Steelworkers strike broke up after cops' interference

[Kornilios Sunshine]

The Cops in Greece broke up today as of 20 July the nine month strike of the Greek Steelworkers. 9 workers were prosecuted by the riot cops who had beofre intervened to open the Steel factory in Aspropyrgos but they met resistance by the strikers. News reports said Prime Minister Antonis Samaras had ordered the police operation even though talks between the labour minister, the factory owners and the strikers in a bid to break the impasse were ongoing since last week. SYRIZA and PAME (KKE) said they would back a protest that the striking unionists planned to hold later in the day. The factory now is open and the manager said that there would be no mass layoffs of workers.

[A Marxist Historian]

The Cops in Greece broke up today as of 20 July the nine month strike of the Greek Steelworkers. 9 workers were prosecuted by the riot cops who had beofre intervened to open the Steel factory in Aspropyrgos but they met resistance by the strikers. News reports said Prime Minister Antonis Samaras had ordered the police operation even though talks between the labour minister, the factory owners and the strikers in a bid to break the impasse were ongoing since last week. SYRIZA and PAME (KKE) said they would back a protest that the striking unionists planned to hold later in the day. The factory now is open and the manager said that there would be no mass layoffs of workers.

This is very bad news! Let us hope PAME and SYRIZA conduct a serious mass mobilization and close the factory down again.

I am posting here again the link for the report on the strike from the Greek Spartacists, including the information on how to send the strikers money, which is now more necessary than ever.

http://www.spartacist.org/english/wv/1005/greek-steel.html

-M.H.-

[Book O'Dead]

This is very bad news! Let us hope PAME and SYRIZA conduct a serious mass mobilization and close the factory down again.

I am posting here again the link for the report on the strike from the Greek Spartacists, including the information on how to send the strikers money, which is now more necessary than ever.

http://www.spartacist.org/english/wv/1005/greek-steel.html

-M.H.-

I don't understand why the striking workers should want to "close the factory down", assuming that's in fact what they intend to do?

What useful purpose does it serve?

[A Marxist Historian]

I don't understand why the striking workers should want to "close the factory down", assuming that's in fact what they intend to do?

What useful purpose does it serve?

They had the factory closed for 200 days through their strike action, and now the government is reopening it by force.

What purpose does it serve? Because while the factory is closed, it isn't producing any steel, and the owner is losing money, pressuring him to settle with the workers.

This is extremely elementary basic trade unionism. Do you have any conception of the class struggle at all? Do you even know what a strike is?

-M.H.-

[Book O'Dead]

They had the factory closed for 200 days through their strike action, and now the government is reopening it by force.

What purpose does it serve? Because while the factory is closed, it isn't producing any steel, and the owner is losing money, pressuring him to settle with the workers.

This is extremely elementary basic trade unionism. Do you have any conception of the class struggle at all? Do you even know what a strike is?

-M.H.-

In fact, I have participated in three labor strikes in my life, the first one when I was barely 21 yrs. old.

I was a structural steel worker for over 25 years and was a member of a pro-capitalist union for at least twelve of those years:

http://www.ironworkers.org/


Also, I've read the pamphlet titled "What Means This Strike?" which explains the fundamental origins of labor strikes in a class-divided society.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/deleon/works/1898/980211.htm

Also, I have read other literature related to the history of unionism, beginning with, I guess, Chartism.

I have read or studied much of Karl Marx's writings on the subject and have learned considerably from the principles of the Marxian Law of value and about the class struggle as a social phenomenon and as an ideological principle. As well I have read or studied many other socialist writers and thinkers on a variety of subjects related to the class struggle in capitalism.

So I guess the answer to both of your questions is "yes".

What i find a bit confusing and somewhat disturbing is the strategy of shutting down a plant when what is required for a confrontation of that magnitude is a different philosophy, a different attitude towards capitalist-owned property.

By that I mean that if you're going to start a fight with a capitalist it must be over the ownership and control of the place, not about trying to cripple him economically while leaving his property rights unchallenged.

Get my drift?

[Conscript]

How can workers challenge his property rights if the only distribution system is the market? They can seize the factory and produce steel, then what? Make a co-op?

[The Jay]

They aren't fighting a revolution at the moment so fighting for better working conditions, wages, hours, and benefits is a great thing for them to do. Closing down the factory is one of the best ways to pressure the owner to give them what they want. Even though they're not working for revolution we should still support them in their efforts to improve their lives. A stronger workers' movement is a good thing and a victory would help it grow.

[Book O'Dead]

How can workers challenge his property rights if the only distribution system is the market? They can seize the factory and produce steel, then what? Make a co-op?

Sure. That or any other number of choices before them. A revolution is a road in which any number of possibilities open up in front of you.

For example, once they seize control of the factory and as they start to operate the plant, they can call out to other workers in other industries to do the same as well as come to their aid.

They can begin to establish within their plant an organizational structure that guarantees to all of the workers there equal voice and vote in all matters of the business.

They can link up with other revolutionaries in their community that can help to create the necessary political space in which to plead their case before the rest of the working class.

The possibilities are so numerous as to seem endless.

[Book O'Dead]

They aren't fighting a revolution at the moment so fighting for better working conditions, wages, hours, and benefits is a great thing for them to do. Closing down the factory is one of the best ways to pressure the owner to give them what they want. Even though they're not working for revolution we should still support them in their efforts to improve their lives. A stronger workers' movement is a good thing and a victory would help it grow.

I know what you're saying but the time to fight merely for a decent wage and better working conditions within capitalism is over.

We must avail ourselves of every opportunity to take the fight to a higher, revolutionary level.

Don't you agree?

[A Marxist Historian]

In fact, I have participated in three labor strikes in my life, the first one when I was barely 21 yrs. old.

I was a structural steel worker for over 25 years and was a member of a pro-capitalist union for at least twelve of those years:

http://www.ironworkers.org/


Also, I've read the pamphlet titled "What Means This Strike?" which explains the fundamental origins of labor strikes in a class-divided society.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/deleon/works/1898/980211.htm

Also, I have read other literature related to the history of unionism, beginning with, I guess, Chartism.

I have read or studied much of Karl Marx's writings on the subject and have learned considerably from the principles of the Marxian Law of value and about the class struggle as a social phenomenon and as an ideological principle. As well I have read or studied many other socialist writers and thinkers on a variety of subjects related to the class struggle in capitalism.

So I guess the answer to both of your questions is "yes".

What i find a bit confusing and somewhat disturbing is the strategy of shutting down a plant when what is required for a confrontation of that magnitude is a different philosophy, a different attitude towards capitalist-owned property.

By that I mean that if you're going to start a fight with a capitalist it must be over the ownership and control of the place, not about trying to cripple him economically while leaving his property rights unchallenged.

Get my drift?

YOu have drifted away from plain ordinary class struggle, which once you participated in, to the barren shores of DeLeonite sectarianism and, at best, dual unionism. But De Leon at least always understood that not every confrontation with the bosses automatically is over ownership of the factory. Thus, De Leon's "Socialist Industrial Union" led strikes, even though it was ultimately a self-defeating and sectarian enterprise. Like the strike of the Paterson silk workers for example.

Frankly, better study by you of what De Leon had to say about strikes would be the beginning of wisdom.

Yes, it would be great if the steelworkers there were able to seize the factory and set the bosses running, but that may well not be practical in their immediate situation, and perhaps they know more about their situation than you do.

Greece is not quite yet in a revolutionary situation. As is proven by how many votes the SYRIZA reformists got--and that they lost to the ND for that matter.

-M.H.-

[Book O'Dead]

[...]

Frankly, better study by you of what De Leon had to say about strikes would be the beginning of wisdom.

And which particular article or pamphlet by De Leon do you recommend?
Maybe I already read it.


Yes, it would be great if the steelworkers there were able to seize the factory and set the bosses running, but that may well not be practical in their immediate situation, and perhaps they know more about their situation than you do.That is true.

However, I do know, if the statement of the OP is correct, that a sit-down strike and factory occupation has taken place there and that that is, by its very nature, a classical confrontation; a graphic and very real manifestation of the class struggle.

Also, I know that it is the duty of any revolutionary involved in that occupation to help their fellow workers realize that every new demand they make against capitalism and the capitalist class must be greater than the one before, culminating with his (the capitalist's) dispossession.


Greece is not quite yet in a revolutionary situation. As is proven by how many votes the SYRIZA reformists got--and that they lost to the ND for that matter.If the current reports about Greece's situation are to be believed, Athens is on the verge of widespread revolts, as in the example provided in this thread.

[A Marxist Historian]

And which particular article or pamphlet by De Leon do you recommend?
Maybe I already read it.

That is true.

However, I do know, if the statement of the OP is correct, that a sit-down strike and factory occupation has taken place there and that that is, by its very nature, a classical confrontation; a graphic and very real manifestation of the class struggle.

Also, I know that it is the duty of any revolutionary involved in that occupation to help their fellow workers realize that every new demand they make against capitalism and the capitalist class must be greater than the one before, culminating with his (the capitalist's) dispossession.

If the current reports about Greece's situation are to be believed, Athens is on the verge of widespread revolts, as in the example provided in this thread.

The factory was not occupied. Of course, if it had been, then that would be different. The workers had shut it down, the government just reopened it, which is why shutting it down again is the immediate task of the hour, what the workers right now want and are up for.

As explained in the eyewitness report I posted, which obviously you have not read, and nor have you read any other accounts of the steelworkers struggle before spouting off, the workers shut down the plant for 200 days through a strike, not an occupation. You should at least get acquainted with the facts before making recommendations about what the workers should do.

Is Athens on the verge of widespread revolts? Perhaps, we'll have to wait and see. I suspect that SYRIZA has succeeded in partially chloroforming workers' struggles for the moment, as the current government is liable to collapse at any moment and SYRIZA is promising the voters that you just have to wait till they take over.

As for De Leon, I haven't studied his writings, but I do know quite a bit about labor history when De Leon was alive, and I'm pretty familiar with what his "Socialist Industrial Union" did do and didn't do. As De Leon, whatever else you have to say about him, was an honest and honorable revolutionary, if misguided in some ways, I have to assume that what he wrote was congruent with what the movement he led actually did.

A lot of his writings are up on MIA, I do believe.

-M.H.-

[Book O'Dead]

[...]
As for De Leon, I haven't studied his writings, but I do know quite a bit about labor history when De Leon was alive, and I'm pretty familiar with what his "Socialist Industrial Union" did do and didn't do. As De Leon, whatever else you have to say about him, was an honest and honorable revolutionary, if misguided in some ways, I have to assume that what he wrote was congruent with what the movement he led actually did.

A lot of his writings are up on MIA, I do believe.

-M.H.-

For someone who presumes to call himself "Marxist Historian" you seem a tad uninformed about De Leon. You should change it to "un-Marxist Historian".

I suppose you've made up your mind about Daniel De Leon based solely on what other people write about him. This is not unusual. I've seen it before. Many times.

There is no real substitute for first-hand information, especially when it's right there, under your uncurious nose.

[The Jay]

I know what you're saying but the time to fight merely for a decent wage and better working conditions within capitalism is over.

We must avail ourselves of every opportunity to take the fight to a higher, revolutionary level.

Don't you agree?


Yes, but that's as useful as saying, "I support revolution." Such statements are obvious and for them to mean anything there needs to be solid practical recommendations. If you think that they should storm the factory and claim ownership that would be a much more practical suggestion, though the police would probably arrest them all. Just saying what they should do in terms of something abstract like that is not very helpful, and you aren't them. They may not even want revolution, but they certainly want better lives. More information is required for us to make our irrelevant plans and suggestions for what some workers in Greece should do to liberate themselves - plans they will never read.

[A Marxist Historian]

For someone who presumes to call himself "Marxist Historian" you seem a tad uninformed about De Leon. You should change it to "un-Marxist Historian".

I suppose you've made up your mind about Daniel De Leon based solely on what other people write about him. This is not unusual. I've seen it before. Many times.

There is no real substitute for first-hand information, especially when it's right there, under your uncurious nose.

I have read one or two pieces by De Leon, he did have some interesting things to say as I recall, but you can't read everything by everyone, and there is no particular reason why this long-dead and pretty obscure thinker, who left little or no political legacy behind him, should be studied more than anyone else.

The true test of De Leon's ideas is what his Socialist Labor Party and its trade union did, not what De Leon had to say. That I am extremely familiar with. American labor history is one of my main concerns, I know quite a bit about the SLP's actual role in actual American class struggle, which I suspect you know little about.

If you think De Leon was an advocate of factory occupations, you are absolutely wrong. The tactic had not even been invented yet in his lifetime. He advocated industrial unionism and standard strike methods, but believed that workers should strike not only at the factories, but at the ballot box, by voting the SLP ticket.

He was ultimately more than a bit of a parliamentarian cretinist, which is why the IWW, quite rightly, ran him and his followers out of the organization in 1907 I think it was. They were a hindrance that had to be eliminated before the IWW could lead its famous heroic strikes as in Lawrence.

-M.H.-