Why can't communist become citizens, but Nazis can?

[Hexen]

Did you know that if you wanted to become a citizen, or a legal resident of the United States, you cannot be a member of a communist party. Not just a member of the Communist party of say, China (which we do a lot business with ironically) but even a communist party member here in the U.S.

Now, while it mentions communist parties, it does not mention the Nazi party, or other fascist parties. It does though mention a ban on those belonging to a "totalitarian party" but that is open to the interpetation of a government official. Also those who "write or publish subversive material" are prohibited. But, who determines what is subversive? Is subversive just simple dissent, if not, when does dissent become subversive?

Paul Robeson, an American who was born in New Jersey, was banned from traveling outside of the United States, for his advocacy of civil rights for African Americans, in the early 1950s. Indeed, he was told by the government, that "his frequent criticism of the treatment of blacks in the United States should not be aired in foreign countries—it was a `family affair." It didn't probably help Mr. Robeson that he was an advocate of communism.

This is hard to believe. In fact, I didn't know about this fact until I started doing basic research on this story. At one time, until a Supreme Court ruling in 1964, it was legal for our government to ban the movement of citizens to other nations because the government didn't like their speech. How is this any different than a giant Berlin Wall that forced East Germans and East Berliners to stay on one side of a wall? Well, it isn't.

I don't advocate communism, I am on the left, but definately not that far on the left. But, communists, like Nazis and every other group, have the right to advocate their beliefs. Including advocating them overseas. That not only people were banned because of communist beliefs but also because of their advocacy for civil rights, is downright amazing, let alone Orwellian.

Oh by the way, these anti-communists/anti-constitutional acts allowed for things such as arrests of those who protest outside courthouses, in trying to influence a jury. Jury nullification is acting on the fact that we have a right to not convict under unjust laws, in particular drug laws. That right predates even our nation, under common law.

If not for the courts, in particular the Supreme Court, we still might be barring not only communists but socialists or even Green party members, from leaving the U.S. Other rights, would be in a shamble. So whoever says the courts have too much power, is not someone whose own personal liberty is threatened. At least, for now.

Source: http://www.examiner.com/article/why-can-t-communist-become-citizens-but-nazis-can

[Zav]

It's simple, really. The U.S. is Capitalist and so are Nazis. Communists oppose Capitalism and are thus enemies of the U.S. It's a relic of the Cold War.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

The Nazis never constituted a real threat to state power here in the US.

[bcbm]

This is hard to believe.

not really

[Commiekirby]

It's very simple really, Communism doesn't make money and threatens the elite that control the United States while National Socialists tend to lean with the Conservatives and back Republican Policy.

Though soon I think that will change with some new policies adapted by the American Nazi Party including Environmentalism. Something that can easily prevent profit.

[Comrade Samuel]

I imagine alot of people would share your shock, that is if anybody gave a shit about "political freedom" or anything else promised in our constitution.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Obvious loophole-become a citizen and THEN become a Communist! It's much harder to revoke citizenship than to prevent someone from getting it in the first place, and I don't think being a CP member is grounds for revoking citizenship after the fact anyways.

[bcbm]

Communism . . .threatens the elite that control the United States

if only

[Commiekirby]

if only

I guess a ton of people sitting around a table and talking about Walt Whitman isn't too threatening, is it?

[Hexen]

I imagine alot of people would share your shock, that is if anybody gave a shit about "political freedom" or anything else promised in our constitution.

Also most people don't realize that the constitution (including other documents like the Bill of Rights, etc) was actually written for the bourgeoisie not for the working and lower classes if they only read that small little print on the trickster's contract. Thus it clears up the reason why the lower classes/workers are oppressed in the U.S. as if they never had any rights all along.

Also "Political Freedom" is a subjective term which within the U.S. context it's actually talking about bourgeois parties.

[Comrade Samuel]

Also most people don't realize that the constitution (including other documents like the Bill of Rights, etc) was actually written for the bourgeoisie not for the working and lower classes if they only read that small little print on the trickster's contract. Thus it clears up the reason why the lower classes/workers are oppressed in the U.S. as if they never had any rights all along.

Also "Political Freedom" is a subjective term which within the U.S. context it's actually talking about bourgeois parties.

While all of that is entirely true and most if not all of our famous historical documents that "secure everybody's freedom" were in reality how rich, white, male, land owners ensured their dominance over everybody else while keeping them hopeful about their new country by using vague rhetoric like "freedom" and "democracy" at every opertuneity. What I actualy ment to covey by that last post is my anger at most Americans; Mr.Obama could begin drone strikes on each and every one of us at any time if he felt like it and we would all be ashes before a single one of us could even begin to care. Why? Because nobody these days has even taken the time to read so much as the happy and fun abridged version of our constitution (among other documents) and realized that our "inalienable rights" are worth about as much as a 3$ bill, we are far more concerned if Kim Kardashian has scratched her ass in the last 10 minutes than we are about how this supposedly free and perfect nation operates or how we should realize it's not all that free and perfect to begin with; it's only a perfect example of how the bourgeoise can convince people that their vote matters and that they the people matter.

That was most likely an unintelligible rant riddled with sarcasm and wise ass jokes but I'm certan there's somebody out there who can sympathize.

[RedAnarchist]

The American space programme during the Cold War involved many top Nazi scientists from Germany, which probably has something to do with this.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Well it's the USA does it surprise you?

Here in Europe ok i will say Ex-Yugoslavia its pretty welcoming that you wear red stars especially here in slovenia,red stars are a symbol of rebellion against fascism. If you will come here when there is going to be some kind of celebration,that has to do something with liberation from fascism you will see many many people with red stars,and Yugoslavian flags.

But the right wingers are banning partisans from such celebrations,just now they have banned wearing red stars in such celebrations.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

A lot of Nazis (high nazis aswell) got a job in the CIA after the war.

[Jimmie Higgins]

There were a few years of anti-NAZI propaganda and mobilization by the US compared to a decades long cold war and previous red-scares and anti-immigrant waves (which generally had a fear of radicalism imbedded in the anti-immigrant sentiment... "bolshevik jews" or "Italian syndicalists" or whatnot just like today the right conflates immigrants and latino radicalism) during which all sorts of anti-red laws have been instituted.

I got a job in a public school for a while and I had to sign a thing saying that I wasn't a member of a communist group.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

We're more of a threat.

Take it as a compliment.

[RRRevolution]

It's simple, really. The U.S. is Capitalist and so are Nazis. Communists oppose Capitalism and are thus enemies of the U.S. It's a relic of the Cold War.The U.S. does not have a kind view of Nazis. Nazism, during WWII, presented a greater threat to American capitalism than communism did at the time.

I'm guessing the reason is that this law applies to members of CP's but not Nazis is that is was enacted either after WWII when Nazism had ceased to be a serious world political movement, or during the first red scare before there was conflict between Nazi Germany and the United States.

[blake 3:17]

One of the ironies is that the Communist Party was extremely supportive of the Smith Act when it was used against members of the Socialist Workers Party.

Then the Cold War started...

[Zannarchy]

because the government is full of nazis, duh

[Sankara1983]

The Nazis never constituted a real threat to state power here in the US.

The CPUSA, SWP and the rest of the left never did either.

[homegrown terror]

The Nazis never constituted a real threat to state power here in the US.

what about the german-american bund, and later friends of the new germany party? they constituted a severe political threat in the '30s.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Not really, since Nazi's still defend the interest of the bourgeoisie.

[Tim Cornelis]

I wonder with these kinds of legislation what they mean by "Communist Party". Would this include, say, the Trotskyist Workers' Struggle, or only those that are actually called Communist Party. Because it would otherwise seem difficult to define 'communist party'.

[MaximMK]

This does not surprise me at all. The biggest enemy of humanity is the USA.

[Permanent Revolutionary]

Does anyone know of a contemporary case, where someone was denied US citizenship, because she/he was a communist?

[Luís Henrique]

"Communism" was the ideology of the US' main rival in power politics from 1945 to 1991. Adhering to it was seen as anti-patriotic. Nazism has not been a foreign power ideology since 1945.

Luís Henrique

[A Marxist Historian]

Source: http://www.examiner.com/article/why-can-t-communist-become-citizens-but-nazis-can

The reason is simple, and from their POV, logical.

Citizenship, like nationhood, is ultimately a bourgeois concept derived from the great bourgeois revolutions of the modern era, like the French and the US. One of the good things that came out of them.

But Nazis and fascists support the bourgeois order, in their unpleasant fashion. Communists do not.

So, in extending citizenship rights to, first, proletarians, and then to those who advocate overturning the bourgeois order for the benefit of the proletarians, we are making a valuable extension of bourgeois rights.

One the bourgeoisie is not necessarily enthused about.

-M.H.-