Any Existential Marxists Left?

[JPSartre12]

Comrades,

Among the anti-capitalists, communists, socialists, and anarchists that I know in real life, there are none that identity as existential Marxists. I know a good number that are familiar with both existentialism and Marxism, but none that consciously subscribe to both at the same time.

As my name and former posts imply, I am an avid fan of Jean-Paul Sartre - one of the first self-described existentialists in France around the time of WW2. His politicalization of existentialism is part of what lead me to start shifting my reading from purely philosophy to that of political theory.

Are there any other existential Marxists / Sartrean Marxists around nowadays other than myself, or has it, like existentialism, faded from popularity amongst those of us on the Left? If it has, why is that, and why do so many on the Left scorn existentialism?

[Yuppie Grinder]

I'm working my way through the works of Sartre right now. I'm particularly interested in his ideas of bad and good faith. As for his politics, from what I've heard about them I don't really care for them.

[JPSartre12]

Sartre's concept of good and bad faith are brilliant. I'm sure that you'll enjoy them as you learn more :lol:

What is it about Sartre's politics that has disinterested you in them?

[The Jay]

I've read a bit on Existentialism and I agree with it's admission of subjective moralities that can be formed into intersubjective systems. I do find it a little redundant to study it too much since the basics seem fairly simple. I don't really get why Dostoyevsky was viewed as such a great existentialist thinker. His books were good but not among the best I've read.

[JPSartre12]

I don't really get why Dostoyevsky was viewed as such a great existentialist thinker

I agree with you. Dostoyevsky's a decent writer, but I wouldn't consider him to be a "great" existentialist thinker. He more or less set the philosophical foundation on which Heidegger, Sartre, Nietzsche, etc would build off of and create existentialism as we know it.
He's less a father of existentialism and more of a "grandfather" of it, if you get my gist.

[L.A.P.]

There are plenty of Marxist thinkers out there who have been influenced by Sartre, even more that have been influenced by Nietzsche and Kierkegaard. Existentialism and phenomenology faded as structuralism became popular, even though existentialists were still an influence on structuralists and post-structuralists. And I don't know of any Leftists who scorn existentialism, just the ones who think philosophy sucks and Marxism is some "hard" science equivalent to physics or something.

[JPSartre12]

And I don't know of any Leftists who scorn existentialism, just the ones who think philosophy sucks and Marxism is some "hard" science equivalent to physics or something.

I hear this quite often - that, because existentialism is a relativist and subjectivist philosophy, it is somehow "less" than the materialist and objectivist (I mean the opposite of subjectivism, not the objective of that nutcase Ayn Rand, omg) outlook of Marxism.

I disagree with that, however. I think that existentialism supplements Marxism nicely. A friend of mine once commented on Sartrean Marxism by saying that "Marx's economic determinism sets the stage in which you live, existentialism lets you write the lines for the play that is your life on the stage" (I'm paraphrasing, I doubt I have his quote exact).

[Yuppie Grinder]

Sartre's concept of good and bad faith are brilliant. I'm sure that you'll enjoy them as you learn more :lol:

What is it about Sartre's politics that has disinterested you in them?

He went from being a Stalinist to a wishy-washy anti-Marxist sort.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I heard in a video about Sartre's politics.

[cb9's_unity]

I actually read the beginning of his Search for a Method today. For me existentialism fills in a lot of the gaps where Marxism isn't particularly interested. So far in my readings of Marx I haven't found him trying too hard to build an ethical or ontological system, which is completely fine considering all of the other ground breaking work he did. Existentialism takes on those categories in a way that stresses freedom while denying bourgeois morality. Existentialism also offers psychological insights that, to my knowledge, are almost entirely absent in Marx (with the possible exception of alienation). The two can easily compliment each other, and I think the left would do well to take existentialism seriously.

Personally, existentialism has given me the tools to deal with my life in the immediate present while Marxism gives me orientations into the past and future.

[¿Que?]

I always thought that the idea that existence precedes essence was concordant with the notion that social being determines social consciousness, but really I have no idea.

[Tim Finnegan]

I'm interested in existentialism, although I've read Sartre only in passing extracts. Mostly I've been interest in Merleau-Ponty, whose attempts to develop an authentically materialist account of conciousness are I think very interesting and very under-acknowledged. (His work has a respectable standing in sociology, gender studies, and philosophy of cognitive science, but it's never received the same breadth of interest as Sartre or Camus, although in my opinion it is by far the most interesting.)


I always thought that the idea that existence precedes essence was concordant with the notion that social being determines social consciousness, but really I have no idea.
Nah, you're spot on there. The trick is developing a sufficiently nuanced understanding of class, by which I basically mean rejecting the Orthodox model of class, which is despite its much-touted materialism basically essentialist; two monolithic class-objects relating to each other only externally and defining the conciousness of their members in a direct and mechanical fashion. If you take a different approach, looking at stuff like Thompson, labour process theory, compositionism, etc. that understands class as a process rather than a thing, the intersections with existence-precedes-essence are obvious and potentially very fruitful.

[Hit The North]

He went from being a Stalinist to a wishy-washy anti-Marxist sort.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I heard in a video about Sartre's politics.

Sartre's The Critique of Dialectical Reason, his major attempt to fuse existentialism with Marxism is entirely anti-Stalinist which he perceives to offer a dead, mechanical version of the dialectic. I think his first public political stance was to support the Algerian revolution. He was also a fan of Castro, Che and the Black Panthers.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Castro, Che, and the Black Panthers, all Stalinists and national liberationists.

[JPSartre12]

He went from being a Stalinist to a wishy-washy anti-Marxist sort.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I heard in a video about Sartre's politics.

I wouldn't say that Sartre was a Stalinist in any way, shape, or form. He was vehemently opposed to any sort of authoritarian or top-down rule. He was somewhat involved with the French Communist Party during the WW2 era, but he didn't really make much of a serious commitment to it. Politics was a side hobby for him, and philosophy (existentialism, phenomenology, and others) where his main interests.

Yeah, he was a little wishy-washy at first, a sort of vaguely progressive or reformist socialist. What he didn't like about capitalism is that he saw so many of its traits (profit motive, surplus-value, economic incentives, greed, etc) being determinist factors - and he wanted to get rid of any form of material or economic determinism so that people could be free to develop on their own, rather than have materials, production, economics, etc define them.

He moved farther and farther Left throughout his life. He went from being a reformist to a revolutionary, and even got involved with a couple revolutionary Maoist groups. His big political obsession was the idea of the permanent revolution, because he saw this period of continual upheaval and change to be an epoch in which people would be confronted with choices and alternatives, and how they decided those choices would constitute who they are and define them.

That's what I love about Sartre, is that it's a philosophy of action, choice, and responsibility.

If you're interested, check this little video out :laugh:

http://sciencestage.com/v/294/jean-paul-sartre-existentialism-marxism-situationism-may-1968-communism-anarchism-freedom-politics.html

[JPSartre12]

Sartre's The Critique of Dialectical Reason, his major attempt to fuse existentialism with Marxism is entirely anti-Stalinist which he perceives to offer a dead, mechanical version of the dialectic. I think his first public political stance was to support the Algerian revolution. He was also a fan of Castro, Che and the Black Panthers.

Yes :laugh:
When Sartre met with Che, he called him "the most perfect human being that I have ever met" ... or something along those lines. I'm calling the quote up from memory :p

[Yuppie Grinder]

That's cute that he thought that about Che. The idea of a perfect human being isn't exactly Marxist. I hate it when people hold up Che to be a messianic figure.

[JPSartre12]

That's cute that he thought that about Che. The idea of a perfect human being isn't exactly Marxist. I hate it when people hold up Che to be a messianic figure.


Haha I agree ... seems to be a problem that we find a bit too often :rolleyes:

[Yuppie Grinder]

"To shoot down a European is to kill two birds with one stone, to destroy an oppressor and the man he oppresses at the same time: there remains a dead man and a free man.” - Sartre
What a fucking stupid thing to say, for real.

[Book O'Dead]

Comrades,

Among the anti-capitalists, communists, socialists, and anarchists that I know in real life, there are none that identity as existential Marxists. I know a good number that are familiar with both existentialism and Marxism, but none that consciously subscribe to both at the same time.

As my name and former posts imply, I am an avid fan of Jean-Paul Sartre - one of the first self-described existentialists in France around the time of WW2. His politicalization of existentialism is part of what lead me to start shifting my reading from purely philosophy to that of political theory.

Are there any other existential Marxists / Sartrean Marxists around nowadays other than myself, or has it, like existentialism, faded from popularity amongst those of us on the Left? If it has, why is that, and why do so many on the Left scorn existentialism?

Do the names Regis Debray or Frantz Fannon ring a bell? If not, read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regis_Debray

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Fannon

[Revolution starts with U]

I'm interested in existentialism, although I've read Sartre only in passing extracts. Mostly I've been interest in Merleau-Ponty, whose attempts to develop an authentically materialist account of conciousness are I think very interesting and very under-acknowledged. (His work has a respectable standing in sociology, gender studies, and philosophy of cognitive science, but it's never received the same breadth of interest as Sartre or Camus, although in my opinion it is by far the most interesting.)


Nah, you're spot on there. The trick is developing a sufficiently nuanced understanding of class, by which I basically mean rejecting the Orthodox model of class, which is despite its much-touted materialism basically essentialist; two monolithic class-objects relating to each other only externally and defining the conciousness of their members in a direct and mechanical fashion. If you take a different approach, looking at stuff like Thompson, labour process theory, compositionism, etc. that understands class as a process rather than a thing, the intersections with existence-precedes-essence are obvious and potentially very fruitful.

Ya like that "Revolution starts with you" thing :tt1: