let's send poor kids to military academies

[ed miliband]

well, that's the idea being floated by our great socialist comrades in the labour party:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18770387

at least they aren't those nasty tories though, right?

i remember when i was doing a-level politics, we had to do a weekly 'newspaper review' where we speak about a particular story we saw in a newspaper. i'd usually nick stuff off here or libcom or whatever, and claim i got it from the guardian. anyway, one week i had a story about a labour policy proposal that would see pregnant teenage girls sent to sheltered housing. when i was critical of this my ("very left-wing, feminist" in her own words) teacher very aggresively accused me of not caring about the plight of these poor teenage girls. had this been tory policy she would have agreed with my criticisms. it's amazing the way people rationalise things based on the colour of the party proposing it...

[The Douche]

In my experience, sending angry poor kids to places full of machismo and shit will only create angry poor kids who are only more prone to violence.

8 years ago I was a pretty quiet and reserved dude who had to be pushed into a corner in order to get violent or aggressive, the military changed that pretty quickly, and I know a lot of other people who have very similar stories.

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

In my experience, sending angry poor kids to places full of machismo and shit will only create angry poor kids who are only more prone to violence.

8 years ago I was a pretty quiet and reserved dude who had to be pushed into a corner in order to get violent or aggressive, the military changed that pretty quickly, and I know a lot of other people who have very similar stories.

I think you are absolutely correct here! One can cite endless examples of this happening.

The thing is the bourgeoisie doesn´t care about how damaging it´s solutions are to a single person, groups of people or society itself. Just so long as it doesn´t cost them anything extra in the short term and appears socially useful (for capital).

[helot]

Apparently it's a response to the riots last year in which case i suspect the idea is to instill military discipline. Obedience, in the eyes of the ruling class, is ofc a virtue.

[A Marxist Historian]

In my experience, sending angry poor kids to places full of machismo and shit will only create angry poor kids who are only more prone to violence.

8 years ago I was a pretty quiet and reserved dude who had to be pushed into a corner in order to get violent or aggressive, the military changed that pretty quickly, and I know a lot of other people who have very similar stories.

Isn't that part of the point? What's the military for? To go into other countries, and kill, burn, loot and rape at the convenience of the ruling classes. Or, if things get out of hand, internally.

The idea is to channel the anger of the youth to ruling class purposes.

-M.H.-

[The Douche]

Isn't that part of the point? What's the military for? To go into other countries, and kill, burn, loot and rape at the convenience of the ruling classes. Or, if things get out of hand, internally.

The idea is to channel the anger of the youth to ruling class purposes.

-M.H.-

Except that people eventually get out the military and that mindset remains.

[Black_Rose]

Apparently it's a response to the riots last year in which case i suspect the idea is to instill military discipline. Obedience, in the eyes of the ruling class, is ofc a virtue. I attend a Catholic Church for Mass every Sunday, but I rarely socialize with other people outside of that. One can simply learn about contemporary social trends and attitudes by being exposed through the mediums of popular culture such as music, television, and radio, or by reading about it, but I also encounter these attitudes quite explicitly during Mass. During the prayers after Communion and before the announcements, approximately three-quarters of the time, there is an intention for military personnel and idealistic prayers for general peace in the world.

I guess the general respect for military institutions shows how entrenched bourgeois memes are in American culture and how uncritical most people are about the intentions and mission of the military.

[bricolage]

Except that people eventually get out the military and that mindset remains.
yep, saw a news story on the weekend that, in the UK, 1 in 10 prisoners are former soliders (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/one-in-10-prisoners-is-a-former-soldier-new-research-reveals-7944479.html), I imagine a very large amount of them are related to assault.

[Leftwinger]

A military school is better than youths being left on the streets unemployed and risking going into crime. Some of these youngsters are angry and could do with taking their frustration out in a positive way with the army.
Having said all that I'm against the concept of war, but some of these kids have no option because the world governments seem to like them for many pointless reasons.

[A Marxist Historian]

Except that people eventually get out the military and that mindset remains.

Yes, but they have jails and police with itchy trigger fingers to take care of that problem. And besides, if the crime rate rises, the populace gets freaked out and moves to the right politically.

-M.H.-

[Igor]

A military school is better than youths being left on the streets unemployed and risking going into crime. Some of these youngsters are angry and could do with taking their frustration out in a positive way with the army.

How in hell is taking their frustration out in the army in any way a positive way to do it?

[A Marxist Historian]

A military school is better than youths being left on the streets unemployed and risking going into crime. Some of these youngsters are angry and could do with taking their frustration out in a positive way with the army.
Having said all that I'm against the concept of war, but some of these kids have no option because the world governments seem to like them for many pointless reasons.

So they can commit crimes against people in countries other than their own?

It's true that unemployed youth have few other options in our declining capitalist society. The prime other option is getting into the drug trade, which is pretty violent and bad news too.

But not as bad as the mass murder inflicted on the world by imperialist armies.

-M.H.-

[Leftwinger]

Have I not just said that I was anti-war? I hate the deaths that have occured to young, innocent soldiers across the world from pointless wars that are all about money, political point scoring and pure greed, but joining the army doesn't have to mean going to Afghanistan or Iraq, or involve the foreign policy politicians are so obsessed about.
Would you not rather kids go to the Army than be on the streets getting involved with drugs? It's not the perfect solution, but whilst there are no jobs around, what else do you propose they do? Obviously they can look on the high street and on the job centre website, there are a few vacancies around, but no where near enough to cater for everyone.
There is competition for every job going these days, and a lot of the jobs don't suit young people because they either require experience, or are on temporary contracts. The best thing to do then is try and find some work experience or an apprentice, but there aren't even a lot of them around and when there are, they aren't very beneficial and the employers don't care half the time.
The government need to create jobs as well through the public sector because that's what people in the North of England rely on, too much of it is going towards private enterprise and business in the South that is increasingly be exposed as not being effective enough. I'm not as left wing as some people on here, but I am left wing. Surely it's good to have someone with a slightly different opinion to others?

[A Marxist Historian]

Have I not just said that I was anti-war? I hate the deaths that have occured to young, innocent soldiers across the world from pointless wars that are all about money, political point scoring and pure greed, but joining the army doesn't have to mean going to Afghanistan or Iraq, or involve the foreign policy politicians are so obsessed about.
Would you not rather kids go to the Army than be on the streets getting involved with drugs? It's not the perfect solution, but whilst there are no jobs around, what else do you propose they do? Obviously they can look on the high street and on the job centre website, there are a few vacancies around, but no where near enough to cater for everyone.
There is competition for every job going these days, and a lot of the jobs don't suit young people because they either require experience, or are on temporary contracts. The best thing to do then is try and find some work experience or an apprentice, but there aren't even a lot of them around and when there are, they aren't very beneficial and the employers don't care half the time.
The government need to create jobs as well through the public sector because that's what people in the North of England rely on, too much of it is going towards private enterprise and business in the South that is increasingly be exposed as not being effective enough. I'm not as left wing as some people on here, but I am left wing. Surely it's good to have someone with a slightly different opinion to others?

Well, being that attitudes such as yours are quite common, including even among those who think of themselves as revolutionaries, I'd be in no hurry to chase you out of here as a reformist.

Going into the army vs. going into the drug trade is a horrible choice, but I think I'd have to say that the drug trade as a career does damage to society, but not as much as capitalist armies do.

Of course most youth going into the army are not going into it to learn to kill, but in the hopes of getting job training etc., and returning to civilian life with a better chance to succeed in life. But they are being deceived.

Don't know what the situation is in the UK, but in the USA, veterans are more likely to be unemployed and homeless, and more likely in fact to become criminals, than nonvets. And of course many die or become disabled, and then there is PTSD.

And many who do get employment are as cops, security guards, mercenaries, etc.

Actually, military experience is excellent training for joining drug gangs, come to think of it.

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

...I'm not as left wing as some people on here, but I am left wing. Surely it's good to have someone with a slightly different opinion to others?

Hmm. I've just noticed that you've already managed to get yourself restricted.

Was it for this thread? And I notice you describe yourself as a "reactionary," which seems like a good enough reason to restrict you right there. What's that supposed to be, a stupid joke? Or what?

-M.H.-

[Book O'Dead]

Martial training of the young does not necessarily lead to militarism.

I can speak to that from personal experience.

[brigadista]

not suprised given that Ed Milliband [not the revleft Ed ^^^] has openly opposed strike action this week during the bleeeding olympics

but joining the army can also cause PTSD in those returning and huge alcohol and drug problems on return as a result so its no alternative to "be on the streets getting involved with drugs"

and london has many ex military Eastern European conscripts suffering from PTSD and self medicating with alchohol - and before anyone jumps on me - i think they should get help from the uk state and i have no objections to them being in the UK.

ALso I should mention that a a good proportion of homeless single men in the UK with drink and drug problems were in the army.....

Its NO solution- stupid labour party

[Igor]

Its NO solution- stupid labour party

Not stupid - just bourgeois to their very core. For them, it is very much a good, working solution, because they frankly couldn't give less fucks about the working class.

[brigadista]

Not stupid - just bourgeois to their very core. For them, it is very much a good, working solution, because they frankly couldn't give less fucks about the working class.

because this is the internet - you couldn't see me spit out the word stupid...and as a working class person i have no illusions

[Book O'Dead]

not suprised given that Ed Milliband [not the revleft Ed ^^^] has openly opposed strike action this week during the bleeeding olympics

but joining the army can also cause PTSD in those returning and huge alcohol and drug problems on return as a result so its no alternative to "be on the streets getting involved with drugs"

and london has many ex military Eastern European conscripts suffering from PTSD and self medicating with alchohol - and before anyone jumps on me - i think they should get help from the uk state and i have no objections to them being in the UK.

ALso I should mention that a a good proportion of homeless single men in the UK with drink and drug problems were in the army.....

Its NO solution- stupid labour party

Perhaps Ed Milliband mistrusted something about this "strike action"?
Since you know so much about the military, perhaps you can clue us into what that might be?

[brigadista]

i dont "know so much about the military" but i do know about homelessness and i do not like my home town being under a military lock down and

if you want to know about the strike

see here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18912742