Is a untied capitalist europe possible?

[Blanquist]

Is it possible to unite them into a US-style federation, one currency, one europeon army etc?

Or is disintegration the only possible way forward?

[Lynx]

If it were possible they would have done it by now.

[Book O'Dead]

Is it possible to unite them into a US-style federation, one currency, one europeon army etc?

Or is disintegration the only possible way forward?

Given the anarchic nature of capitalism and the existence of regional antagonisms, a real European union is highly unlikely.

[JPSartre12]

I'd say that we're probably going to see the European Union become a "United States of Europe", for all intents and purposes. Ever since Hollande's been elected in France, Merkel's been talking about them all coming closer together and "integrating" their economies.

Whether the collective EU supports austerity or stimulus doesn't matter; the point is that the EU is becoming more centralized. I'd wager on the EU getting closer to a federation-style continental superstate than it would to dissolving the EU and each country being completely sovereign again.

In this age where technology brings us all together and the European economies are already so interconnected, I see them moving closer together, not farther away from one another.

[Lynx]

The wealthier countries would have to agree to some form of equalization, as in Canada, between the provinces and territories. Austerity isn't compatible with this approach.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Is it possible to unite them into a US-style federation, one currency, one europeon army etc?

Or is disintegration the only possible way forward?

There are two ways for the Currency Union to go: Continuation and Disintegration or a Federal Europe. If Europe goes into a Federation, it has to do it immediately because the needed funds to equalise the European economies are going to be quite expensive. If you want my opinion, i think Germany will soon go into crisis and lenders will start asking Germany for higher lending rates leading to Europe going into a massive crash... that's if the current political situation continues.

[Sanja]

I think Europe can't be united because there are many differences between countries. Even the European Union won't survive (in my opinion).....

[piet11111]

Only when the Germans give up their bank account and the French their sovereignty.

I wouldn't hold my breath for this one.

[A Marxist Historian]

Is it possible to unite them into a US-style federation, one currency, one europeon army etc?

Or is disintegration the only possible way forward?

Certainly it can happen. Happened during WWII, under Hitler.

But that's the only way it could happen, namely the strongest European country, still Germany, conquering all the others and turning them into oppressed nations groaning under the German heel.

That's what Merkel is trying to do with Greece "peaceably," and given Greek weakness and the desperation of the Greek bourgeoisie this is not altogether impossible I suppose.

But no way can Germany give the Greek treatment to France and Italy and the UK and so forth. Never happen.

Peacefully unifying Europe is absolutely impossible, as has just been graphically demonstrated in practice.

-M.H.-

[ckaihatsu]

Jesus, it's downright charming and quaint how everyone is expressing such concern and encouragement over the *politics* of the bosses' European Union -- I guess everyone's just plainly forgotten that this is an *economic* matter, and that, being on the top of the world, there's *no fucking regulation* over who gets to "slip" a little on their parameters and commitments to the agreements of the Maastrict Treaty, etc....

But it's all a wash anyway, because, despite the counter-revolutionary nature of this thread's title, no amount of political willpower can see this through.... You'd think that revolutionaries would be busting out the champagne at this point, but go figure....

[Lynx]

Seems to me the title of this thread has changed :confused:
(My answer is now Yes)

By all means, break out the bubbly, but save your best vintage.

[Bostana]

That will never happen simply because none of them can get along with eachother

[DrZaiu5]

It's pretty unlikely. Nationalism is still strong in many parts of Europe. I highly doubt that the people of Britain, for example, would be willing to surrender their sovereignty. If it did eventually happen then nationalist parties would most likely gain support all over Europe.

[ckaihatsu]

I'm reminded of the surprise induced in certain conquered peoples (sorry, no footnotes) when they learned that the white Western nations that were conquering them were themselves at war back home in Europe in like fashion as the native tribes being conquered in the "New World"....