W. Virginia Coal Miners Struggle

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Great documentary from Vice here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvKe2LYy5pk). These workers are very class conscious, all that is needed is organisation. Really great footage. Discuss

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

@11:40 it is quite demonstrative of the workers' situation.

[Magón]

Mingo County has always been a hotbed for people against the Coal industry, in West Virginia. "Wars" have been fought between striking coal workers, and the scabs/authorities before in the 1910s, 20s, 30s, etc.

I wouldn't base this one part of their outlook on things, as being very class conscious though either. They may not like how these rich company men are using them, and forcing them into these coal jobs (like the miners say at the bar), even though it's killing their families, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're for a Socialist/Communist uprising of some kind, against the coal companies.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Mingo County has always been a hotbed for people against the Coal industry, in West Virginia. "Wars" have been fought between striking coal workers, and the scabs/authorities before in the 1910s, 20s, 30s, etc.

I wouldn't base this one part of their outlook on things, as being very class conscious though either. They may not like how these rich company men are using them, and forcing them into these coal jobs (like the miners say at the bar), even though it's killing their families, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're for a Socialist/Communist uprising of some kind, against the coal companies.

Why not?

[Magón]

Why not?

Because if we based our idea of people like them being "very" class conscious, then that means there are plenty of other people in the US, who you might not otherwise think so, as being so, but really aren't.

Just because someone says they're anti-this corporation, doesn't make them suddenly very class conscious, and people you can look to for an example of class conscious. Liberals are anti-this corporation, but would you really consider them very class conscious like you would someone on here? There are tons of Environmentalists who are anti-Big Coal, anti-this corporation, yet have sickening social views when it comes to things like immigration, welfare, etc. that no sane Leftist "Revolutionary", would consider a good thing or think they're class conscious.

Think false positives.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Because if we based our idea of people like them being "very" class conscious, then that means there are plenty of other people in the US, who you might not otherwise think so, as being so, but really aren't.

Just because someone says they're anti-this corporation, doesn't make them suddenly very class conscious, and people you can look to for an example of class conscious. Liberals are anti-this corporation, but would you really consider them very class conscious like you would someone on here? There are tons of Environmentalists who are anti-Big Coal, anti-this corporation, yet have sickening social views when it comes to things like immigration, welfare, etc. that no sane Leftist "Revolutionary", would consider a good thing or think they're class conscious.

Think false positives.

I see what you mean, but holding reactionary views doesn't have anything to do with class consciousness imo. The thing missing here is simply organisation of the workers and getting them to see the universality of their struggle.

[Magón]

I see what you mean, but holding reactionary views doesn't have anything to do with class consciousness imo. The thing missing here is simply organisation of the workers and getting them to see the universality of their struggle.

It does though. Plenty of Republicans, Fundamentalists of all nature, Fascists, etc., understand that there's dividing classes known as Upper Class, Middle Class, Lower Class, yet I wouldn't think anyone would consider them class conscious in the sense of what class conscious actually means today in Leftist circles. Leftists don't consider the majority of the Working Class itself, to be class conscious, and plenty of the Working Class holds reactionary views, even against themselves.

If that wasn't the case, then everyone would be class conscious already, and we'd only be wasting our time thinking people aren't class conscious.

There's more missing in West Virginia than just organization, there's the whole revolutionary mindset/thinking, that's missing.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Yes, that of course too, but they are aware of the class antagonisms, the outreaches of the mining companies (Capital). For the masses to get to a revolutionary mindset it takes agitation, education and organisation of already revolutionary minded workers.

[Magón]

I think you're putting too much hope, and raising these people on too high of a pedestal, than they should be. The doc. is a good one, Vice does do good documentaries, but this one just shows one side of these coal miners, leaving the other sides untouched. That's because the focus of the doc. is meant to be about the effects that the coal companies have on these people, not their entire ways of life, and what they think of other things in the world. You can't base a person on just a single side of them in some doc.

Yes, it's great that they're fighting in whatever way they feel they can, against these mining companies who are slowly killing them and their families, while holding them where they are because of the money they make, but really what other evidence do you have to support your claim that these people in West Virginia coal country are so forward in their thinking, as you claimed in the OP, that if any sort of radical leftist came to organize them, they wouldn't laugh him/her away, saying they're not what they're about?

Who's to say that after laughing off that radical leftist, they wouldn't turn around and take the word of some silver tongued Republican? Because they mentioned how "Redneck" came from those trying to unionize back in the 1900s, wearing red scarfs on their necks? I don't think so.

And to just point out, there are plenty of people who are aware of class antagonisms. In the Occupy Movement, you can't help but step on someone who isn't aware of class antagonisms. But going deeper into their thinking and knowing, you'll find they're just as ignorant and fixed to their way of thinking, as any Republican. These people are known as Left leaning Liberals, and if you met one and spent time with him/her, you'd find they're not as revolutionary or forward thinking as you think these people in West Virginia are.

[campesino]

workers everywhere hate being treated like shit, that is the basis of class struggle.

@Magon
why do you think these workers are social conservatives, is it because of the stereotype of racist poor whites.I've met many poor whites and many are not racist or even so against abortion. Any worker who realizes capitalism is the problem and seeks non-democratic means of its overthrow is class conscious (Even if they were to hold reactionary social views). These workers are not class conscious yet, but they are certainly on their way to becoming class conscious.

[Magón]

I've met poor whites before, who aren't conservatives at all, who are radical leftists, but that has nothing to do with why I think these people are socially conservative. The reason I think these people are though, is because I've read and seen other things on West Virginia coal country, that've gone deeper than the Vice doc., that have explored the people deeper than just what the whole focus was about, and a lot of them were socially conservative.

A lot of them felt that things like Big Coal, were equal to that of Big Government, which I'm sure you know Republicans and Tea Partiers are always going on about. In one doc. I watched a couple years back, one of them had a picture of Bush II hanging next to their picture of Jesus.

So no, my basis for thinking these people aren't the best example for being class conscious, doesn't come from some stereotype, but from a wider view than just a single doc. which says little of anything on their personal politics.

[erupt]

Religion plays a large part in Appalachian society, which would clash with most Leftist ideals.

However, in the early 19th Century, nationalism was the divider. Not only was it racially divided, it was divided via nationality.

Even though it's "Hollywoodified," the movie Matewan illustrates much of the problems faced by the workers.

I live in coal n' steel country, and a lot of the people have a mish-mash of views; it's a melting-pot of ideas as much as different types of people. Honestly, a lot of the people are class-conscious while holding on to religious tolerance for others.