motivation can be a result of our society, our personality and our experiences.
Yes I would say the same things so there are higher levels of motivation. Then basic instincts and need that have to be dealt with, in order to achieve our main objectives/motivations.

[Monty Cantsin]

well does anyone have any other thoughts on this, any other ways of thinking about it?

[Purple]

i believe that my reason to go on is because im afraid of death, and therefore, when i might aswell are going to stay at this fucked up place, i struggle for happiness, and someone to share life with...

[Hate Is Art]

Everyone is motivated by something different, it's to general to say people are motivated by the need to be happy and just that. Everyone does things for different reasons and unless your that person the reasoning behind that can be hard to see.

[Trissy]

My own view on the aims of man come from ideas presented by Nietzsche (and I'm not talking about the distorted views which the Nazi's used as a base for there philosophy. Nietzsche was not a Nazi, and he feared his work would be used to justify crimes like they commited).

In man there are two fundamental wills or motivating forces. The first is the quite obvious and can be seen around us in the world. It is the will to life, a desire to carry on living. It is vissible in things like the 'fight or flight' mentality in nature where if cornered we will either fight for our life or run for it. It can be denied of course in cases such as trauma making someone commit suicide or someone sacraficing their lives for someone else, but it is there none the less.

The other aim of man is the will to power, a notion that is often misunderstood by people (not least because they read the book 'The will to power' and don't realise that it was published after his death by his anti-semitic sister - something he was against). The will to power is not so much a craving for positions of power which means people crush whoever stands in their way, but more a desire to take control of your own life and to face your weaknesses. Part of the will to power is naturally a desire for happiness, which would come from having complete control of your life and accepting the consequences of your actions. The will to power is as much existential as it is ideological.