1200 Trillon dollars

[milkmiku]

This is what we are up against, I know, I know, it is the capitalistic system and everything, but this is what we are up against. How do you defeat something as powerful as this? How do you awaken the people when up against this kind of power? Please explain how this can be dealt with.

Total derivatives market is 1200 trillion dollars. The total GDP of ALL nations combined is about 60
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/05/top-derivatives-expert-finally-gives-a-credible-estimate-of-the-size-of-the-global-derivatives-market.html

These are the biggest and most powerful banks, These banks are said to be "to big to fall" and will be defended by governments with violence if necessary. Likely everything major that happens and involves big money can be tied back to these banks.

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/derivatives/bank_exposure.html

How can this be beaten? I know "liberal talking points", but these are massively powerful creatures. Can they be brought down without bloodshed? Cash rules everything around me in the truest sense, and these things rule the cash. I just don't see a way. Up against that much money, that much power. It make me feel hopeless.

[Conscript]

The best weapon against capital is the simple fact labor precedes capital, and can exist without it. Capital is only powerful if the value behind is recognized, trusted. Without the means of production, they will run out of commodities and their money will be worthless pieces of paper.

[NGNM85]

This is what we are up against, I know, I know, it is the capitalistic system and everything, but this is what we are up against. How do you defeat something as powerful as this? How do you awaken the people when up against this kind of power? Please explain how this can be dealt with.

Total derivatives market is 1200 trillion dollars. The total GDP of ALL nations combined is about 60
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/05/top-derivatives-expert-finally-gives-a-credible-estimate-of-the-size-of-the-global-derivatives-market.html

These are the biggest and most powerful banks, These banks are said to be "to big to fall" and will be defended by governments with violence if necessary. Likely everything major that happens and involves big money can be tied back to these banks.

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/derivatives/bank_exposure.html

How can this be beaten? I know "liberal talking points", but these are massively powerful creatures. Can they be brought down without bloodshed? Cash rules everything around me in the truest sense, and these things rule the cash. I just don't see a way. Up against that much money, that much power. It make me feel hopeless.

It's extremely depressiung, I know. One of the top priorities, if not the absolute top priority, should be overturning Citizens' United.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

This is what we are up against, I know, I know, it is the capitalistic system and everything, but this is what we are up against. How do you defeat something as powerful as this? How do you awaken the people when up against this kind of power? Please explain how this can be dealt with.

Total derivatives market is 1200 trillion dollars. The total GDP of ALL nations combined is about 60
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/05/top-derivatives-expert-finally-gives-a-credible-estimate-of-the-size-of-the-global-derivatives-market.html

These are the biggest and most powerful banks, These banks are said to be "to big to fall" and will be defended by governments with violence if necessary. Likely everything major that happens and involves big money can be tied back to these banks.

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/derivatives/bank_exposure.html

How can this be beaten? I know "liberal talking points", but these are massively powerful creatures. Can they be brought down without bloodshed? Cash rules everything around me in the truest sense, and these things rule the cash. I just don't see a way. Up against that much money, that much power. It make me feel hopeless.

Those Trillions are just numbers on a computer screen. They're a sign at how horrible the real economy has gotten for capital to invest into, and so they have all flocked to the financial world as the Rate of Profit of the production process has fallen below 2%, below the financial transaction tax. If that money were ever put into circulation, if bankers decided to take it out of its investments and spend it al, we would have hyper hyper inflation. That's a problem with all this money moving from the ECB, FED etc. to the banks, we are risking hyper inflation if the money is taken out of its financial investments and used to pay for things in the real economy.

This is in fact a great sign of the deterioration of capitalism.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/debt-growth-and-t171928/index.html?t=171928

http://www.revleft.com/vb/failure-capitalist-production-t172018/index.html?t=172018

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

You have to understand what all these crazy sums of money of the financial sector mean: It means that the capitalists have gotten so bored with the real capitalist economy that they have been lazing and that the governments around the world have been deregulating and printing digital money for capitalists to feel secure to invest in the real economy. But the fact that they have so much money while the real global economy is in crisis and the capitalists are even paying the German state for it to hold its money (willingly making a loss!), shows how scared capitalists are of investing into the real economy as there is no more growth.

[JPSartre12]

The only way that we'll be able to win, unfortunately, is with a proletarian revolution. The bourgeois class isn't going to be afraid to use authoritarian, police-like, anti-riot tactics to keep them down, so the proletariat should recognize that the whole idea of a "non-violent" revolution is less probable than we might like. We'll probably have to fight back :ohmy:


It's extremely depressiung, I know. One of the top priorities, if not the absolute top priority, should be overturning Citizens' United.


Agreed - there are immediate things that we can do within the system right now to limit the power of the bourgeoisie. Getting rid of Citizens United, the PATRIOT Act, scaling back Defense and Homeland Security, instituting strong luxury taxes and a more "progressive" tax system, could all be immediate steps that we can take. They won't get rid of capitalism by any means, but it would help us out a little bit in the short-term.

[NGNM85]

Agreed - there are immediate things that we can do within the system right now to limit the power of the bourgeoisie. Getting rid of Citizens United, the PATRIOT Act, scaling back Defense and Homeland Security, instituting strong luxury taxes and a more "progressive" tax system, could all be immediate steps that we can take. They won't get rid of capitalism by any means, but it would help us out a little bit in the short-term.

The reason why I said Citizens United should be the top priority is because it affects everything else. Now;, all the barriers have been removed, private interests have absolutely no limit to the amount of resources they can expend. How are we going to advance gay rights? How are we going to protect the environment? The good news is that it's totally possible. If you look at the numbers, it's wildly unpopular. Harvard law professor Lawrence Lessig outlined a very clear, and detailed legal strategy for defeating it in his new book; Republic Lost. There are already campaigns in the works, like; MoveToAmend, and Wolf-PAC. So, this is totally workable. The biggest obstacle that I see is, actually, the Radical Left, itself.

[JPSartre12]

Completely agree with you comrade :)


The biggest obstacle that I see is, actually, the Radical Left, itself.

Great point. I think the hyper-sectarianism that divides us from each other needs to stop.

[NGNM85]

Completely agree with you comrade :)

Great point. I think the hyper-sectarianism that divides us from each other needs to stop.

That, and the rigid intolerance, the quasi-religious dogmatism, etc., etc.

[Book O'Dead]

The bigger they are the harder the fall.

[Lynx]

So much for the refrain "there's no money!"

[Dean]

This is what we are up against, I know, I know, it is the capitalistic system and everything, but this is what we are up against. How do you defeat something as powerful as this? How do you awaken the people when up against this kind of power? Please explain how this can be dealt with.

Total derivatives market is 1200 trillion dollars. The total GDP of ALL nations combined is about 60
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/05/top-derivatives-expert-finally-gives-a-credible-estimate-of-the-size-of-the-global-derivatives-market.html

These are the biggest and most powerful banks, These banks are said to be "to big to fall" and will be defended by governments with violence if necessary. Likely everything major that happens and involves big money can be tied back to these banks.

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/derivatives/bank_exposure.html

How can this be beaten? I know "liberal talking points", but these are massively powerful creatures. Can they be brought down without bloodshed? Cash rules everything around me in the truest sense, and these things rule the cash. I just don't see a way. Up against that much money, that much power. It make me feel hopeless.

That isn't 1,200 Trillion dollars being used against workers. It is 1,200 Tn dollars invested in bets for or against changes in various market variables.

If anything, the fact that the derivatives market has made our financial institutions so leveraged is a danger to the financial capitalists themselves. Finance capital is de-emphasizing production and quite frankly making itself obsolete in this way.

What we will see (and this has been the case for decades) is that the nations, firms and regions heavily invested in production capital will ultimately be better off, while nations which emphasize finance will see their power slip away. There will be a scramble, like there was in the early 1900s, to acquire capital assets that are being given up by these short-sighted financial firms. The free market will continue to be more controlled where it counts, and where people are able to make their demands a part of the national narrative, it will serve them more. In other areas, like what we see currently in the US (though it may change) the fascist economy will be emphasized. The free market will continue to die, and where the derivatives market hurts those in power, the financiers will be in hot water - those that don't escape, that is.

[Rafiq]

Why are you so intimidated by 1,200 trilion dollars, when money itself simply represents something... Larger?

[Sea]

This $1200 trillion can't buy actual things on a grand scale without inflation coming in and making the big numbers moot. What all this money can be used to do, however, is to shuffle it around with other money.

If I had a nickle for every time I had to bring out the coats and linen and bible (though the brandy seems to have disappeared...), I'd have 1200 trillion dollars.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

That isn't 1,200 Trillion dollars being used against workers. It is 1,200 Tn dollars invested in bets for or against changes in various market variables.

If anything, the fact that the derivatives market has made our financial institutions so leveraged is a danger to the financial capitalists themselves. Finance capital is de-emphasizing production and quite frankly making itself obsolete in this way.

What we will see (and this has been the case for decades) is that the nations, firms and regions heavily invested in production capital will ultimately be better off, while nations which emphasize finance will see their power slip away. There will be a scramble, like there was in the early 1900s, to acquire capital assets that are being given up by these short-sighted financial firms. The free market will continue to be more controlled where it counts, and where people are able to make their demands a part of the national narrative, it will serve them more. In other areas, like what we see currently in the US (though it may change) the fascist economy will be emphasized. The free market will continue to die, and where the derivatives market hurts those in power, the financiers will be in hot water - those that don't escape, that is.

How much of this situation would you say has been influenced by the post-war boom? It seems to me like that provided enough economic "inertia" (if that makes sense) for the contradictions to be papered over until now-ish. I also wonder how much the Cold War contributed.

[Dean]

How much of this situation would you say has been influenced by the post-war boom? It seems to me like that provided enough economic "inertia" (if that makes sense) for the contradictions to be papered over until now-ish. I also wonder how much the Cold War contributed.

The derivatives market really exploded in the 80s, and I think good market conditions in the early 90s helped it along. But this should all be seen in the context of the postwar boom that started winding down in the 70s, when lower wages were replaced with credit products. In fact, the boom in the 90s was in my view largely the result of the transfer of control over Russian (and post-soviet bloc nations') industry to Western markets. But the expanding technology industry and the overall strong government spending / profit taxing regime in the US kept the economy strong in this period, too, even while key aspects of this system were being shrugged off.

The simple fact is that the US government, and certainly the US people, have not exerted any significant control in terms of regulating the economy for their interests since Nixon. In many ways Carter's weak presidency allowed corporations to consolidate power in a way that nobody would dare try to counter in subsequent administrations.

Derivatives in many ways represent the very problem with modern finance: they really leverage funds to such an extent that small changes in stock value can have significant impact, often disproportionate to the real changes in value that the market / economy are undergoing.