Israeli Politics

[Sheep87]

What are your views on Israeli politics? Israel is quite the liberal nation with concepts such as the "Kibbutz" which is communistic in nature. Also, which side do you guy support in struggle over land. I personally support Israel and I believe "Palestine" is a name given to the Jews land of Israel when the Romans invaded it. "Palestinians" are misplaced Jordianians in my book. If they dont accept the fact that they cannot have whatever they want by just blowing children up with bombs strapped to their chest then I think ANOTHER security fence needs to go up and those people should be shipped back over the river to Jordan where they belong.

[gawkygeek]

i think that the israelis started out on the good fight but then when they simply took the land of the other arab countries and occupied it, now i use that word very lightly because its not so much occupation as it is annexation, they populated it with their ppl. in the name of security they occupied that land, even then they tottered on the border of not being wrong, but then they settled in those areas which totaly discredits them for their reasons of occupation. another problem i have with them is the manner in which they over react to terrorist attacks. they take the US supplied planes and fly at mach speed over palestinian settlements letting the sonic boom echo thru the streets pounding thru the ears of the innocent ppl of these cities, they have also crossed the line many times in capture and detainment of prisoners...but there is already a thread on that so i'll leave it be.

[Sheep87]

1) When you refer to the occupied lands of "Other Countries" I assume you are refering to Egypt and Syria during the 6 day war in which the president of Egypt Gamal Nasser ordered the "Destruction of Israel." They occupied the land after that war for national security WHICH they eventually gave up almost all of.

2) As far as over reacting every time a Palestinian bombs an Israeli bus (20 people dead or so) the death-population ratio is equivalent to that of September 11th in America. Hmmm... Overreacting really?

[gawkygeek]

1-they settled territory that they claimed to be occupying in need of security, how can u possibly justify that, its agains all international law!

2-they aren't attacking the attackers, they are attacking the innocent by plauging them with constant sonic booms, they send missiles to places merely suspected to be terrorist training camps, had these methods been successful, they may be somewhat justifiable, but unfortunately the bombings continue

[(*]

What are your views on Israeli politics?

I think the Israeli politicians use deceptive tactics to garner support, and hide the horrendous crimes they continue to perpetrate against the palestinians.


which side do you guy support in struggle over land'

The palestinians.


"Palestinians" are misplaced Jordianians in my book

Actually, the jews are (were) misplaced. Also, Jordan never existed before.


I think ANOTHER security fence needs to go up and those people should be shipped back over the river to Jordan where they belong.

I think any such fence should't exist. They have not worked in the past, and will not work now.



2) As far as over reacting every time a Palestinian bombs an Israeli bus (20 people dead or so) the death-population ratio is equivalent to that of September 11th in America. Hmmm... Overreacting really?

There are more dead palestinians than israelis



your username is very fitting. You definitely are a sheep.

[Sheep87]

So soon to resort to name calling are we?

Back to the issue.

Do not forget who is attacking who. Every single war since Britain gave Israel to the Jews has been started by the Arabs. Not just "Palestinians" neighboring Arab countries.

"Palestinian have more dead than Israelis"

As yourself honestly whos fault that is.

Is not stepping onto a bus and blowing yourself along with 20 innocent people a horrendous crime? And didnt you just contradict your argument by saying they (were) misplaced?

[(*]

So soon to resort to name calling are we?

Believe me. I was not name calling


Is not stepping onto a bus and blowing yourself along with 20 innocent people a horrendous crime? And didnt you just contradict your argument by saying they (were) misplaced?

I would be, If I believed that Israel shoud not exist. However, that is not what I believe. Both should exist as countries. 50-50 of the original british mandate.




"Palestinian have more dead than Israelis"

As yourself honestly whos fault that is.

you answer can be partly found in this next quote of yours..


Britain gave Israel to the Jews

[Inti]

According to the Jewish holy text or whatever its said that the Jews arent permitted to have an own country.. Thats it..

Btw I think that US should give the palestinians weapons too so that they and the Israelis can fight on equal terms. The fanatics in Palestine they dont have the equipment to go out a full scale war, hence they are attacking by the means they have.. I dont think its a good way going suicide bombing, but they are desperate. The Israelis have their tanks, choppers and other weapons recieved from the happy US, so they dont have to suicide bomb theirselves..

[Sheep87]

So horrendous crimes on ones enemy are okay so long as you hate them enough? lol... Sounds like a revolutionary I've heard of... What was his name?

[Sheep87]

Oh yeah, as for the 50-50 mandate I do believe it was the Arabs who rejected this if I am not mistaken. You know after it was proclaimed when they started attacking Jewish settlements?

Even in the recent years they have been given a chance for their own state yet they still refuse. THey are blinded by zealous hatred and will not stop until every Jew is dead. I fully support a Palestinian state but it seems thats not good enough for them.

[gawkygeek]

I would be, If I believed that Israel shoud not exist. However, that is not what I believe. Both should exist as countries. 50-50 of the original british mandate

i too believe in coexistance but a 50/50 would not serve well the growth rate of the palestinian ppl that would lead to more agression.

im starting to think that the only way they might have a chance is if they have a coalition government of all the peoples of the area...but im not too confident thats possible

[Sheep87]

Considering all the neighboring nations are Arab and also considering Israel is the only democracy in the middle east I do not think your coalition would be too effective.

[gawkygeek]

i did say it probably would be highly difficult to get to work but it has the highest potential and greatest liklihood of a lasting peace

[(*]

The first step towards peace would be dismantling hamas (et al), and Israel relinquishing a large part of its military might.

BTW, I do consider the death of innocent israelis a horrendous crime. This of course does not include settlers (because they are not innocent).


*edit* In reference to the 50-50 split

The original proposed plan was a Jewish state (56.47% of the land) for 498,000 jews and 320,000 arabs.
and a arab state (43.53% of the land) for 807,000 arabs and 10,000 jews.

I don't think the 2 states (in a 50-50 situation) should show any preference towards ethnicity or religion.

[Sheep87]

LOL! Israel relinquishing some military might? Have you ever even glanced at the conflicts between Israel and its neighbors in the last 50 years? To do that is to invite not only an invasion of but the destruction of Israel.

[gawkygeek]

we are talking about the now, not the past 50 years, the surrounding arab nations have weakened drasticly while israels might has grown ever stronger

[Dingo]

I stand firmly with the palastines... Isreal does has illeagly occupied a sovergin nation, which untill just before world war one, was the pride of the arib culture... Britian had no right to give that nation to anyone, they promised the same thing to both the Isrealis and The Palastiniens.... Isrealis just had a better case 50 years latter when the death camps were found.
When the intifadia happend and the Palastineans rebelled against their opressors the facts came out... For example Palastinean familys normaly have to survive off one gallon of water a week... Isrealis control the damn that gives them this water... Also you need go no further then the evening news to know how corrupt their and out goverment is, look at the reports comeing from that region. A:) the Isreali dead are allways counted B) they always conter strike in the middle of a populated area C) Palastinean deaths are not counted D) The force they use is allways exessive... and last but not least E) american news never reports the AMERICAN causuiltys (yes they happen alot) for instence does anyone remeber when the UN despached team was killed by a remote bomb, did you hear anything else about it....
Well that is beacuse I looks strongly like the Isrealis are responsable, beacuse that group was reporting to the world the conditions the palastinean people live under and their job was to start the process of equalizing the liveing conditions of the two people.
One last point their PM Areal sharon is a convicted War criminal... the only one to be found guilty in a Isreali court.. he is responsable for the deaths of a entire Palastinean refugee camp. His only punishment was to be removed from his postion and Minister of Defense, and to never have position of power again in the Isreali goverment

[Dingo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2003, 04:12 AM
Oh yeah, as for the 50-50 mandate I do believe it was the Arabs who rejected this if I am not mistaken. You know after it was proclaimed when they started attacking Jewish settlements?

Even in the recent years they have been given a chance for their own state yet they still refuse. THey are blinded by zealous hatred and will not stop until every Jew is dead. I fully support a Palestinian state but it seems thats not good enough for them.
Actually when Isreal was created illegaly btw, acording to the Geniva convention.... the Palstiean goverment had to have a majority vote to allow the nation to exist... and it actually came close but failed... before the UN went ahead and made Isreal anyway the Palastieans offered to house the jews as a protected people...
They refuse the Palastinean state for two reasons... yes they are zelots, so are the Zionists, who run Isreal. The second reason is beacuse they only let them have the land Isrealis haven't gotten around to captureing yet. They want Jeruslam as much as the Jews, it is just as importent to them... I believe they need to go back to the land policy they started with, right down the middle... and Jerusalm is a international city...
I don't remeber who said it but someone said it has always been the Arabs to start the fight, well technicly they are the ones to show open agression... but Isreal sabatoges, commits esponage, and all sorts of acts of war on the Arab nations... say I were to poke you in the head, not hard mind you... but I did it long enough tell you hit me in the nose which I deserve... then I told the cop you just flew off the handle and hit me.. cop believe me and you go to jail... simplyfied a thousand times that is what Isreal does...

[redstar2000]

Sheep87, your views clearly belong in Opposing Ideologies. Please keep them there.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[The Feral Underclass]

Lets keep the bible and holy text out of this please. It has absolutly nothing to do with it. This is a political issue which has already been resolved. however the israelis do not see it like that. Regardless of the countless UN resolutions denying them the right to occupy palestine they continue to do so. Regardless of the UN resolution that specifically prohibits them building a fence they still continue to do it.

That land that is occupied at the moment is palestinian land. They have no right to be there. This isnt taking into account that the lands now claimed to be Palestine have greatly decreased since 1948 and 1967. the Israeli right wing are not conent with the lands they have been given and are now using the suicide bombings as a pretext to occupy palestine....

You talk about terrorism from the palestinains, but what about Israeli terrorism. It seems to be perfectly acceptable if you have tanks, soldiers with uniforms, guns and battle planes and helicopters. it gives you an air of legitimacy. unfortunatly the palestinians dont have the U$ to support them and so have to resort to throwing stones and suicide bombings...I am not condoning the suicide bombings against innocent people, but let us talk about jenin. The mindless carnage perpetrated by the Israeli "security" foces against innocent civilians civilians goes unchecked. The murder of journalists and activists from other countries goes on all the time and then is denied by the authorities, only to be admitted again when the evidence can not be denied. I do not agree that the palestinians should murder innocent israelis in response but until the Israeli army withdraws from palestine unconditonally and stops killing innocent civilians with their oh so legitamate tanks then the bombings are not going to stop.

The right wing justify this occupation as a cause of national security, complely ignoring the fact they are occupying someones country...what should they do. Are you saying they should quitly obey the israelis. Soldiers who refuse to allow pregnant women who are giving birth through road blocks because it isnt the right time of day. The palestianians are treated like second class citizens in their own country and are beaten back, oppressed, arrested and imprisioned without trial if they dare to oppose the occupation. Watch John Pilgers documentry on palestine...then you will see what these israelis soldiers are actually about...And it isnt protecting israeli!

Ariel Sharon is an indicted war criminal for fuck sake. This vendetta against the palestinians is decades old...he is simply doing what he has always wanted to do. Murder and destroy the palestianians and their homland...Remarkably like hitler wanted to do not so long ago...And yes, I am comparing Sharon with hitler, only this time the tyrant is backed by the U$!!!

FREE PALESTINE!

[Invader Zim]

Isreal does has illeagly occupied a sovergin nation, which untill just before world war one, was the pride of the arib culture...

Wrong, there has been no actual Palestinian state for centuries, before WW1 it was part of the Ottoman Empire and had been since the early 1500's.

If you want to talk about Israel being an illegitimate state, then you logically must think that all the nations formed by the peace makers of Versailles must be illegitimate, so lets go off and give Alsask – Lorraine (sp) back to the Germans, abolish Poland and destroy the check republic, ohh and while were at it scrap Jordan.

Britian had no right to give that nation to anyone,

I don’t think that the province of Palestine has been a sovereign nation for at least 2000 year's. I could be wrong, but it has defiantly not been a sovereign nation for 500 years. So it is wrong to call it a nation, because its not. The question is "should Palestine become a nation", the answer is an obvious no, what *should* happen is they live together as a single nation with equal rights and political power. Creating a new nation will simply add to the already escalating problems.


Apart from that I agree with you, Israel is a corrupt state, and perhaps should not exist. But it does, and to change that now would be worse than keeping the Palestinians in their current condition.

[Intifada]

free palestine from israeli terrorism!!!!

end the occupation!!!!

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2003, 09:35 AM
...which untill just before world war one, was the pride of the arib culture...
You must be as deluded as your grammar! Sovereign land? Pride of the arab culture?! Before Israel was granted that land it was nothing but scrub brush and sand! Nobody was interested in it! Now that the Israelis worked it into a striving country, the arabs want it back? I don't think so son! Besides, the Israelis have been attacked PLENTY of times by its neighbors and have managed to consistently kick their asses back to the stone age. Ever heard "to the victor go the spoils"? Nah...they best keep their military lest they get blown back into the sea!

As for these palestinian savages, I USED to sympathize for them. I actually championed their cause and rooted for them! But there's something very disturbing about seeing palestinian women and children dance in the streets as both the WTC buildings came down! I don't know about you...but THIS turned the tide of my anti-Israeli, pro-palestinian stand. Now I see them as sub-human animals. Blind individuals, willing to do ANYTHING for allah. They could have accepted countless peace-treaties/land-deals, but their disgusting greed and blind faith has overpowered their single celled brains! How long will it take for them to comprehend that if you STOP bombing buses, you just may get what you want now that the world has its eyes glued to Israel's every move?! Hammas has stated time and time again that they will NOT accept ANY negotiations with Israel..EVER, and that they will not stop until Israel is DESTROYED!!!

[(*]

Before Israel was granted that land it was nothing but scrub brush and sand!

Not true. People have been living there for centuries.



Besides, the Israelis have been attacked PLENTY of times by its neighbors and have managed to consistently kick their asses back to the stone age.

Jewish Immigrants were attacking the locals (Palestinians). Terrorist Groups like the Irgun (which is now the likud party) and lehi. were blowing up hotels and buses, as well as clearing palestinians of their land.



As for these palestinian savages, I USED to sympathize for them. I actually championed their cause and rooted for them! But there's something very disturbing about seeing palestinian women and children dance in the streets as both the WTC buildings came down! I don't know about you...but THIS turned the tide of my anti-Israeli, pro-palestinian stand. Now I see them as sub-human animals.

You have classified a whole group of people as being sub-human animals and savages. That is a shame, very bigoted. You base this all on a video clip of a few people celebrating...and that turns your entire view point... :rolleyes:
You must be a sucker for all types of propaganda then.

The same tragedy that america suffered on 9/11 is being committed by the Israelis against the palestinians courtesy of the United States government.

[(*]

You might find this interesting....other people celebrated as well...

News story - ABC news (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html)

[synthesis]

This is a bit tangential, but the Noam Chomsky's remark that anti-Arab racism has become the only "legitimate" racism still acceptable in mainstream American political rhetoric is one of the most important observations of our time; this has become more and more evident every day.

Anyways, no person is ever sub-human. The idea that anyone could harbor such a concept is revolting.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by (*@Dec 16 2003, 05:27 AM

Before Israel was granted that land it was nothing but scrub brush and sand!

Not true. People have been living there for centuries.


Not true. People have been living there for centuries.

Umm actually he's right, the population was only around 100 thousand in the early 1900's, and I remember reading that it was described by an explorer as a lump of desert and swamp.

[(*]

Ummm, how is he right if 100 thousand people were there?

Do you have a source for that figure?

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by (*@Dec 16 2003, 10:10 PM
Ummm, how is he right if 100 thousand people were there?

Do you have a source for that figure?
Well considering that it has now got a population of around 6.5 million... 100K doesn't seem to be that much.

If you want the source find the other threadon this discussion, because the source was there and I cant be bothered to research again.

[Xvall]

Considering all the neighboring nations are Arab and also considering Israel is the only democracy in the middle east I do not think your coalition would be too effective.

Israel is far from a democratic nation. Especially when they have a leader declaring things such as:

"The rights to the land of Israel are Jewish exclusively."

Yeah. That's got equality written all over it. And those are some of the nicer things Sharon and Co. have said.


Wrong, there has been no actual Palestinian state for centuries

There was no literal 'state' ruling over the entire area, but Palestineans were there, and Palestinean communities existed. There was no literal Native American 'state' ruling over what is now the United States; this does not mean that the American occupation of those territories was excusable.

[Loknar]

The Palestinians (or so-called, they're friggin Arabs) have only their leadership to blame or their current situation. In 1948 they rejected the UN mandate. A large issue for them was the issue of the Negev desert, which Ben-Gurion offered to cede to the Arabs in exchange for peace but again it was rejected. Israel in it's history has been extremely reasonable. Instead of harboring resentment toward their neighbors they decided to make peace with them.


This is very simple. If the Palestinians want their own state then Arafat must stop terrorists from operating in the west bank and Gaza strip; it is as simple as that. Israel occupied the Golan Heights, Sinai Peninsula and he West bank in the 67 war. They have given most of those lands back to their original owners. if Israel wanted to annex those territories thy could have.


You guys want Israel to disarm, but why>? Why should they? They have been attacked and threatened countless times they have the right to defend them selves.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2003, 03:33 AM
1-they settled territory that they claimed to be occupying in need of security, how can u possibly justify that, its agains all international law!

2-they aren't attacking the attackers, they are attacking the innocent by plauging them with constant sonic booms, they send missiles to places merely suspected to be terrorist training camps, had these methods been successful, they may be somewhat justifiable, but unfortunately the bombings continue
1. Egypt and syria moth tried to take part of Israel and did. israel got it back and then some, that is war, they where attacked first, and they did almost give it all back. look at whar Staling did with ALL eastern europe? thats taking over.

2. what you said is retarded, killing innocent, and the people on the bus are not innocent, If Israel is killing innocent its by mistake while the terrorist palestinians do it on purpose.

[synthesis]

If Israel is killing innocent its by mistake while the terrorist palestinians do it on purpose.

Not quite true.

From the American State Terrorism website:

Zionist practitioners of the Hitlerian “Big Lie” strategy would have you believe that all the Israeli state terrorism of today is merely a reaction to Palestinian suicide bombings. They say that first the Palestinians started the suicide attacks for some perverse reason, though it was not at all in their self-interest, and only then did the “heroic” and “restrained” Israeli military react. That is a bald-faced lie.

Precisely the opposite is true. Anyone with even a little intelligence and honesty can see that the Israelis have the overwhelming power to be the aggressors, and that they are the aggressors. They are backed militarily, politically and financially by the world’s greatest superpower. They have billions of dollars worth of weapons, all paid for by American taxpayers. Not only do the Israelis have many state-of-the-art jet fighters, tanks and attack helicopters, they even have three submarines carrying missiles with nuclear warheads.

The latest Intifada began when the Israelis first provoked the Palestinians at the Al-Aqsa mosque, and then brutally, massively terrorized them with their powerful military. Suicide bombings are the desperate reactions of despairing individuals to this ongoing Israeli state terrorism.

On September 28, 2000, the evil old butcher, Ariel Sharon, made a well-planned, provocative little “visit” to the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem — accompanied by a thousand heavily-armed Israeli troops. (All authorized by Prime Minister Barak.) This touched off a spontaneous riot among the Palestinians who were there, during which six Palestinian people were shot dead by the Israelis.

Imagine Adolf Hitler paying a little visit to the Wailing Wall accompanied by a thousand Nazi storm troopers who then shoot dead six Jews, and you’ll get an idea of what this event meant to the long-suffering Palestinians.

[...]

So the Jewish Hitler’s Al-Aqsa ploy succeeded, and since September 2000 the sadistic Israeli Army (falsely named the Israeli “Defense” Forces), together with violent gangs of psychopathic Israeli thugs who call themselves “settlers”, have launched a massive state terror campaign, including several full-blown military assaults on the largely unarmed Palestinian people. The Israelis have slaughtered innocent people all over the West Bank and Gaza, with the biggest massacres so far occurring in Gaza and the Jenin refuge camp in the West Bank.

During this latest terror campaign the Israelis have brutally murdered over 2,180 people, as of this writing, including hundreds of children, and injured over 22,000, many severely.

Thousands of Palestinian people have suffered serious physical and/or neurological injuries requiring long-term health care, after having been shot or bombed by the Israelis. But the Israelis have surrounded all Palestinian villages and blocked all exits, refusing to allow those with severe injuries to get medical help outside.

That tiny minority of Palestinians in the militias and police forces who have guns have fought back, and many have died, while the others have only rocks to throw before they die, and a few, out of total despair, have become suicide bombers. They have two choices: live and die in freedom, or live for awhile as miserable slaves while being already dead inside.

“Live free or die!” said the men and women of the American Revolution. They would have understood the Palestinian people. But what the Palestinians have gone through, for over half-a-century now, is a thousand times more brutal.

Even so, I could never condone suicide attacks if they kill innocent civilian people. To murder innocent people is to lower oneself to the level of the Israelis. But I have no experience to compare with the level of hardship and suffering the Palestinian people are going through. We who live our sheltered lives in America have no idea. Unless we’ve been through something very similar, for as long a time, we can’t really fathom the depth and intensity of what the Palestinians feel.

Imagine, what would you do if a viciously racist foreign military force assaulted your town and slaughtered your children, your brothers, sisters, mother, maybe your father, grandfather, or grandmother, your husband, wife or your best friend? What if you saw the soldiers laugh after they blew up your sister, making fun of her bloody, disfigured face? What if they raped your brother’s wife after murdering her husband or father because he tried to stop them? What if you had to bury your six-month-old baby because an Israeli bullet ripped through its tiny little fragile body? What if they beat and tortured you and your father and brother, and sneered insults at you as they urinated on you?

All these things, and much more, the satanic Israelis have done. Again and again and again and again. For many decades, since long before you were born, if you’re a young Palestinian.

Can you really imagine what you would feel like? Would you even be strong enough to stay sane? And what if these filthy devils got away with it year after year after year, and it looked like the whole stinking world didn’t give a damn whether you lived or died? And these invaders had tanks and helicopter gunships and F-16 jets, and you had nothing but rocks. And they’ll shoot you if you throw it. They’ll shoot you if you don’t throw it. They’ll shoot you when you’re standing by your window or your front door. They’ll shoot you when you walk outside to get food at the store, even after they say they’ve lifted their curfew which has kept you starving inside cramped little rooms for days on end with scores of other hungry, suffering people. If you see a tank when you go out for food you’ll have to run back and hide, because the dirty Israeli cowards in that tank will murder you for the crime of being a Palestinian human being.

[(*]

Excellent post

[Intifada]

You guys want Israel to disarm, but why>? Why should they? They have been attacked and threatened countless times they have the right to defend them selves.

the palestinians are also thretened, daily, by israel's terrorism. they have a right to fight back and defend themselves too.

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by (*+Dec 16 2003, 05:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ((* @ Dec 16 2003, 05:27 AM) You have classified a whole group of people as being sub-human animals and savages.[/b]
So what you&#39;re saying is not ALL Americans are the same? Not all Capitalists are bad? Not all white people are devils? Not all conservatives are scum? Not all cops are pigs? Not all cops are unfair? Not all Americans hate Muslims? People that died in the WTC attack SHOULDN&#39;T have died at all?...................................

Before I continue...why don&#39;t you spread THAT to your beloved comrades on this board and your friends abroad that HATE the US&#33;&#33; Talk about BIGOTRY, you ALL should look inside YOURSELVES&#33; The contradiction around here is so thick its disgusting&#33;


(*@Dec 16 2003, 05:27 AM
You must be a sucker for all types of propaganda then.
And you as well&#33;

[(*]

Originally posted by CASTRO_SUCKS+Dec 19 2003, 11:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CASTRO_SUCKS @ Dec 19 2003, 11:15 AM)
Before I continue...why don&#39;t you spread THAT to your beloved comrades on this board and your friends abroad that HATE the US&#33;&#33; Talk about BIGOTRY, you ALL should look inside YOURSELVES&#33; The contradiction around here is so thick its disgusting&#33;

[/b]

So what you&#39;re saying is not ALL Americans are the same? Not all Capitalists are bad? Not all white people are devils? Not all conservatives are scum? Not all cops are pigs? Not all cops are unfair? Not all Americans hate Muslims? People that died in the WTC attack SHOULDN&#39;T have died at all?


Precisely.
You see, I have friends in the United States. Americans, white, conservative, and cops...amongst other things. I can&#39;t harbor such feelings of hatred about them. That is not who I am. I have never made any generalization about the people you mentioned up top. And I never said the people in the WTC should have been killed. Just because other here feel that, it does not mean I do.



(*@Dec 16 2003, 05:27 AM
You must be a sucker for all types of propaganda then.

And you as well&#33;

it begs the questions. What is truth? Who do you trust?

[Dingo]

Trust yourself, educate yourself... for those of us in the US, which I am by the way, not only that I am Texan for who that matters too... you must look outside the united states to hear the news on what is going on in the world or you won&#39;t learn anything... Americans have to learn our REAL history, not only what is taught in school, if you ever leave the country with just that and get in a argument then you are going to lose... Once you learn about what America does and how it treats other countries, you will understand... note I said understand not agree... why these other countries feel the way they do towards us... I had never really thought my immigrant parents would have had that much effect on me until I learned that the average American doesn&#39;t know that Ho Chie Mein once worked for the CIA before becoming the leader of NVC.