Sexual objectification: a practical definition?

[Dumb]

After my previous thread, I'll understand if people think I'm trolling. I promise that's not the case...this is a real problem for me, and I'd feel awful if I thought I was wasting somebody's time. (I hope I'm not... =S )

I understand the dictionary definition of sexual objectification: treating someone or something as merely an instrument for somebody else to derive sexual gratification. Based on this definition (and common human courtesy), there are many behaviors that I can understand are obviously objectifying (strip clubs, rape), and I recognize others that are more subtle but are objectifying nonetheless (eg interrupting women in a way one does not interrupt men - presumably, only men are fit to be heard, while women are only fit to be penetrated).

However, what I don't quite grasp is where exactly one draws the line. For example, is it wrong to look at a woman and find her physically attractive? I don't see why that wouldn't be wrong - I wouldn't look at most men the same way, and my behavior implies that a woman is somehow automatically a candidate to be my partner in coitus. I feel so guilty, so ashamed of that message that the last year or so, I've taken to not looking at women at all; I keep my head down at all times, and tilted towards walls whenever possible. I don't want women to feel excluded, either, so I do whatever I can to avoid looking at anybody at all. Needless to say, these precautions are exhausting - necessary, given the monstrosity of my nature, but exhausting.

Is there a better way? :(

[Lynx]

What do you mean by "the monstrosity of my nature" ?

[Dumb]

What do you mean by "the monstrosity of my nature" ?

The manner in which I degrade and demean all women.

[Robocommie]

You kind of sound like you're bent on self-flagellation here, chief.

[Dumb]

I'm sorry :(

[Agent Ducky]

Looking at a woman and finding her attractive isn't objectification. Are you trolling? Just try not to stare at our asses and boobs; many of us don't take kindly to that.

[Dumb]

Looking at a woman and finding her attractive isn't objectification. Are you trolling? Just try not to stare at our asses and boobs; many of us don't take kindly to that.

I wish I were, and I'm so sorry for making you feel that way...I don't know what I can do or say to make you realize that I mean this in all sincerity.

I feel like Frankenstein's monster, how my very presence is a cause for fear, disgust, disdain, and I just hope maybe if I could stop being a source of oppression and subjugation, maybe other people wouldn't see me that way...

[Agent Ducky]

I wish I were, and I'm so sorry for making you feel that way...I don't know what I can do or say to make you realize that I mean this in all sincerity.

I feel like Frankenstein's monster, how my very presence is a cause for fear, disgust, disdain, and I just hope maybe if I could stop being a source of oppression and subjugation, maybe other people wouldn't see me that way...

Advice to not look like you're trolling: don't say stuff like that. Chill out and grab some self-confidence.

[Dumb]

I'm really sorry :S

[Halleluhwah]

Yeah, I was leaning toward 'not trolling, but misguided' in your thread about whether white people can be revolutionaries, but you're really overdoing it here. If you're not some right wing "reverse racism" men's rights troll trying to make a point, I'm pretty sure you're fishing for pity as a white, male, heterosexual "monstrosity." I could be wrong, and if you're sincerely depressed and guilty over all of this then seriously, talk to a therapist or smoke a bowl or something. Or use your guilt as motivation, contribute to anti-racist or other leftist causes instead of complaining on a message board.

[Agent Ducky]

I'm really sorry :S

And stop apologizing! Instead of focusing on "people think I'm trolling ;-;" focus on what they're actually saying and why people might think you're trolling.

[Robocommie]

Bro, do you suffer from depression? Because it sounds like you're inflicting this on yourself in a non-healthy way. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just saying I recognize the mentality, I suffer from depression myself, and if you are suffering from a depressive disorder, you should try and get help. It'll make your quality of life much much higher.

[Ele'ill]

People look at one another all the time for various reasons. It shouldn't be too hard not to piss someone off in the process whether you're checking someone out cause you find them attractive or you're checking them out cause you're drinking a coffee, bored, and people watching at a cafe or public park. You're not entitled to their body, to make them uncomfortable by gawking, pretty much in any situation.

[Robocommie]

Yeah, there's a difference between looking and leering. Just be respectful and courteous, and if you've ever found you've crossed a line with someone, don't nuke yourself over it, just apologize and respect their boundaries. Everyone is different in terms of what they find appropriate.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[RRRevolution]

The manner in which I degrade and demean all women.I'm guessing you could stand to go a bit easier on yourself.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

I've always thought that it's peoples opinions that are objectifying. For example, at a strip club, one person might be enjoying it, but still respects women, and doesn't think of them all as objects. Am I wrong?

[hatzel]

You kind of sound like you're bent on self-flagellation here, chief.

Could this perhaps be seen as sexual self-objectification? Or does it follow on from it? Is there a transformation of self into / realisation of self as sexual object, followed by an outburst at shame in the face of one's own sexuality? Is that what we're dealing with here? Has penis envy inverted itself, with the organ now pushed back into the body? Are there castration fantasies at play? Might this fit into the sadomasochistic pattern we discern? Would this reveal anything? Does it really matter?

(Answers to all questions are 'probably not,' by the way...)