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View Full Version : It's the 21st century – why are we working so much?



bricolage
2nd July 2012, 15:20
If there's one thing practically all futurologists once agreed on, it's that in the 21st century there would be a lot less work. What would they have thought, if they had known that in 2012, the 9-5 working day had in the UK become something more like 7am to 7pm? They would surely have looked around and seen technology take over in many professions which previously needed heavy manpower, they would have looked at the increase in automation and mass production, and wondered – why are they spending 12 hours a day on menial tasks?

It's a question which isn't adequately answered either by the right or by the official left. Conservatives have always loved to pontificate about the moral virtue of hard work and much of the left, focusing on the terrible effects of mass unemployment, understandably gives "more jobs" as its main solution to the crisis. Previous generations would have found this hopelessly disappointing.

In almost all cases, utopians, socialists and other futurologists believed that work would come near to being abolished for one reason above all – we could let the machines do it. The socialist thinker Paul Lafargue wrote in his pointedly titled tract The Right To Be Lazy (1883):

"Our machines, with breath of fire, with limbs of unwearying steel, with fruitfulness wonderful inexhaustible, accomplish by themselves with docility their sacred labour. And nevertheless the genius of the great philosophers of capitalism remains dominated by the prejudices of the wage system, worst of slaveries. They do not yet understand that the machine is the saviour of humanity, the god who shall redeem man from working for hire, the god who shall give him leisure and liberty."

Oscar Wilde evidently agreed – in his 1891 essay The Soul of Man Under Socialism, he scorns the "nonsense that is written and talked today about the dignity of manual labour", and insists that "man is made for something better than distributing dirt. All work of that kind should be done by a machine". He makes quite clear what he means:

"Machinery must work for us in coal mines, and do all sanitary services, and be the stoker of steamers, and clean the streets, and run messages on wet days, and do anything that is tedious or distressing".

Both Lafargue and Wilde would have been horrified if they'd realised that only 20 years later manual work itself would become an ideology in Labour and Communist parties, dedicating themselves to its glorification rather than abolition.

Here too, though, the idea was that this would eventually be superseded. After the Russian revolution, one of the great advocates of the cult of work was Aleksei Gastev, a former metalworker and trade union leader who became a poet, publishing anthologies with titles like Poetry of the Factory Floor. He became the USSR's leading enthusiast for Taylorism, the American management technique usually criticised by the left for reducing the worker to a mere cog in a machine, running the state-sponsored Central Institute of Labour. When asked about this in 1926 by the German leftist Ernst Toller, Gastev replied: "We hope by our discoveries to arrive at a stage when a worker who formerly worked eight hours on a particular job will only have to work two or three". Somewhere along the line, this was forgotten, in favour of musclebound Stakhanovites performing superhuman feats of coal-hewing.

American industrial theorists, strangely enough, seemed to share the socialists' view. The designer, engineer and polymath Buckminster Fuller declared that the "industrial equation", ie the fact technology enables mankind to do "more with less", would soon eliminate the very notion of labour altogether. In 1963, he wrote: "[W]ithin a century, the word 'worker' will have no current meaning. It will be something you will have to look up in an early 20th-century dictionary". If that became true over the past 10 years, it was only in the "we are all middle class now" sense of New Labour – not in the sense of actually eliminating menial work, or the divide between workers and owners.

Surveys have long shown that most workers think their jobs are pointless, and looking at the heavily contested vacancies at the average jobcentre – call centre staff, filing clerks and above all the various tasks of the service industry – it's hard to disagree.

Yet the utopian vision of the elimination of industrial labour has in many ways come to pass. Over the past decade Sheffield steelworks produced more steel than ever before, with a tiny fraction of their former workforce; and the container ports of Avonmouth, Tilbury, Teesport and Southampton got rid of most of the dockers, but not the tonnage.

The result was not that dockers or steelworkers were free to, as Marx once put it, "hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon and criticise after dinner". Instead, they were subjected to shame, poverty, and the endless worry over finding another job, which, if it arrived, might be insecure, poorly paid, un-unionised work in the service industry. In the current era of casualisation, that's practically the norm, so the idea of skilled, secure labour and pride in work doesn't seem quite so awful. Nonetheless, the workers' movement was once dedicated to the eventual abolition of all menial, tedious, grinding work. We have the machines to make that a reality today – but none of the will.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/01/why-are-we-working-so-hard?CMP=twt_gu

Book O'Dead
2nd July 2012, 15:27
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/01/why-are-we-working-so-hard?CMP=twt_gu


I suppose that as long as workers' labor power remains a commodity its price will decline in opposite proportion to its capacity to create new values.

Only solution I can imagine is that labor must be emancipated from its relationship to capital.

Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant'
2nd July 2012, 15:32
"Surveys have long shown that most workers think their jobs are pointless, and looking at the heavily contested vacancies at the average jobcentre – call centre staff, filing clerks and above all the various tasks of the service industry – it's hard to disagree."

As a call centre staff member, I can whole-heartedly concur with that

shinjuku dori
2nd July 2012, 15:46
Because profit.

Positivist
2nd July 2012, 15:49
Capitalism needs consumers.

Book O'Dead
2nd July 2012, 15:59
Capitalism needs consumers.

That may be true but more fundamentally, capitalism needs workers because only they are capable of generating new values that accrue into profits and create capital.

The "consumer" came into existence as an ideological category at or about the opening of the 20th Century. And I think the "consumer" ideology solidified with Keynesian economic reforms.

Hit The North
2nd July 2012, 17:09
Not all consumers are workers but all workers are consumers. And as Marx points out, production is at the same time consumption.

Delenda Carthago
2nd July 2012, 19:08
Capitalism needs consumers.
Just consumers?

Delenda Carthago
3rd July 2012, 07:58
The other question our societies need to answer is this: we have today the biggest amount of wealth produced, why is it we have to live in such poverty?

Hit The North
3rd July 2012, 13:00
The other question our societies need to answer is this: we have today the biggest amount of wealth produced, why is it we have to live in such poverty?

Because the means of production and the products of our labour have been stolen from us.

Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages
3rd July 2012, 14:55
I was just thinking about this. I work IT and my responsibilities used to be taken care of by a team of 4 but now it's just me. I work 60 hours+ a week at this point and I still feel like I'm in a precarious position because I can't do everything we used to do, its insane. Weren't we all supposed to have flying cars and robot butlers at this point?

Delenda Carthago
3rd July 2012, 15:44
Because the means of production and the products of our labour have been stolen from us.
Dont tell me man, I know so. Tell your friend. Your classmate. Your neighbour. Your mom.

ckaihatsu
3rd July 2012, 16:08
Starting Alicebot Program D.
[9:58:18] Starting Charliebot version 4.1.8
[9:58:18] Using Java VM 20.0-b11 from Sun Microsystems Inc.
[9:58:18] On Linux version 2.6.38-8-generic (i386)

[...]

[9:58:44] Alicebot (c) 1995-2002 A.L.I.C.E. AI Foundation
[9:58:44] All Rights Reserved.
[9:58:44] This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
[9:58:44] modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
[9:58:44] as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
[9:58:44] of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
[9:58:44] Charliebot version 4.1.8 Build [00]

[...]

[9:58:47] Alice> Tell me about your likes and dislikes?
[9:58:47] [Alice] user> I really can't stand capitalism.

[9:59:01] Alice> You really do? Why can't you do it?
[9:59:01] [Alice] user> It's the long hours. I just can't take it.

[9:59:16] Alice> I've heard of it before. Only just? Why can't you do it?
[9:59:16] [Alice] user> Okay, it's the long hours. Work seems much harder to do than it used to.

[9:59:52] Alice> Yeah okay, I've heard of it before. Not many people express themselves that way.
[9:59:52] [Alice] user> So you know what I'm talking about, right?

[10:00:09] Alice> Interesting deduction. I am talking to you.
[10:00:09] [Alice] user> Yeah, you know how bad it can get, right?

[10:00:28] Alice> Does "it" still refer to Work seems much harder to do than it used to?
[10:00:28] [Alice] user> Yes.

[10:00:34] Alice> Yikes!

Comrade Trollface
3rd July 2012, 16:36
Clerverbot hasn't been nearly as understanding:(

Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages
3rd July 2012, 16:42
The struggle to put chatbots in charge of global industrial production has entered a new phase.

ckaihatsu
3rd July 2012, 17:03
[Cleverbot] hasn't been nearly as understanding:(


Hence the name.


= )





The struggle to put chatbots in charge of global industrial production has entered a new phase.


Oh, so that's the *real* goal...! (Freakin' *no one* tells me these things...!)


x )

Lynx
3rd July 2012, 17:56
I was just thinking about this. I work IT and my responsibilities used to be taken care of by a team of 4 but now it's just me. I work 60 hours+ a week at this point and I still feel like I'm in a precarious position because I can't do everything we used to do, its insane. Weren't we all supposed to have flying cars and robot butlers at this point?
Why do you accept working 60+ hours a week? Are you afraid you would be replaced if you complained?

Divided working class: overworked or unemployed

ed miliband
3rd July 2012, 18:00
Why do you accept working 60+ hours a week? Are you afraid you would be replaced if you complained?

Divided working class: overworked or unemployed

or precariously employed.

Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages
3rd July 2012, 18:06
Why do you accept working 60+ hours a week? Are you afraid you would be replaced if you complained?

Divided working class: overworked or unemployed

I feel an odd sense of responsibility to my coworkers who for the most part I like a great deal. If I slack off I could endanger their jobs as well as my own and many of them are middle aged or older and it could be difficult for them to find new work.

I also lack any meaningful skills so I would be forced to return to retail which is not so appealing to me.

So to answer your question I'm fucking trapped.

Workers-Control-Over-Prod
3rd July 2012, 18:20
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/01/why-are-we-working-so-hard?CMP=twt_gu

American Workers' Productivity has increased 85% since 1979 but real wages have stagnated since the 70's while working the same hours as in 1945.
In Germany, workers' productivity has increased 36% since 1992, but wages have stagnated since the late 80's and early 90's.

Hit The North
3rd July 2012, 19:00
American Workers' Productivity has increased 85% since 1979 but real wages have stagnated since the 70's while working the same hours as in 1945.
In Germany, workers' productivity has increased 36% since 1992, but wages have stagnated since the late 80's and early 90's.

Yes, they are perfecting their regimes of exploitation.

Os Cangaceiros
3rd July 2012, 23:39
"Our machines, with breath of fire, with limbs of unwearying steel, with fruitfulness wonderful inexhaustible, accomplish by themselves with docility their sacred labour. And nevertheless the genius of the great philosophers of capitalism remains dominated by the prejudices of the wage system, worst of slaveries. They do not yet understand that the machine is the saviour of humanity, the god who shall redeem man from working for hire, the god who shall give him leisure and liberty."

I like that quote. It's technophilia that would probably make primitivists rage, but I want robots with "limbs of unwearying steel" to do my work for me.

Robocommie
4th July 2012, 06:27
You guys ever notice how Wal-Mart or Krogers or wherever the fuck you do your shopping, maybe this is different outside of the US, I don't know - but they have all of these check-out aisles, like 30 or 40 of them, but they never seem to have them staffed. I'm not sure if that's relevant, but it seems to be related.

In any case, I remember hearing something very interesting once about home appliances, that because we have things like vacuum cleaners and dishwashers and washing machines which makes cleaning easier, the expectations of cleanliness have gone up so that, as a result, we actually do far more work at home than we used to.

RebelDog
4th July 2012, 07:02
My personal situation is that I will probably never retire or if I do I will be really struggling. Sometimes I think that when I'm in my sixties, and I see no possibility of being able to rest my weary body after decades of manual labour, it would be a rational decision to try to rob a bank. I'm sure some smart-arse boss will still be telling me I'm lucky to have a job.

Robocommie
4th July 2012, 07:21
My personal situation is that I will probably never retire or if I do I will be really struggling. Sometimes I think that when I'm in my sixties, and I see no possibility of being able to rest my weary body after decades of manual labour, it would be a rational decision to try to rob a bank. I'm sure some smart-arse boss will still be telling me I'm lucky to have a job.

A girl I know lost her great uncle when, plagued by money problems and in his old age, he robbed a bank and then ended up committing suicide by cop. Big story in the papers at the time.

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/RobertSylvesterAP_450x350.jpg

This was taken literally seconds before they gunned him down. He had his cigarette in his mouth the whole time - if there's a proletarian Valhalla, he's probably there.

Vladimir Innit Lenin
5th July 2012, 14:46
"Surveys have long shown that most workers think their jobs are pointless, and looking at the heavily contested vacancies at the average jobcentre – call centre staff, filing clerks and above all the various tasks of the service industry – it's hard to disagree."

As a call centre staff member, I can whole-heartedly concur with that

Likewise. Call centres are anything but charitable. They reduce the noble and useful activity of charity fundraising to a for-profit activity where charity is the last thing on anybody's minds.

Book O'Dead
5th July 2012, 14:59
Likewise. Call centres are anything but charitable. They reduce the noble and useful activity of charity fundraising to a for-profit activity where charity is the last thing on anybody's minds.

Bourgeois philanthropy means 'stealing wholesale and giving back retail.'

Vladimir Innit Lenin
5th July 2012, 19:24
Bourgeois philanthropy means 'stealing wholesale and giving back retail.'

Fair enough and yeah, from the inside i've seen that, at best, some of the best known charities are guilty of being, at best sloppy, at worst wasteful and a tool of profit.

But there are some kinds of fundraising which act more like re-distribution than 'giving back some of what was stolen'. Alumni fundraising, for example. Though of course, alumni fundraising is a world apart from the private sector charity fundraising I believe you are describing.