The Broken Window Fallacy

[Prinskaj]

I have been encountering this phrase a lot recently, when arguing that the state-intervention, increased "spending" is a necessity for existing this crisis.
Is there any good critiques of it?

[Tim Cornelis]

I have been encountering this phrase a lot recently, when arguing that the state-intervention, increased "spending" is a necessity for existing this crisis.
Is there any good critiques of it?

I don't understand the bold part ^. What do you mean by that?

The broken window fallacy sounds accurate to me.

[Permanent Revolutionary]

I think he is talking about stimulus packages and the like.

[Prinskaj]

I don't understand the bold part ^. What do you mean by that?
Sorry, I wrote it while I was in a hurry. (Still am, so this may also seem rushed)
The argument is often brought up, as an argument against government programs, such as social-security, medicare and public investment in, for example: Green energy, transportation or stimulus packages. I would argue that these government programs are necessary for capitalism to function, at least to some degree.

[Teacher]

The Failure of Capitalist Production by Andrew Kliman is about this topic exactly. Michael Perelman and Robert Brenner have also been critical of the Keynesian influence on the left.

It is really amazing to see so many "radicals" buying into Keynesian ideas. We are supposed to want to end capitalism, not "fix it."

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Edit: wrong thread, I'm a moron

[Veovis]

I have been encountering this phrase a lot recently, when arguing that the state-intervention, increased "spending" is a necessity for existing this crisis.
Is there any good critiques of it?

I don't think there is one. If we're going to stay within the capitalist paradigm, Keynesianism is the only way out of a crisis that keeps the system intact.

[Teacher]

Keynesianism does not fix capitalist crises, it only forestalls them and makes them potentially worse.

[blake 3:17]

Keynesianism does not fix capitalist crises, it only forestalls them and makes them potentially worse.

So do we oppose Keynesian policies? I'd tend to think we'd support them, providing they're ecologically sound, while also pushing for workers rights and economic democracy.

[Raúl Duke]

I thought the "broken window" idea/etc referred to some sociological principle(s) (like "anomie") which relates to crime...

[Die Neue Zeit]

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with this term. Maybe the OP had "market failure" in mind? :confused:

[jookyle]

The Broken Mirror idea, in economic terms, means that if you break you a window you're stimulating the economy because the person has to buy a new window, which means the seller has to buy a window from the distributor, who buys it from a manufacturer who buys the materials from a distributor who buys them from minors and what not who buy equipment that's bought from a store that buys from a distributor, and it goes on and on.

The most common critique of it is that it's hurting the economy because the window is something of market value and it's being destroyed.

[the Left™]

So do we oppose Keynesian policies? I'd tend to think we'd support them, providing they're ecologically sound, while also pushing for workers rights and economic democracy.

If we were abolitionists in the 1800's and someone came along and told us we should support Mr. Johnson down the street because he is a caring, nice, benevolent slave owner who takes really good care of his slaves and offers them a better life, would we comply and become apologists for slavery?

No.

People seem to think that reforms to capitalism, charity programs, non-profits are to be "supported" by the radical left. On some abstract humanitarian level sure I mean its better than de-regulated capitalism, but in the concrete practice of revolutionary ideals these are just capitalism, oppression, exploitation etc with a more human face, like the slave owner, just a nicer, more polite slave owner.

People tend to miss the actual radical criticisms of capitalism as being alienating of species being etc, and just see this human-face capitalism as an illusory satisfaction

[Os Cangaceiros]

The Broken Mirror idea, in economic terms, means that if you break you a window you're stimulating the economy because the person has to buy a new window, which means the seller has to buy a window from the distributor, who buys it from a manufacturer who buys the materials from a distributor who buys them from minors and what not who buy equipment that's bought from a store that buys from a distributor, and it goes on and on.

The most common critique of it is that it's hurting the economy because the window is something of market value and it's being destroyed.

IIRC (from my former days of flirting with right-wing libertarianism a bit) the idea is from Henry Hazlitt via Frederic Bastiat, and Hazlitt attacked the concept because even if the economy is stimulated in certain sectors, the fact remains that the guy who owned the window is out of a certain amount of money due to the loss of his property, so he has less to spend on things to stimulate the economy, and so on and so forth.