Should any marxist these days use the word lumpen

[lenin1988]

technically I am Lumpenproletariat since I am long term unemployed and no capitalist owners and managers will hire me .. But my state is in a one state depression so I cant be alone. it seema very capitalist to make fun of the unemployed. I dont think the unemployed should be listed in the lumpen crowd. I with Marx on most things exept for the lumpen thing.. It seems very hypocritical to judge a class of society that has been hurt by Capitalism.. So does anyone evem use the lumpen label to unemployed people such as myself? I.only considet lumpen those who do illegal things not the unemployed

[Blackscare]

Well, just because Marx was a bit off on his attitudes relating to the Lumpen proletariat (which includes criminal elements, not simply the long-term unemployed) does not mean we should abandon the term. After all, the term itself isn't a slur, it a socioeconomic category.


I suggest you real Franz Fannon's "The Wretched of the Earth", he wrote extensively on the revolutionary potential of the Lumpen proletariat, and he certainly wasn't "making fun" of them.

[Jimmie Higgins]

technically I am Lumpenproletariat since I am long term unemployed and no capitalist owners and managers will hire me .. But my state is in a one state depression so I cant be alone. it seema very capitalist to make fun of the unemployed. I dont think the unemployed should be listed in the lumpen crowd. I with Marx on most things exept for the lumpen thing.. It seems very hypocritical to judge a class of society that has been hurt by Capitalism.. So does anyone evem use the lumpen label to unemployed people such as myself? I.only considet lumpen those who do illegal things not the unemployedWell I thought it did apply to people who make their living through illegal means, not workers who are unemployed.

[Comrades Unite!]

I think Lumpen-Proletariat should only be used for the Criminal Proletariat.

[mew]

i think marx would refer to you more as being part of the reserve army of labor. not entirely sure though. i think lumpen refers more to petty criminals, the homeless, sex workers...

[Comrades Unite!]

^^^And to those who have not realized Class Consciousness, such as the ones who care not of there present conditions.

[Art Vandelay]

The lumpen proletariat are those with no relation to the means of production, ie: the unemployed, the homeless, criminals etc....I don't consider it to be a derogatory term at all and believe that Marx undoubtedly underestimated the revolutionary potential of a group of people with gripes at the current system and nothing to lose. That said, you are a member of the socioeconomic category which is known as the lumpen-proletariat and you have nothing to be ashamed about.

[Comrades Unite!]

If some one feels the word Lumpen Proletariat shameful then just say Rogue Proletariat.

[Comrade Jandar]

From the Communist Manifesto:


The “dangerous class”, [lumpenproletariat] the social scum, that passively rotting mass thrown off by the lowest layers of the old society, may, here and there, be swept into the movement by a proletarian revolution; its conditions of life, however, prepare it far more for the part of a bribed tool of reactionary intrigue.

I'm sorry but in this instance, fuck you Karl Marx.

[L.A.P.]

Shouldn't people like mob bosses and drug lords be considered lumpenbourgeoisie?

[Comrade Jandar]

Shouldn't people like mob bosses and drug lords be considered lumpenbourgeoisie?


I was actually wondering that same thing recently.

[Rafiq]

Unemployed aren't lumpen. Only those not looking for work are (not a bad thing).

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[Comrades Unite!]

From the Communist Manifesto:



I'm sorry but in this instance, fuck you Karl Marx.

That bit of text screams Frederic Engel's moreso than Marx.

I don't think he means that they are the social scum, but that in Society they are considered to be, People that are un-employed often are chastised for it.

[lenin1988]

From the Communist Manifesto:



I'm sorry but in this instance, fuck you Karl Marx.

I agree.. That quote is very judgemental about some people who look for work almost everyday and are screwed by the system and the petty bourgeoisie.. I dont really consider myself lumpen and I dont plan to be lumpen forever

[Art Vandelay]

Unemployed aren't lumpen. Only those not looking for work are (not a bad thing).

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So even long term unemployed, despite not having any relation to the means of production, are not lumpen-proletariat?

[Comrades Unite!]

So even long term unemployed, despite not having any relation to the means of production, are not lumpen-proletariat?

If that long term unemployed person is looking to sell his labour then, no he is not a lumpen-proletariat.:hammersickle:

[Art Vandelay]

If that long term unemployed person is looking to sell his labour then, no he is not a lumpen-proletariat.:hammersickle:

What is he/she then? Simply a proletariat? Included in the army of reserve labor?

I just don't see how the long term unemployed have a different relation to the means of production, regardless of whether or not they are seeking active employment.

Edit: OP, you have under your name: "Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Juche," that is just a joke right? Or do you actually ascribe to all of said ideologies?

[lenin1988]

What is he/she then? Simply a proletariat? Included in the army of reserve labor?

I just don't see how the long term unemployed have a different relation to the means of production, regardless of whether or not they are seeking active employment.

Edit: OP, you have under your name: "Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Juche," that is just a joke right? Or do you actually ascribe to all of said ideologies?

I ascribe to all of them..

[Jimmie Higgins]

That bit of text screams Frederic Engel's moreso than Marx.

I don't think he means that they are the social scum, but that in Society they are considered to be, People that are un-employed often are chastised for it.Well if you just mean low-level part-time criminals and whatnot, this makes no sense. But there is some truth when it comes to people who make a living from the black market. Organized crime organizations have often been used as a counterweight to radical influence in the working class, specifically in the unions, but also in other areas.

[Comrades Unite!]

Well if you just mean low-level part-time criminals and whatnot, this makes no sense. But there is some truth when it comes to people who make a living from the black market. Organized crime organizations have often been used as a counterweight to radical influence in the working class, specifically in the unions, but also in other areas.

I was mainly talking about the un-employed, A'lot of the Proletariat are ignorant, this can't be denied, That's why education is so important.

I think Engels when a bit overboard with his writing concerning the Lumpen Proletariat.