Micronational Landholdings

[Zav]

I am part of a small federation that seceded from the surrounding country back in the '90s (it was a kingdom then). We made local news but the larger government refused to recognize us. Anyway, a certain famous micronation is selling land to raise funds. Do you people think it would be imperialist/nationalistic zeal/bourgeois for my nation to purchase some of it with the aims of greater recognition and helping fellow micro-nationalists? We have a tied vote at the moment. The supporters desire the recognition from other micro-nations that this deal would bring, which we need because we are in rather poor standing due to being one of only a handful of known Anarchist micro-nations. Those against do not want to spend our limited funds on land we will not use very much when we are involved in three wars: two inter-micro-national defenses and one home defense.
In my opinion, we should buy the land. The invader's army consists of a Panzer, with no ammuntion, and a number of flare guns, and so will not be much of a problem. One defense is smaller than that, and the other is about the same.
This is serious, like Sealand, Molossia, Vikesland, and Austenasia, not anything at all like NationStates or Pixel Nations. What do you all think?

[Susurrus]

Buy probably, especially if the land for sale is usable. Also, would love to hear more about this. An anarchist micronation? Do tell.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I'm curious how some acquired a tank without getting negative attention from the police/military

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Wait you live in the US in a micro-nation that is being invaded by another micro-nation? Da fok?

[Zav]

Buy probably, especially if the land for sale is usable. Also, would love to hear more about this. An anarchist micronation? Do tell.
The thing is that the land really isn't, at least not by us. Yes, an Anarchist micronation. I'm not going to tell you which one or reveal too many details about it because I've no interest in meeting you creepy RevLefters or the cops reading this (Go eat your donuts and bother someone else). ;)


I'm curious how some acquired a tank without getting negative attention from the police/military
It's half fake, I believe. I know it's made with some legitimate parts, but it's meant for intimidation only. I doubt it moves. Here, as long as you aren't caught no one cares if you have a 'tank'. Besides, it's a small country. It has the right to have such things.


Wait you live in the US in a micro-nation that is being invaded by another micro-nation? Da fok?
No. I live in a micro-nation surrounded by the U.S. It's like Lesotho. Yes, there is a pesky country trying to invade us and steal our grain, literally. You don't hear about it on the macro-national tele because it would legitimize us, I suppose, or give us support, and we Anarchists are supposed to all be fifteen year old punks without organizational capability. It would make such a good program though, if some network covered inter-micro-national news. What is so 'da fok' about it?

[Raúl Duke]

IEDs that panzer up, 'nuff said

[A Revolutionary Tool]

So are you being invaded by the US or are you being invaded by another micro nation, you're confusing me here. The "da fok" is directed at the general situation. First you've tried to set up a legit nation within the US and you are also being attacked by another micro nation trying to do the same thing.

[Raúl Duke]

wipe out the micro-bourgeois scum
pre-emptive sneak attack

[Comrade Jandar]

Hold on a minute. This micro-nation was a kingdom at some point? A real monarchy?

[Raúl Duke]

First question I have, is this real life or some sort of elaborate LARP?

Buying the land is a non-issue if it doesn't have a practical use. If it does, then buy it. But buying it for recognition by some bourgeois micro-nations is silly for an alleged anarchist micro-nation. Use that money for your 3 wars.

Blow up that panzer might demoralize your enemies...

Are these real wars...with guns and the possibility of death?

[hatzel]

First question I have, is this real life or some sort of elaborate LARP?

Indeed the two have become indistinguishable in our times; we speak here only of hyperreality...

[Hermes]

The thing is that the land really isn't, at least not by us. Yes, an Anarchist micronation. I'm not going to tell you which one or reveal too many details about it because I've no interest in meeting you creepy RevLefters or the cops reading this (Go eat your donuts and bother someone else). ;)


It's half fake, I believe. I know it's made with some legitimate parts, but it's meant for intimidation only. I doubt it moves. Here, as long as you aren't caught no one cares if you have a 'tank'. Besides, it's a small country. It has the right to have such things.


No. I live in a micro-nation surrounded by the U.S. It's like Lesotho. Yes, there is a pesky country trying to invade us and steal our grain, literally. You don't hear about it on the macro-national tele because it would legitimize us, I suppose, or give us support, and we Anarchists are supposed to all be fifteen year old punks without organizational capability. It would make such a good program though, if some network covered inter-micro-national news. What is so 'da fok' about it?

This is probably a fairly ignorant question, so forgive me in advance.

I can only assume that the two micro-nations you're speaking of (including yours) are bordering each other, correct? It would seem odd, at least to me, to see people carrying guns through some recognized country such as the US to get to another micro-nation to fight a war.

If that's true, what are your differences? Wouldn't it be better to band together rather than to wage a war over food (I guess I'm assuming here that both micro-nations are Anarchist, and now I'm rethinking that, is that true)? Or would the problem be that you're only capable of providing for so many people?

[electrostal]

Sealands are not real counties and "communes" are dumb.

[citizen of industry]

http://katymunger.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/twilight-zone.jpg

Kind of reminds me of Animal Farm a little bit. You sound like an agrarian federation, not an industrially developed one. Tough situation. If you have a food surplus you could institute some "market-socialism" and sell it on the market, then use the funds to purchase the means to defend yourself adequately.

[Zav]

So are you being invaded by the US or are you being invaded by another micro nation, you're confusing me here. The "da fok" is directed at the general situation. First you've tried to set up a legit nation within the US and you are also being attacked by another micro nation trying to do the same thing.
We are being invaded by another micronation, not by the U.S. I suppose it is a bit alien to consider that there are thousands of nations within the U.S. and a compex web of relations between them. Well, now you know.


Hold on a minute. This micro-nation was a kingdom at some point? A real monarchy?
Yes it was. We had a rotating monarchy which evolved from a long series of coups. There were royal families, parades, coronations, titles, land claims (and sea and space claims), official documents, a crown and throne, castles and palaces (albeit small), subjects, coats of arms, stamps, coins, and bills, and everything else. We became a federation in the early aughts.


First question I have, is this real life or some sort of elaborate LARP?
Buying the land is a non-issue if it doesn't have a practical use. If it does, then buy it. But buying it for recognition by some bourgeois micro-nations is silly for an alleged anarchist micro-nation. Use that money for your 3 wars.
Blow up that panzer might demoralize your enemies...
Are these real wars...with guns and the possibility of death?
It is legitimate. In the early days it actually was a LARP, though we didn't call it that. It has been getting progressively more serious.
The thing is that the nation selling the land is well-known. We want the recognition so that we can form alliances with other micro-nations of a Leftist persuasion and higher tier.
We have thought of more subtle sabotage, but that would work too. Such things attract too much attention however, so we won't be doing that.
Most inter-micro-national warfare is not serious. In our case they literally want our food because they suck at farming. Some micronations are fully armed. There have been no known deaths, and we (the serious micronational community) want to keep it that way so as to not ruin the fun for the non-serious micro-nationalists and avoid macro-national intervention (which would be like Homo erectus versus the entire Dalek army). Also many of us seceded because of inter-macro-national war.


This is probably a fairly ignorant question, so forgive me in advance.
I can only assume that the two micro-nations you're speaking of (including yours) are bordering each other, correct? It would seem odd, at least to me, to see people carrying guns through some recognized country such as the US to get to another micro-nation to fight a war.
If that's true, what are your differences? Wouldn't it be better to band together rather than to wage a war over food (I guess I'm assuming here that both micro-nations are Anarchist, and now I'm rethinking that, is that true)? Or would the problem be that you're only capable of providing for so many people?
You are forgiven. All questions are made in ignorance. That is the point of a question.
We are close to each other, but there is a fairly wide band of America between us. It is not so unusual. The U.S. does it all the time.
They are a Fascist monarchy. We would give them our surplus food, but the local homeless need it more. They aren't starving or suffering from malnutrition, but they have to import almost everything from the U.S.


Sealands are not real counties and "communes" are dumb.
I don't know what 'sealands' are. Do you mean such places as the Bering Strait or Doggerland? No, they aren't counties. They would need to belong to a nation to have administrative divisions. I was unaware that a small grassroots organization had intelligence nor that they had less intelligence than other forms of organization.
I know what you meant, and fuck you. Those aren't arguments.

[Susurrus]

I don't know what 'sealands' are.

This is THE Sealand

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DQHjOfi192s/Tf-GC7bwZLI/AAAAAAAABCU/XSnS0FDZv8g/s1600/sealand-09.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

and as a matter of fact electrostal, it is very much a country.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Yeah I've never heard of that before. Is there material out there on the Internet to read concerning these micro-nations?

[Zav]

This is THE Sealand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
and as a matter of fact electrostal, it is very much a country.
I know what Sealand is, just not what 'sealands' are. ;)


Yeah I've never heard of that before. Is there material out there on the Internet to read concerning these micro-nations?
The Wikipedia article is a good start.
You might try either of the two Microwikis for information on specific micro-nations:
microwiki.org.uk/ (http://www.revleft.com/vb/microwiki.org.uk/)
http://micronations.wikia.com
Many micro-nations have websites you could read.
There is a documentary called How to Start Your Own Country which details the founding of Lovely.

[Raúl Duke]

As I look at the wiki...my creeping suspicion that all this is, is just one elaborate LARP, seems closer to reality.

I mean...a population of 6 or 4 or 2 is barely anything...
although maybe it depends on the micro-nation in question.

[Zav]

As I look at the wiki...my creeping suspicion that all this is, is just one elaborate LARP, seems closer to reality.

I mean...a population of 6 or 4 or 2 is barely anything...
although maybe it depends on the micro-nation in question.
It really does depend on the individual micro-nation. Some are only online, and some are as serious as any macro-nation with hundreds or thousands of citizens.
We're part of what is called the fifth world. The first world is the U.S. and its allies, the second world is the former U.S.S.R. and its allies, and the third world are the impoverished billions at the bottom of Capitalism. The fourth world includes unrecognized nations that still meet the terms of the Montevideo Convention, like Palestine and tribal groups. The fifth world includes the serious micronations like Sealand and Molossia, the sixth world includes the half-serious and very new micro-nations, and the seventh world is the non-serious micro-nations a la NationStates and various RP groups. There isn't an eighth world, but I suppose if one were to be recognized it would be individual stateless people.

[The Douche]

Man, I really wish this thread did not exist.

[Zav]

Man, I really wish this thread did not exist.
Is there any particular reason or are you just living up to your name?

[The Douche]

Is there any particular reason or are you just living up to your name?

Bit of both?


Sorry if I offend you by not taking this seriously (though I'm sure you're used to people laughing at you when you call your D&D gamers club a "nation"), but I haven't been on the board for a little while cause I needed a break, and this is not the kind of stuff I was hoping to come back to.

Carry on though.

[Raúl Duke]

Back to the original question; I say only buy the extra land if it's going to some use of some sort. If it's purely for reputation purposes, that's a lame purpose. Who cares what other micro-nations think.

Now about this war, I assume you should play it defensively (although blowing up their faux-panzer I still think will be a great and humorous idea). You can't just let some "fascist-monarchists" or whatever just take your food (or whatever). So this defensive war effort thing is more important than some land. On the other "war" fronts it's relative, I mean the land could be used to provide them material support to your allies (I'm assuming you're fighting the other 2 wars because of your allies) but this may mean diverting more man-power back to the homeland instead of to "fight."

Now whether it's "nationalistic" or "bourgeois" to acquire land...not exactly. If you need it and want it go get it, as long as your people decide on this democratically.

In the end though, I'm still perplexed to the point of it all unless that point is to have fun and even than I wonder if this is a fun activity or not.

[ed miliband]

wtf is this?

[hatzel]

wtf is this?

Fun for all the family.

[Zav]

Bit of both?
Sorry if I offend you by not taking this seriously (though I'm sure you're used to people laughing at you when you call your D&D gamers club a "nation"), but I haven't been on the board for a little while cause I needed a break, and this is not the kind of stuff I was hoping to come back to.
Carry on though.
Apparently it's the latter. You apologize for possible offense, and then intentionally commit it. This is serious shit here.


Back to the original question; I say only buy the extra land if it's going to some use of some sort. If it's purely for reputation purposes, that's a lame purpose. Who cares what other micro-nations think.

Now about this war, I assume you should play it defensively (although blowing up their faux-panzer I still think will be a great and humorous idea). You can't just let some "fascist-monarchists" or whatever just take your food (or whatever). So this defensive war effort thing is more important than some land. On the other "war" fronts it's relative, I mean the land could be used to provide them material support to your allies (I'm assuming you're fighting the other 2 wars because of your allies) but this may mean diverting more man-power back to the homeland instead of to "fight."

Now whether it's "nationalistic" or "bourgeois" to acquire land...not exactly. If you need it and want it go get it, as long as your people decide on this democratically.

In the end though, I'm still perplexed to the point of it all unless that point is to have fun and even than I wonder if this is a fun activity or not.
It's a status issue. Yeah, the half of us who don't want to buy the land said pretty much that.

Of course we can't let them simply take our shit. If the war and the land were of equal cost, then I would agree. To place the defense of the nation below alliance prospects would be foolish, and reminds me of the fall of Anarchist Catalonia for some reason.

The point is to have a model Anarchist nation as an example of grassroots Revolution. Some people have fun with micro-nationalism, and we do fun stuff now and then, but it hasn't been a game for years.

[Welshy]

Go over to their place, set fire to their crops, sabotage the tank and leave a message on brick thrown through their window telling them to not fuck with you.

[ed miliband]

The point is to have a model Anarchist nation as an example of grassroots Revolution. Some people have fun with micro-nationalism, and we do fun stuff now and then, but it hasn't been a game for years.

pretty sure kropotkin said something about this sort of... i don't even know... in 'conquest of the bread'.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Sounds like fruitless adventure politics. To some people revolutionary leftism is a role-playing game.