music in communism

[dirtyd6969]

does music work in communism ? what about composers and such . actually the entertainment business in whole.

[bush youth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2003, 01:47 AM
does music work in communism ? what about composers and such . actually the entertainment business in whole.
I'd like to know the answer to that too.
All I can assume is that it would because the left wing is a hotbed for fine arts.
There would be a lot less corporate shoe-selling music too :)
But you probably already realized that.

[Hate Is Art]

i had allways assumed there would be music but they just wouldnt be celebritys or earn horrible ammounts of money,

[Saint-Just]

I would get rid of all the music created under capitalism and see what develops naturally. I imagine that most music developed would be folk and classical.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Better, why not remove the money incentive and see how many people create music for the art and not for the cash

[Danton]

What is wonderful about music under Communism is that a guy like "Ibrahim Ferrer" of the Buena Vista social club who was shining the shoes of the Cuban social elite under Batista, gets to put his musical skills to practical use... Teaching new generations, organizing musicians unions etc...

Musical proffessionalism is rewarded like any other skill in a revolutionary enviroment, furthermore the real musicians are recognized and emphasis is placed on tangible, practical ability such as reading music, playing instruments, vocal ability...

Needless to say there will be no room for chancers and pop products based soley on good looks or televisual noterity - you will need to prove your ability as they do in Cuba. No room either for pre-madonna's or lazy, stuck up and pompous, selfish diva's... Under communism, the musicians self importence - brought on in the west through overpayment and overattention is rendered obselete....

Is it any wonder then that Cuba herself gives us generation upon generation of the most skilled musicians and beautifully crafted music...

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Perhaps this hasn't been the case in Cuba, but i frankly don't see why people in communism won't be drawn to musicians based on looks as they do in capitalism.

I think you mean prima donna.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I would get rid of all the music created under capitalism

Don't you dare go anywhere near my Trance CD's! :angry:

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2003, 09:21 AM

I would get rid of all the music created under capitalism

Don't you dare go anywhere near my Trance CD's! :angry:
I have lots of hip-hop CDs, I love them but I would burn them all if Kim Jong Il asked me.

[Danton]

Perhaps this hasn't been the case in Cuba, but i frankly don't see why people in communism won't be drawn to musicians based on looks as they do in capitalism.

Because this hasn't been the case in Cuba and because music in it's esscence is not about good looks, as much as working a lathe or plowing fields is not about good looks...

Thank you for correcting my indecipherable language...

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I have lots of hip-hop CDs, I love them but I would burn them all if Kim Jong Il asked me.

That's scary. I hope you're just yanking my chain.

[Hate Is Art]

it would be interesting seeing how many people did for love of music and art and not just to live in a mansion, but those people would be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes :huh:

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2003, 05:22 AM
Perhaps this hasn't been the case in Cuba, but i frankly don't see why people in communism won't be drawn to musicians based on looks as they do in capitalism.

Because this hasn't been the case in Cuba and because music in it's esscence is not about good looks, as much as working a lathe or plowing fields is not about good looks...
But entertainers are brought out for the people to see and people are attracted to attractive people. In capitalism, people are drawn to musicians who can make music about as much as they're drawn to those who simply look sexy. So I conclude that musicians are artisticaly successful regardless of how much money is poured upon them.

Chairman mao: Why do you assume that leaders like Kim Jong Il will always have the intersets of the people in mind, even when it involves a CD burning?

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by Chairman Mao+Dec 17 2003, 11:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chairman Mao @ Dec 17 2003, 11:13 AM)
[email protected] 17 2003, 09:21 AM

I would get rid of all the music created under capitalism

Don&#39;t you dare go anywhere near my Trance CD&#39;s&#33; :angry:
I have lots of hip-hop CDs, I love them but I would burn them all if Kim Jong Il asked me. [/b]
Don&#39;t worry Noxion he was talking about music javascript:emoticon(&#39;;)&#39;)
smilie

And Chairman Mao, I am Kim Jong Il and I do say burn all your CDs, burn them right now&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I have lots of hip-hop CDs
Don&#39;t worry Noxion he was talking about music

Im wouldn&#39;t be talking about a lack of musical value if I listened to punk.

[Danish]

Originally posted by Chairman Mao+Dec 17 2003, 11:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chairman Mao @ Dec 17 2003, 11:13 AM)
[email protected] 17 2003, 09:21 AM

I would get rid of all the music created under capitalism

Don&#39;t you dare go anywhere near my Trance CD&#39;s&#33; :angry:
I have lots of hip-hop CDs, I love them but I would burn them all if Kim Jong Il asked me. [/b]
Just what a communist society needs: people that will do anything those with authority tell them to.

"They say jump, you say &#39;how high?&#39;"

[Jimmie Higgins]

I don&#39;t know what the music would be like in a future society, but I think socialism would be vary benificial to popular arts. Art has teneded to really explode when there are popular mass movements and popular revolts and revolution. And I think art would continue to prosper in a socialist state for a couple of reasons:

1) people would have more freetime and more resources in which to cultivate their talents and likes. People often have garage bands, play guitar, freestyle when they are in high school, but many of these bands and hobbies are abandoned when people have to start working full time and worrying about bills and families.

2) In capitalism, when new technology for art becomes more acessible to working people, then there is also an explosion of creativity and art. So in a socialist society, more people would have acess to studios and musical equipment since it wouldn&#39;t be owned and rented out by companies at very high rates. Additionally, new technology like sattalite radio or the internet couls be used to disseminate more music and literature and art and film.

3) Capitalism makes music suck&#33; I don&#39;t know anyone who likes the way MTV is set up now (no music videos) or dosn&#39;t complain that the radio only plays the same songs over and over again, yet things work that way because it is more profitable to produce and promote a handful of bland bands that people only kind of hate, kind of tolerate then it is to promoste 1000s of other bands which might appeal to people&#39;s unique tastes more.

[Danton]

. In capitalism, people are drawn to musicians who can make music about as much as they&#39;re drawn to those who simply look sexy.

Herein lies the problem, would&#39;nt you agree popular music in general is in a state of decline in quality? Thus under Communism music is stripped back to it&#39;s essential ingredients, the musician and the instrument...

[Danton]

edit double post

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by celtopunk+Dec 18 2003, 12:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (celtopunk @ Dec 18 2003, 12:06 AM)
Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 17 2003, 11:13 AM

[email protected] 17 2003, 09:21 AM

I would get rid of all the music created under capitalism

Don&#39;t you dare go anywhere near my Trance CD&#39;s&#33; :angry:
I have lots of hip-hop CDs, I love them but I would burn them all if Kim Jong Il asked me.
Don&#39;t worry Noxion he was talking about music javascript:emoticon(&#39;;)&#39;)
smilie

And Chairman Mao, I am Kim Jong Il and I do say burn all your CDs, burn them right now&#33;&#33;&#33; [/b]
Philistine :o

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 12:28 AM




I have lots of hip-hop CDs
Don&#39;t worry Noxion he was talking about music

Im wouldn&#39;t be talking about a lack of musical value if I listened to punk.
Victor:

1) I was joking.

2) I&#39;m quite convinced you have no idea what punk music is and have hardly listened to any.

3) Shouldn&#39;t you be listening to a 20 minute Rick Wakeman keyboard solo or something?

[Saint-Just]

Chairman mao: Why do you assume that leaders like Kim Jong Il will always have the intersets of the people in mind, even when it involves a CD burning? ~Victorcommie

I assume Kim Jong Il does everything in the interests of the people. If I lived in the DPRK I would not listen to hip-hop, because the DPRK does not possess the kind of culture that creates and enjoys such music.

Just what a communist society needs: people that will do anything those with authority tell them to.

"They say jump, you say &#39;how high?&#39;" ~Danish

A communist society needs people who have internalised social norms to such a degree that they do not require external constaints. You need people who reject authority in a communist society, that is correct, however in this case it is irrelevent. Because in the transition to communism people need to accept authority. Leaders such as Kim Jong Il would not exist in a communist society.

[Se7en]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 18 2003, 01:06 PM
I assume Kim Jong Il does everything in the interests of the people. If I lived in the DPRK I would not listen to hip-hop, because the DPRK does not possess the kind of culture that creates and enjoys such music.
I saw a special on the discovery channel about the children of north korea, "children of the secret state" i think it was entitled. anyway, you&#39;d think providing his people with food would be in their interests but he hasn&#39;t gotten around to that yet.

Anyway, I don&#39;t think there will ever be a society or culture in which music does not have a place. It has and will always exist in one form or another.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 04:53 AM
. In capitalism, people are drawn to musicians who can make music about as much as they&#39;re drawn to those who simply look sexy.

Herein lies the problem, would&#39;nt you agree popular music in general is in a state of decline in quality? Thus under Communism music is stripped back to it&#39;s essential ingredients, the musician and the instrument...
Why? People like looking at other sexy people&#33;
That quote was meant to say that since musicians with no talent are as successful as those with talent in capitalism where money is poured upon them, wouldn&#39;t they still be proportionaly successful when a humble amount of money (or goods, if money doesn&#39;t exist)) is given to them. Or will the state determine what is and what isn&#39;t available to the public.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Victor:

1) I was joking.

Ok


2) I&#39;m quite convinced you have no idea what punk music is and have hardly listened to any.

That isn&#39;t true, actualy.


3) Shouldn&#39;t you be listening to a 20 minute Rick Wakeman keyboard solo or something?

Maybe I am....=D

[Hate Is Art]

chairman may i ask why you left?

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 18 2003, 09:05 PM
chairman may i ask why you left?
Perhaps Kim Jong Il told him to leave.

[Danton]

Why? People like looking at other sexy people&#33;

There exists already an arena for that, fashion modeling, porn or soap opera&#39;s... Nothing to do with music which is an auditory experience...
It&#39;s exactly the kind of people who go primarily to concerts to view and exalt their idols that have created this image orientated MTV culture which in my opinion is killing MUSICAL talent...

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 10:51 AM
Why? People like looking at other sexy people&#33;

There exists already an arena for that, fashion modeling, porn or soap opera&#39;s... Nothing to do with music which is an auditory experience...
It&#39;s exactly the kind of people who go primarily to concerts to view and exalt their idols that have created this image orientated MTV culture which in my opinion is killing MUSICAL talent...
Danton is right. Video is the worst thing to ever happen to music. It has made it so much easier to make a star out of talentless people with good looks.

Getting back to Victor, I&#39;m REALLY quite sure you have listened (really listened) to very little punk. I&#39;m sure I could throw out a slew of bands/artists that you&#39;ve never actually heard. Whereas I&#39;m very familiar with all the bands that you mention.

Are you going to tell me that the Jam are no good, X are no good, the Clash? What about proto-punk bands like the Who, the Kinks, and the MC5.

Punk is really quite varied and to say that you, as a music fan absolutely don&#39;t like any of it is to be about as ignorant as you can get, and the worst kind of ignorance too, self imposed.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Are you suggesting that talentless musicians are popular only because corporations want them to be, and their is no demand for this kind of music from people? I beg to differ. Perhaps corporations play a role in making artists popular, but I think that it&#39;s largely in result of a demand for the crap.

I know what is the criteria for characterizing something as punk, and I inherently dislike those characteristics in music. Doesn&#39;t mean I won&#39;t listen to "punk" bands with an open mind, but in general it&#39;s not my bag.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 11:01 PM
the Who...
I love the Who&#39;s early British-invasion type stuff like Tommy(a great musical&#33;), Pictures of Lilly, My Generation, etc.
They changed quite a bit, and I moderately like their later stuff, but you can&#39;t fool me, biatch&#33; I can pick up on the punk-ness.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 18 2003, 09:05 PM
chairman may i ask why you left?
I didn&#39;t leave, this is merely the first time I have visited this thread since my last post.

I saw a special on the discovery channel about the children of north korea, "children of the secret state" i think it was entitled. anyway, you&#39;d think providing his people with food would be in their interests but he hasn&#39;t gotten around to that yet.

I have been arguing about this for a year on this site alone, your post made me laugh because this is probably the first question I addressed on North Korea.

It doesn&#39;t matter what type of music we have, you will like some of it regardless. What matters is how readily available and widespread music is, IMO, I wouldn&#39;t be sure of this.

[Hate Is Art]

i meant left north korea

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 07:30 AM
Are you suggesting that talentless musicians are popular only because corporations want them to be, and their is no demand for this kind of music from people? I beg to differ. Perhaps corporations play a role in making artists popular, but I think that it&#39;s largely in result of a demand for the crap.


Comrade that&#39;s exactly what I&#39;m saying, the corporations create the demand by forcefeeding us this offal through every medium available, you can&#39;t turn on a radio, T.V, go shopping even walk down the fucking street without being assaulted by the latest "hot new thing" glaring at you from billboards or on the sides of taxi&#39;s, on the tube, on the bus, I&#39;ve got popstars on my cockin cereal box...

They grind you down until you find yourself humming some rotten tune and you realize "Shit&#33; I hate that song" It&#39;s too late though, they got ya&#33;

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by Danton+Dec 22 2003, 09:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Danton @ Dec 22 2003, 09:13 AM)
[email protected] 20 2003, 07:30 AM
Are you suggesting that talentless musicians are popular only because corporations want them to be, and their is no demand for this kind of music from people? I beg to differ. Perhaps corporations play a role in making artists popular, but I think that it&#39;s largely in result of a demand for the crap.


Comrade that&#39;s exactly what I&#39;m saying, the corporations create the demand by forcefeeding us this offal through every medium available, you can&#39;t turn on a radio, T.V, go shopping even walk down the fucking street without being assaulted by the latest "hot new thing" glaring at you from billboards or on the sides of taxi&#39;s, on the tube, on the bus, I&#39;ve got popstars on my cockin cereal box...

They grind you down until you find yourself humming some rotten tune and you realize "Shit&#33; I hate that song" It&#39;s too late though, they got ya&#33; [/b]
I agree with Danton again. Demand is created for the likes of Britney Spears et al. Face it if she was ugly she&#39;d be working at WalMart. But getting back to creating demand. Who is the target of this crap? Pre-teens and young teens and possibly even younger kids, they are also the ones most easily influenced by the marketing onslaught. If you have kids you know what I mean. A kid is watching tv, there is a commercial for some toy and suddenly the kid has gotta have that toy. It is very similar with crappy pop music.