Are there any Fascist Governments left?

[Fidel Castro]

Ok, I read in a different post about the few remaining "communist" governments, does anyone know of nations that could be described as fascist, I suppose Iraq was one under Saddam. Apart from this I can't think of any others off the top of my head. What constitutes a "fascist" regime, is it all just a mirror image of Nazi Germany? Or are some more subtle?

[Don't Change Your Name]

US, Iran, Pakistan and Monaco seem to have a fascist-styled rule in my oppinion, but not completely. After all it seems yanquiland has some freedoms, I'm not sure about Monaco and I dont have a lot of information about Pakistan.
Also it seems that in some european countries there's a lot of fascism, but we can say its almost dead. I see neo-fascism taking its place (neo-liberalism has some things in common in my oppinion).

[Kez]

granted Monaco is full of tossers, but i doubt its fascist.

I reckon we will see more fascist goverments in nxt 10 years, as capitalism uses it against the tide of worker unrest. Fascism is not interchangeble with Nazism.

Fascism is the last tool used by the bourgeoise to save the capitalist state and crushes workers movements

[(*]

What definition of fascism is being used?

From Merriam - Webster


often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

or

a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

[apathy maybe]

I disagree with Iran being Fascist or leaning that way. The parliament and Prez are both elected so the people are used to voting and electing people. The only problem being that above those two are the religious leaders. But in many cases they (the religious leaders) are not as bad (that is not to say that they are good) as people think.

[Edward Norton]

Here is a list of ALL post 1945 fascist/neo-fascist regimes:

*Spain 1939-1978
*Monaco 1860s-present
*Portugal 1926-1974
*Greece 1967-1974
*Turkey 1980-1989
*Cyprus 1974-1974
*Serbia 1987-2000
*Belorussia 1995-present
*Morocco 1912-present
*Eygpt 1970-present
*Tunisia 1956-present
*Jordan 1956-present
*Syria 1970-present
*Iraq 1963-2003
*Iran 1925-1979
*All Gulf states 1900s-present
*Pakistan 1956-1971/1977-1988/1999-present
*Afghanistan 1919-1978/1992-present
*Indonesia 1965-2001
*Malaysia 1981-present
*Singapore 1965-present
*Taiwan 1949-2000
*Burma 1963-present
*South Korea 1948-1993
*South Africa 1948-1994
*Kenya 1963-2003
*Uganda 1971-1979/1985-1986/1986-present
*Malawi 1964-1994
*Ziare 1965-1997
*Cen. Af. Rep. 1960-1993/2003
*Gabon 1967-present
*Ivory Coast 1960-1999/1999-2000
*Argentina 1930-1943/1944-1960/1970-1976/1976-1983
*Brazil 1964-1985
*Uraguay 1973-1985
*Chile 1953-1957/1973-1990
*Bolivia 1964-1969/1971-1980/1980-1983
*Paraguay 1936-1997
*Colombia 1953-1957/2001-present
*Peru 1975-1980/1990-2000
*Panama 1968-1990
*Nicaragua 1933-1979

This includes all governments that are:

*Authoritarian monarchies, with or without parliaments.
*Military dictatorships and juntas
*Personal regimes were a democratic politican wins the election but then assumes dictatorial powers
*One-party nationalist regimes.

[Fidel Castro]

Monaco? In what way are they fascist?

[DeadMan]

I beleive Lybia is a fascist country too since I beleive 1979.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

DeadMan.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

Ed,thats a retarted list.We are talking about places that have declared themselves fascist.I hate how some leftists throw around the word "fascist" without knowing its true meaning.Granted,some of those countries you listed were fascist,but others were quite the opposite.

[Edward Norton]

Yes cheguevara717, some of these states do not fit the 'classical' definition of fascism, as stated by either Mussolini or Hitler.

However, at the bottom of that list I stated that ALL authoritarian right-wing regimes are inlcuded, even places like Monaco (autocratic monarchy) or Greece (military junta), as well as 'classical' fascist regimes such as Peron's Argentina or Franco's Spain.

Also places like Belorussia and Serbia under Milosevic were originally 'communist' of a neo-Stalinist hue, yet Milosevic was one of those politicans who had a streak for staying in office whatever the cost, so when his popularity fell, he changed his ideology and became a genocidal ultra-nationalist with fascist sympathies. Probably explains why so many neo-Nazi groups in Britain supported him and saw him as a hero.

But I am of the opinion that 'classical' fascism 30s style, with the jackboots and roman salutes will not be coming back. Rather it is neo-fascism with it's neo-liberal economics and autocratic government (two good examples are Pinochet's Chile and the current Pakistani military junta)

However if you believe fascism in it's classical form, then no fascism is dead, but that doesn't mean right-wing authoritarianism is dead.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by El Infiltr(A)[email protected] 16 2003, 06:54 AM
US, Iran, Pakistan and Monaco seem to have a fascist-styled rule in my oppinion, but not completely. After all it seems yanquiland has some freedoms, I'm not sure about Monaco and I dont have a lot of information about Pakistan.
Also it seems that in some european countries there's a lot of fascism, but we can say its almost dead. I see neo-fascism taking its place (neo-liberalism has some things in common in my oppinion).
lol, monaco? you are a moron.

[Ortega]

A moron???

Last time I looked, Monaco was a monarchy.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 07:12 PM
A moron???

Last time I looked, Monaco was a monarchy.
youre also a retard, lol, know the definition of fascim before you write something:


often Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

I dont think US, or monaco falls under that. lol, morons

[DeadMan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 08:50 PM
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

I dont think US, or monaco falls under that. lol, morons

suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship

The middle east. They use terror to suppress there hate of the US and then CNN cencors it all to make it look like it's working.


and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism

Racism, is at a high in the US. A few of my friends went to Washington D.C. for a wedding, and they got there car search at 3 different places because they we're brown, Armanian. It was 3 men, one 17, the other 2 were 23 (all brothers), and they keeped getting stopped. And in Washington D.C. they weren't aloud to enter a bar for the simple fact that they we're brown. Well, there white friends got in and not them, which is how they came up with the racist situation. Also, in the south, the hate of Black people is still pretty high by standards of other countries. The US has a love for the WASPs (White Anglo-Saxsan Protestants).


Oppressive, dictatorial control.

This would be the exact definition of Fascism if Bush was a dictator...alas a very dumb and very redneck dictator.

DeadMan.

[Slobo Is God]

Would Saudi Arabia qualify?

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pag...p=1008596981749 (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1071634102435&p=1008596981749)


Saudi Arabia has banned the importation of female dolls and teddy bears, giving merchants three months to dispose of such stock, a state-guided newspaper reported Wednesday.

Interior Minister Prince Nayef ordered the ban which was relayed around the country by the national Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Al-Riyadh said.

The daily gave no reason for the ban, which could not be confirmed with government officials Wednesday.

The ban singled out stuffed-animal toys and dolls of brides. It made no mention of male dolls and it was not clear if these were banned as well.

The order also prohibited the importation of crucifixes and models of Buddha, the newspaper said.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by DeadMan+Dec 18 2003, 10:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DeadMan @ Dec 18 2003, 10:27 PM)
[email protected] 18 2003, 08:50 PM
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

I dont think US, or monaco falls under that. lol, morons

suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship

The middle east. They use terror to suppress there hate of the US and then CNN cencors it all to make it look like it&#39;s working.


and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism

Racism, is at a high in the US. A few of my friends went to Washington D.C. for a wedding, and they got there car search at 3 different places because they we&#39;re brown, Armanian. It was 3 men, one 17, the other 2 were 23 (all brothers), and they keeped getting stopped. And in Washington D.C. they weren&#39;t aloud to enter a bar for the simple fact that they we&#39;re brown. Well, there white friends got in and not them, which is how they came up with the racist situation. Also, in the south, the hate of Black people is still pretty high by standards of other countries. The US has a love for the WASPs (White Anglo-Saxsan Protestants).


Oppressive, dictatorial control.

This would be the exact definition of Fascism if Bush was a dictator...alas a very dumb and very redneck dictator.

DeadMan. [/b]
First of all. CNN is bashed by everyone, the right says they are pro left, the left says the lie, and everyone one else hates them, But i dont watch cnn.

They use terror to supress their own people? no, that is what the definition is talking about, I am not opressed by the military.

Rascism has always and will always exist, but you dont see politicians saying one ra e is superior , that would cause them votes, so youre are totally misunderstanding the meaning.

Bush is not a dictator.

So we can agree monaco is not a fascist country, right. Neither is the USA, you guys are retards.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

Yes cheguevara717, some of these states do not fit the &#39;classical&#39; definition of fascism, as stated by either Mussolini or Hitler.

However, at the bottom of that list I stated that ALL authoritarian right-wing regimes are inlcuded, even places like Monaco (autocratic monarchy) or Greece (military junta), as well as &#39;classical&#39; fascist regimes such as Peron&#39;s Argentina or Franco&#39;s Spain.

Also places like Belorussia and Serbia under Milosevic were originally &#39;communist&#39; of a neo-Stalinist hue, yet Milosevic was one of those politicans who had a streak for staying in office whatever the cost, so when his popularity fell, he changed his ideology and became a genocidal ultra-nationalist with fascist sympathies. Probably explains why so many neo-Nazi groups in Britain supported him and saw him as a hero.

But I am of the opinion that &#39;classical&#39; fascism 30s style, with the jackboots and roman salutes will not be coming back. Rather it is neo-fascism with it&#39;s neo-liberal economics and autocratic government (two good examples are Pinochet&#39;s Chile and the current Pakistani military junta)

However if you believe fascism in it&#39;s classical form, then no fascism is dead, but that doesn&#39;t mean right-wing authoritarianism is dead.


Some of what you say is true.I am not saying a government has to have the swastika on its flag and big brother portraits on underwear to be fascist.I just strongly disagree with you labelling some of those nations you labeld &#39;fascist&#39;.

[Slobo Is God]

How about Iran? Could Iran be considered a fascist State?

http://www.nitv.tv/albums/18_tir_1382/100_G.jpg

http://www.nitv.tv/albums/18_tir_1382/daneshgah_1_14.jpg

http://www.nitv.tv/albums/18_tir_1382/daneshjo2.jpg

[el_profe]

fascism and communism, the 2 sides of the same coin.
Tell me the difference between Hitler and Stalin, I mean the difference between how they ran their goverments. stalin also massacred jews and ukrainians and others, he also sent the minorities he didnt lie to siberia. they where both muredrers. Both of their govs controlled everyithing. How different where they?

[Edward Norton]

I am a anarcho-communist, so el-profe idiotic and cliche trick of tarnishing communism with the nazi-hitler brush don&#39;t work with me.

Yes Stalin was a dictator and yes Stalin used Russian nationalism. Yet Stalin did not make it his life mission to kill ALL jews or any other race for that matter, not like Hitler.

As for the Ukrainians, I will have to say that Stalin&#39;s suppression of them was to some extent justified (this coming from an anti-stalinist marxist), because many Ukrainians COLLABORATED with the Nazis during their occupation of Russia. Many Ukrainian men spent 4 years killing innocent jewish men/women/children, so after the war the Ukrainians (not all, just the pro-nazi) got what they deserved.

But true communism was evident in the Paris Commune and the Zapatista controlled areas of Mexico, where there are NO LEADERS and NO Armies/secret police to suppress the people.

True communism liberates the people and empowers them&#33;

Forget Stalin/Mao and all other dictators, they used communism as a way to power.

True Communism gives power to the people, so leaders need not exist.

As for el-profe calling Bush a democrat, what a fucking idiot&#33;&#33;&#33;

El-profe claims that Chavez is a dictator, (I pesonally don&#39;t think Chavez can help the Venezualan people, yet I&#39;ll support him against the coup-plotting fascists) yet Chavez WAS ELECTED and Bush LOST THE ELECTION AND STILL BECAME &#39;PRESIDENT&#39;.

El-profe, don&#39;t fucking bother with any more posts as you show yourself up to be a stupid nazi idiot who does not know any facts and ends up throwing insults at everyone when you LOSE the arguement. I am ONLY insulting you because you insulted others first and your STUPIDITY really is annoying me now&#33;

[Jesus Christ]

Monaco?
hahahaha

they have been ruled by the Gribaldi family since the 1100s, but they are hardly fascist

[RedStar*]

First of all it depends on how you describe fascism i m from turkey and maybe there is no old fashion fascism in today&#39;s world but still fascism goes on Think it as imperialism imperialism used to invase countries by their soldiers but today it has changed imperialism has changed its face it goes in as mc donald&#39;s as Coca cola as Microsoft as IMF(internationel Money Fund) fascism is the same in today&#39;s world fascims has changed its face too What im tryin to say is as soon as capitalism goes on there must be fascism cuz fascism is capitalism&#39;s gunn

[Fidel Castro]

you guys are retards


youre also a retard

So El-profe, you got a thing going against retards now? HMMMMM what a rather fascist view :P

(and I prefer the term mentaly-handicapped)

Once again you have proven yourself to be pretty much a complete moron.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 03:02 PM

you guys are retards


youre also a retard

So El-profe, you got a thing going against retards now? HMMMMM what a rather fascist view :P

(and I prefer the term mentaly-handicapped)

Once again you have proven yourself to be pretty much a complete moron.
Put all the sentence not just the part where is aid retards. I was saying you retards to anyone who tought Monaco and the USA are fascist countries. And im right by saying.

Norton:
If you think expanding gov. and expand medicare is a right-wing capitalist way of thinking then you have no idea that pro-capitalist are against the expansion of gov. and are against gov. funded and managed medicare, but thats for another discussion.

It is not sure if Bush lost the election, they organization that recounted the votes just to see who really won, found out that Bush actually did win florida, so i dont know what youre talking about.

As for using insults, you insulted me first so i dont know what youre talking about. AND YES ANYONE WHO THINKS THE USA AND MONACO are fascist is a moron.

[Raztro]

I think that slowly many western countries are becoming more fascist like by a gradual process. Making a change to a totalitarian style goverment over a fast period of time would be too noticable and people would not tolerate it. But if a goverment changes small civil process&#39;s, adds "necessary" laws, such as the patriot act, bribes and intimidates media corporations to stand behind them, and makes up "small" lies that are easy for the public to swallow, along with relying on an apathetic, afraid, and angry society for them to thrive on. Under similer circumstances hitler to control the same way the Bush&#39;s administration is using now. Believe it our not our country is in a similer state as post WW1 Germany was, angry, afraid, and looking for a scapegoat.
...

[DeadMan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 08:57 PM
I think that slowly many western countries are becoming more fascist like by a gradual process. Making a change to a totalitarian style goverment over a fast period of time would be too noticable and people would not tolerate it. But if a goverment changes small civil process&#39;s, adds "necessary" laws, such as the patriot act, bribes and intimidates media corporations to stand behind them, and makes up "small" lies that are easy for the public to swallow, along with relying on an apathetic, afraid, and angry society for them to thrive on. Under similer circumstances hitler to control the same way the Bush&#39;s administration is using now. Believe it our not our country is in a similer state as post WW1 Germany was, angry, afraid, and looking for a scapegoat.
...
The US has already removed some freedom rights...some of the first things that a fascist government does. Next thing you know the US will pop out a who&#39;s better race list :P .

DeadMan.

[Fidel Castro]

El_profe, you refer to people as retards based upon there oppinions and ideas. Just because someone is incorrect or misguided (such as yourself), it does not make them mentally retarded. I&#39;m sorry but I do know of folk who deal with the mentally handicapped and I really find it quite offensive when it is thrown around as a cheap insult.

Geng

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 10:09 PM
El_profe, you refer to people as retards based upon there oppinions and ideas. Just because someone is incorrect or misguided (such as yourself), it does not make them mentally retarded. I&#39;m sorry but I do know of folk who deal with the mentally handicapped and I really find it quite offensive when it is thrown around as a cheap insult.

Geng
Its not about opinion, i look at reality and the facts. fascist countries hae leaders that opress their own people , that does not happen in monaco or the US.

[DeadMan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 10:23 PM
Its not about opinion, i look at reality and the facts. fascist countries hae leaders that opress their own people , that does not happen in monaco or the US.
But the US has been taking away rights and freedoms. So, in a sense, they are slowly taking the path. Maybe after the whole fake &#39;terrorist&#39; sacre bullshit goes away they will give them back....maybe not.

DeadMan.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 06:36 PM
lol, monaco? you are a moron.
You go around calling people "moron" and "retard" because they don&#39;t share your ideals...who&#39;s the moron and the retard then? You seem like Bu&#036;h, a dumb idiot trying to be the owner of the world, invading countries using fake pretexts (where are the WMDs Iraq had????) just to have the military monopoly to control the world and defend the interests of the ugly yanqui idiots (the "American way of life" and the "American democracy"). Face it, this is neo-fascism. Just that things like the "rebirth of the Roman empire" do not seem too important, but now it&#39;s time for the "Yanqui empire" to take over. The yanquis elections were truly a proof that over there in yanquiland you live brainwashed and controlled by the government. Even here, in the 3rd world, we already end the vote&#39;s counting faster, while over there you delayed it and it seems like it was manipulated. America&#33; The land of the freedom, the deomocracy, the Homer Simpsons, the 1 month delay on election&#39;s final results, the first world??? Please...

About Monaco, as I said on that same paragraph: "I&#39;m not sure about Monaco"&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; I did a small research and this is waht I found:
CIA World Factbook says:

Executive branch:
elections: none; the monarchy is hereditary; minister of state appointed by the monarch from a list of three French national candidates presented by the French Government
cabinet: Council of Government is under the authority of the monarch


Economy - overview:
The state has no income tax and low business taxes and thrives as a tax haven both for individuals who have established residence and for foreign companies that have set up businesses and offices. The state retains monopolies in a number of sectors, including tobacco, the telephone network, and the postal service. Living standards are high, roughly comparable to those in prosperous French metropolitan areas.

Considering Monaco is a capitalists&#39; city, I doubt the system is "leftist". It seems they don&#39;t pay income taxes there, however there&#39;s a dictator that you can&#39;t get rid of. Considering this, it seems a perfect capitalist utopia.

If this information is right, then Monaco isn&#39;t fascist. However, I&#39;m not sure if it is a trustable source, and my point here wasn&#39;t saying it was fascist, but that it had a fascist-styled rule, without that exactly meaning a fascist economy or political order. As there&#39;s no opposition to the government because of it&#39;s rich nature, you can only see a small libertarian utopia where there isn&#39;t opposition to crush. The point of all this was identifying possible modern fascists governments, but it seems there isnt any leader speaking as, for example, Mussolini (maybe Bush sometimes...). So I tried to identify non-democratic attitudes and non-socialist economies.

So...now that I cleared this out you should stop going around thinking you are god and that what you think is the truth. Wow, that sounded like if you were a fascist&#33;

[el_profe]

Like i said its not about opinions its about facts. the USA taking away rights, right but no where close to what a tru fascist country would do.

What rights are you talkin about Dead man?, get your fucking facts right.

I can crtitize the shit out of BUSH on national TV and i wont get thrown in jail like would of happened in Nazi germany, fascist italy, Communist Cuba, china, USSR etc.

you see democrats bash the shit out of bush and i still se them alive and well.

LISTEN, THE USA AND MONACO ARE NOT FASCIST COUNTRIES.
must I put the definition of fascism here again, i think I DO, SO THAT MORONS LIKE DEAD MAN can actally know what they are talking about

Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control

Now lets see where the USA matches with those definitions:

1. centralization of authority under a dictator. NO, for the idiots that will say look at the 2000 elections he lost, so he is a dictator, this is a dictator: An absolute ruler.
A tyrant.
2. stringent socioeconomic controls: NO, socioeconomic: involving both social and economic factors.
3.suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship. NO. this mean suppression in the country, not fucking in Iraq, in the USA.
4. typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. NO. that is why so many people immigrate to the USA, it is a melting pot.

So do you hate the USA dead man, yes, is it a fascist country, for the 900th time. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. ;)