Feminist Zionism: For or Against?

[Vorchev]

One of the lesser told stories among progressive history is how first wave feminists grounded Zionism by helping Catholic immigrants assimilate into America. Many people are familiar with Jewish feminist efforts because they were very helpful in providing education, health care, and social work, but people ignore putting two and two together.

What people ignore is how America shortly thereafter entered WW1, and it was because of WW1 that Israel's self-determination was born through the Balfour Declaration. The Triple Entente was on the ropes to the German Empire in the Western Front, and with Russia's defeat, the Eastern Front was arriving to reinforce.

If it wasn't for America's entry, the Entente would have lost the war, and the Balfour Declaration which promised a Jewish Homeland carved out of the Ottoman Empire would not have been fulfilled. By helping Catholic immigrants, America had the manpower needed, and Jews built up political capital to influence Wilson's foreign policy which included advocating ethnonationalist self-determination.

As socialists, what should our position be on this?

[RRRevolution]

Feminist zionism?

I have the same attitude towards that that I have towards Laura Bush's war-mongering feminism.

[Vorchev]

Feminist zionism?

I have the same attitude towards that that I have towards Laura Bush's war-mongering feminism.

Laura Bush is a feminist?

[Yuppie Grinder]

We should be distrusting of the bourgeois elements within feminism and against ethnonationalism.

[RRRevolution]

Laura Bush is a feminist?She played the role of one in expressing public outrage at the Talibans treatment of the women of Afghanistan in order to give a feminist element to the war effort.

[magicme]

We should be distrusting of the bourgeois elements within feminism and against ethnonationalism.

This. But as someone who's interested in history I think it's important not to talk bunkum about what happened in the past. Like

One of the lesser told stories among progressive history is how first wave feminists grounded Zionism by helping Catholic immigrants assimilate into America. Many people are familiar with Jewish feminist efforts because they were very helpful in providing education, health care, and social work, but people ignore putting two and two together.

People haven't put two and two together and come to the conclusion that feminist Zionists helping Catholic immigrants coming to America was part of a long-term conspiracy to institute the state of Israel. Why would they? Just because a Zionist buys a loaf of bread doesn't mean that the Zionist buying bread is part of a Zionist plot.

What people ignore is how America shortly thereafter entered WW1, and it was because of WW1 that Israel's self-determination was born through the Balfour Declaration. The Triple Entente was on the ropes to the German Empire in the Western Front, and with Russia's defeat, the Eastern Front was arriving to reinforce.

Why do you think Germany would've been able to achieve something in 1917 that they couldn't in 1914? Were they going to move the navy they didn't have that hadn't been fighting the Russians to break the blockade (why Germany lost the war)?

If it wasn't for America's entry, the Entente would have lost the war, and the Balfour Declaration which promised a Jewish Homeland carved out of the Ottoman Empire would not have been fulfilled. By helping Catholic immigrants, America had the manpower needed, and Jews built up political capital to influence Wilson's foreign policy which included advocating ethnonationalist self-determination.

Goodness me. Although it is true that if the Entente had lost WW1 the world would look very different why should we start there? If Russia had won the Crimean War the Ottoman Empire probs would've collapsed earlier. Where is your evidence that by helping Catholic immigrants these feminist Zionists provided the manpower needed for America to win the war? Could America's success in WW1 not be attributed to other factors such as its industrial strength, its wealth of resources, access to world produce and large population?

To argue that America winning the war (leaving aside the problematic view that you hold about the Entente being broken when it was still somehow managing to more or less hold the trenchline and blockading Germany, in short doing what was needed to win) was because of the extra manpower provided by the ministrations of these zionist feminists one would have to be able to show how much manpower was raised in this way, what proportion of the American military strength depended on it. As you haven't done this for anyone who's read a little on the subject (I hate to think what a university academic historian would make of it) there's a big danger that your view sounds like a counter-factual tapestry of impressions and ideas that have no grounding in the reality of either how world war I was won or how the state of Israel was set up.

Also, please explain why it was that if the American victory in WW1 meant that Zionism had won the day there was no state of Israel until after WW2. It's a really poor Zionist plot that commits America to a war (through aiding Catholic immigrants) in order to institute Israel and then after America wins that war they end up giving Palestine to Britain. Did something go wrong, did the elders or whoever mess that one up?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

One of the lesser told stories among progressive history is how first wave feminists grounded Zionism by helping Catholic immigrants assimilate into America. Many people are familiar with Jewish feminist efforts because they were very helpful in providing education, health care, and social work, but people ignore putting two and two together.

What people ignore is how America shortly thereafter entered WW1, and it was because of WW1 that Israel's self-determination was born through the Balfour Declaration. The Triple Entente was on the ropes to the German Empire in the Western Front, and with Russia's defeat, the Eastern Front was arriving to reinforce.

If it wasn't for America's entry, the Entente would have lost the war, and the Balfour Declaration which promised a Jewish Homeland carved out of the Ottoman Empire would not have been fulfilled. By helping Catholic immigrants, America had the manpower needed, and Jews built up political capital to influence Wilson's foreign policy which included advocating ethnonationalist self-determination.

As socialists, what should our position be on this?

This does sound like a bit of a stretch. Jewish feminist women, who were not necessarily Zionists, but probably were largely socialists, working as social workers helping immigrants from Catholic countries-Poland, Italy, Ireland and Germany, helped provide the manpower which helped the US enable the Entente to win WWI which then enabled the establishment of the state of Israel.

There was intense anti-Semitism in the 1920s so I'm not sure about whatever political capital had been built up by this time.

Sorry but I don't really get the connections.

[bcbm]

i don't think their is a need to have a 'position' on this

[Dean]

From the title, I expected a political tendency that incorporated Zionist rhetoric with Feminist rhetoric.

Instead, its some bizarre kind of historicism seeking to link Jewish social workers to the formation of the state of Israel.

I am not even sure where the feminism is here. This sounds like fascist trolling tbh.

[Ocean Seal]

The inverse is anti-imperialist sexism and they're both bad so no we don't compromise on where we stand, we don't meet the capitalists half way.

[homegrown terror]

zionism, like any form of national or ethnic supremacist thinking, is always a dangerous wrong in the world. cloaking it in "feminism" is just a thinly veiled attempt to make a bigot out of anyone who doesn't support it.

[¿Que?]

I'm not familiar with this particular historical situation. I would argue, though, that if Zionist feminists helping Catholics contributed to the US's war effort, and subsequently to the creation of the state of Israel, something I believe the OP has not really successfully argued, but assuming they had successfully argued this point, it still does not prove a Zionist conspiracy, or more to the point I think of what the OP is trying to say, that the way things played out was the predominant motivation for helping those immigrants. A more likely explanation is that if indeed Zionist feminist help of Catholics influenced geopolitics to the effect of eventually establishing Israel, something which occurred over 30 years after the events in question, it was a byproduct or unintended consequence, not really the result of a coordinated strategy or vast conspiracy.

[Rottenfruit]

One of the lesser told stories among progressive history is how first wave feminists grounded Zionism by helping Catholic immigrants assimilate into America. Many people are familiar with Jewish feminist efforts because they were very helpful in providing education, health care, and social work, but people ignore putting two and two together.

What people ignore is how America shortly thereafter entered WW1, and it was because of WW1 that Israel's self-determination was born through the Balfour Declaration. The Triple Entente was on the ropes to the German Empire in the Western Front, and with Russia's defeat, the Eastern Front was arriving to reinforce.

If it wasn't for America's entry, the Entente would have lost the war, and the Balfour Declaration which promised a Jewish Homeland carved out of the Ottoman Empire would not have been fulfilled. By helping Catholic immigrants, America had the manpower needed, and Jews built up political capital to influence Wilson's foreign policy which included advocating ethnonationalist self-determination.

As socialists, what should our position be on this?
Remove the zionist part and then its a fine doctrine :cool: