Briton tried arest Tony Blair in Hong Kong

[Arlekino]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/06/14/briton-tom-grundy-attempt_n_1596399.html

I hope on day will come justice. War criminal.

[l'Enfermé]

Should have thrown a shoe at him, like the Iraqi guy. That was one great guy.

[MuscularTophFan]

Should have thrown a shoe at him, like the Iraqi guy. That was one great guy.
If only that shoe had hit him.:(

[Liberty]

I'm glad Socialists are facing the hand of justice.

Especially after they killed 250 million people.

[Rafiq]

I'm glad Socialists (Tony Blair) are facing the hand of justice.

Especially after they killed 250 million people.

:laugh:

[Rafiq]

No, I'm seriously, actually laughing.

[Prinskaj]

I'm glad Socialists are facing the hand of justice.

Especially after they killed 250 million people.
Are you starting to write the sequel to "The Black Book of Communism"?
If so, then you are doing a pretty damn good job in making shit up.

[Liberty]

Are you starting to write the sequel to "The Black Book of Communism"?
If so, then you are doing a pretty damn good job in making shit up.
Go ahead, disprove my points.

Mao killed 120 million people. Stalin killed 60 million people. Polpot killed 5 million. The Kims killed 10 million. Vietnam killed 8 million. The Communists/Socialists in France and Italy killed 3 million. Communists/Socialists in Africa have killed 10 million+. Communists/Socialists in South America have killed 10 million+. Communists/Socialists in Cuba, alone, have killed over a million. In Central America, 3 million. In India, 5 million. In Eastern Europe, Stalin killed 8 million- and later leaders killed 5 million. Lenin killed 10 million. German Communists/Socialists killed 1 million. Etc...

[Rafiq]

Go ahead, disprove my points.

Mao killed 120 million people. Stalin killed 60 million people. Polpot killed 5 million. The Kims killed 10 million. Vietnam killed 8 million. The Communists/Socialists in France and Italy killed 3 million. Communists/Socialists in Africa have killed 10 million+. Communists/Socialists in South America have killed 10 million+. Communists/Socialists in Cuba, alone, have killed over a million. In Central America, 3 million. In India, 5 million. In Eastern Europe, Stalin killed 8 million- and later leaders killed 5 million. Lenin killed 10 million. German Communists/Socialists killed 1 million. Etc...

Decentralizing your assertion and dividing your obscure calculations do no better in proving such. Fact of the matter is that the highest estamate for Stalin's kill count was 30 million, for Mao, the same. Even those, are complete horse shit, though.

You can't just assert something and say "DISPROVE IT". That's not how the scientific method works. You're asserting something, so it's up to you to prove every single one of those claims, one by one, using credible sources, etc.

[Liberty]

Decentralizing your assertion and dividing your obscure calculations do no better in proving such. Fact of the matter is that the highest estamate for Stalin's kill count was 30 million, for Mao, the same. Even those, are complete horse shit, though.

You can't just assert something and say "DISPROVE IT". That's not how the scientific method works. You're asserting something, so it's up to you to prove every single one of those claims, one by one, using credible sources, etc.
It is common knowledge. Just read Khrushchev's memoirs along with Roy Medvedev's The Unknown Stalin.

Mao is also common knowledge.

[Prinskaj]

Go ahead, disprove my points.

Mao killed 120 million people. Stalin killed 60 million people. Polpot killed 5 million. The Kims killed 10 million. Vietnam killed 8 million. The Communists/Socialists in France and Italy killed 3 million. Communists/Socialists in Africa have killed 10 million+. Communists/Socialists in South America have killed 10 million+. Communists/Socialists in Cuba, alone, have killed over a million. In Central America, 3 million. In India, 5 million. In Eastern Europe, Stalin killed 8 million- and later leaders killed 5 million. Lenin killed 10 million. German Communists/Socialists killed 1 million. Etc...
Everytime I here such number I always feel obligated to give the same retort:"WITH THEIR BARE HANDS!!".
But to be frank:
A) You provide the numbers and the burden of proof is therefore on your side, so you must show these numbers to be correct.
B) When such ridiculously high numbers are provided then there is typically some weird things involved. Such as, if I remember correctly, the number expressed in the Black Book of Communism, about the USSR, also has all the people who were killed during the civil-war and died of the effects of war, such as the burned down agricultural areas
C) Starvation, which is the core of the many deaths during these so-called communist regimes, is a very hard thing to determine the cause of, at least with any degree of precision. But just remember that society also had huge problems with hunger before the regimes took over.

[Arlekino]

Oh this treat about Tony Blair. :)

[Rafiq]

It is common knowledge. Just read Khrushchev's memoirs along with Roy Medvedev's The Unknown Stalin.

Mao is also common knowledge.

Where in Khruschev's memiors did he state that Stalin murdered 60 million humans? As for Mao, it's common knowledge that, during the Great Leap Forward famine, 15 million died of starvation. That isn't really murder. There exists no real, factual statistics which would present such a massive population drop. There isn't one. So how is that common knowledge?

Also, a user provided me with some evidence in regards to Stalin: http://home.ku.edu.tr/~mbaker/CSHS522/GettyMassRepressions.pdf

In this, article, which is both anti Stalinist and credible by bourgeois standards, it states that around 385,000 were killed during the Great Purges. The only massive population drop was around 20 million, but this was during 1941-1945, you know, during world war two. Unless you think, of course, that Stalin just butchered a bunch of Soviet citizens while he was fighting a desperate war with the Germans.

[Liberty]

In this, article, which is both anti Stalinist and credible by bourgeois standards, it states that around 385,000 were killed during the Great Purges. The only massive population drop was around 20 million, but this was during 1941-1945, you know, during world war two. Unless you think, of course, that Stalin just butchered a bunch of Soviet citizens while he was fighting a desperate war with the Germans.
How silly. You disregard the Soviet Holocaust, where millions of Jews were killed because Stalin called them 'American spies.'
The genocide of groups like the Chechens, Crimeans, Germans, and Poles.
The mass killings in the Gulags, where Alexander Solzhenitsyn claims millions were killed.
And don't forget about Holodomor, where Robert conquest claims 14 million people died.

I don't need your red evidence; the Soviet archives have more than proven that Stalin killed 60 million people.

You also affirm that Stalin was a mass murderer, so I don't know why you're playing Devil's Advocate.

Stalin also shot his wife, do you want to defend Stalin against that?

[l'Enfermé]

I mean you can criticise Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot and Korea, but Latin America and India? Seriously? I mean in India the commies have killed a few parasites, but overwhelmingly, it's the commies who have been doing the getting killed, not killing and in Latin America commies have done practically no killing, all they've been doing is getting killed. Killed over a million in Cuba? About 5 thousand died during the Cuban Revolution, mostly killed by Batista, and the Fidel regime executed less than 2,000 in the 1959-1970 period. I mean of the 1,200 CIA lackeys that were captured(118 were killed during the invasion), during the Bay of Pigs, I think, only 13 or so were executed(and mostly for their crimes before the invasion, like murder and torture), and the rest were were imprisoned for 30 years, but were released and flown to Florida in less than a year(and over 1,000 of their family members were allowed to leave as well). What the fuck do you have against Cuba?

[Tim Cornelis]

I was actually just writing something about this. It's not really finished so sentences may not run smoothly, or are not finished yet. And also I added some numbers to 'calculations' but have not yet added them up, so they may be off.


H
I don't need your red evidence; the Soviet archives have more than proven that Stalin killed 60 million people.


Soviet Archives show it was 6 million actually see below:



I will briefly sketch a list of mass murders and hope to do my part to undo the witewashing of history in favour of capitalism. Many capitalist heads of state have been exempted from their crimes and their names forgotton while their crimes parallel those of the socialist heads of state. I do not aim to rehabilitate Stalin.

We are often cynically told that “socialism has killed 200 million people, let’s give it another try!”. Often these numbers are inflated, sometimes by more than ten times. It is often said that Stalin killed 60 million people, by anti-communists, but more often the academic number of 20 million is named. R.J. Rummel, professor at the University of Hawaii, cites the numbers used to reach the conclusion of 20 million victims:
“The figure comes from the book by Robert Conquest, The Great Terror: Stalin’s Purge of the Thirties (Macmillan 1968). In his appendix on casualty figures, he reviews a number of estimates of those that were killed under Stalin, and calculates that the number of executions 1936 to 1938 was probably about 1,000,000; that from 1936 to 1950 about 12,000,000 died in the camps; and 3,500,000 died in the 1930-1936 collectivization.”
These numbers are, however, false, but never rectified. When the Soviet Union collapsed, till then secret archives were opened for public view. These archives accurately exposed the number of victims of Stalin’s regime. Nevertheless, many historians continued to build on previous estimates and thereby staunchly kept repeating the number “20 million victims.”
Soviet Archives opened in 1991 showed that 681,692 people died in the Great Purge; and that 1,053,829 people died in the Gulags from 1934 to 1953. Regarding the Holodomor: “One modern calculation that uses demographic data, including that recently available from Soviet archives, narrows the losses to about 3.2 million or, allowing for the lack of precise data, 3 million to 3.5 million.”
R.J. Rummel, apparently oblivious of the archives which give accurate and exact estimates, he himself insists that 20 million is a gross underestimate and argues the number is closer to 43 million victims.

With the use archives we can see this is not the case. We have 600,000 that died in the Great Purge, plus 3,5 million that died in the Holodomor, and 1,500,000 that died as a result of the gulag system (including those that died after release due to the gulags). In addition to the number of victims of various other campaigns, which adds an additional 500,000, we reach a total of 6,1 million victims of Stalin’s regime.

Allow me to compile this list of “mass murderers,” using standards used by capitalist ideologues, namely: all deaths are the responsibility of the head of state; all excess deaths that occurred due to failures in distribution, production, or government policy are attributable to the ideological system itself (for example, it’s always “Stalin killed X million people” or “socialism killed X million people”). Combatant casualties of war are not included in any list. This list only includes those heads of state or governers who governed after 1850 and maximum estimates of more than one million deaths.

1. Mao Zedong: 20-55 million people (Great Famine and Cultural Revolution).
2. Robert Gascoyne-Cecil (British prime minister) and Victor Bruce (Governer General of India) and George Curzon (Governer General of India): estimates range between 6-19 million people for Indian famines between 1896-1902 (average: 12,5 million).
3. Adolf Hitler: 12 million people (the Holocaust)
4. Benjamin Disraeli (British prime minister) and Robert Bulwer-Lytton (Governer General of India): 8-10 million people (Famines of 1876–1878 in India)
5. King Leopold II: 8-10 million people died in his privately owned land known as the Congo Free State.
6. John Russel (British prime minister): 6-8 million people (Great Irish Famine of 1845-1852 and Orissa Famine of 1866 in India).
7. Josif Stalin: 6,1 million people (see above)
8. Vladimir Lenin: 5 million people (Famines of 1921/22).
9. Winston Churchill: 1,5-4 million people died in the famine of Bengal of 1943.
10. Chiang Kai-Shek: 3 million people (Chinese famine of 1928-1930)
11. Lin Sen: 3 million people (Chinese famine of 1936)
12. Enver Pasha: 2,5 million people (Armenian genocide, and murder of Greek Pontians, Assyrians, and Anatolian Greeks).
13. Henry John Temple (British prime minister) and John Lawrence: 2 million people (Upper Doab Famine of 1860-1861).
14. Kim Il Sung: 2 million people.
15. Pol Pot: 1,5-2 million people.
16. Yahya Khan: 200,000-3 million people in Bangladesh Atrocities of 1971.
17. Yakubu Gwon: 1 million people died in the Biafra famine.
18. Mengistu Haile Mariam: 400,000-1,5 million people (Red Terror in Ethopia)
19. William McKinley: 200,000-1,5 million people (Philippine War of Independence)
20. Sukarno: 500,000-1 million people (anti-communist purge of 1965-1966)

(Note: famines in India under British rule significantly increased both in size and frequency, and in total killed up to 60 million people, with circa 22 million prior to 1850 and circa 37 million after 1850).

On the above list we see more than 17 names whose regimes and policies are responsible for the death of between 83.4 and 145 million people. This list may be incomplete as some mass murderers may not be included, for example Japanese general Hideki Tojo is said to be responsible for the murder of five million people, as well as Chinese famine of 1943 which killed millions of people. In India 7,5 million people are said to die each year due to malnourishment. Additionally, this list may give a tainted view as the accumulative death toll of certain massacres are not included due to it having being carried out by successive heads of state. For example, the US bombing in the Vietnam War may have killed up to one million Cambodians, Laotians, and Vietnamese, but cannot be included in the list as different US presidents were responsible for this slaughter. The same could be said for left-wing insurgencies and guerillas wars all over the world. Similarly, each year 10 million children die because of poverty in capitalist countries (2 million of which in India alone). They do not die because there is a lack of food, sanitary resources, medicine, but because it is not profitiable to provide it to them, and hence they die. They very reasonably be said to die because of the capitalist system which is profit-driven. This means that in the last decade alone, 100 million children have died because of capitalism. Another example is civilian casualties in World War II where some sixty million died on the “Allied” side and twelve million on the “Axis” side. Yet another example may be the Taiping Rebellion between a religious agrarian socialist cult-like Kingdom (Taiping Heavinly Kingdom) on the one side, and the Qing Dinasty and Western imperialist powers on the other. This lead to a war in which roughly twenty million people died, but it is difficult to ascertain who is to blame for these.

Rather than adopt an idealised or a not widely accepted view on capitalism and socialism, respectively, I will define socialism and capitalism by using academic definitions, and will therefore use “actually existing socialism” as being public ownership of the means of production and “actually existing capitalism” as being private ownership of the means of production.

Imperialism is uncontroversially an outgrow of “actually existing capitalism,” as the productive forces advanced as a consequence of the Industrial Revolution modern imperialism was required to sustain economic growth and to satisfy the profit-driven economy that is capitalism. New resources needed to be tapped into, and so modern imperialism was born.

On the capitalist side we therefore have: King Leopold II; John Russel; Lin Sen; Chiang Kai-Shek; Enver Pasha; Sukarno; Henry John Temple; Benjamin Disraeli; Adolf Hitler, Winston Churchill, Robert Gascoyne-Cecil.

These men may not subscribe to an idealised view of capitalism as meaning “free markets,” but the economic model they used was indebt to free trade and private ownership of the means of production.

On the socialist side we see the following names: Pol Pot, Josif Stalin, Mengistu, Vladimir Lenin, Kim Il-Sung, and Mao Zedong.

Socialism lowest estimates: 20+6+5+1,5+2+0.4 = 34.9 million
Socialism highest estimates: 55+6+5+2+2+1,5 = 71.5 million

Capitalism lowest estimates: 6+12+8+8+2+1.5+3+3+2.5+2+0.5 = 49.5 million
Capitalism highest estimates: 19+12+10+10+7+4+3+3+2.5+2+1 = 74.5 million

Looking at this list of mass murderers, we see that “actually existing capitalism” has killed more than “actually existing socialism” has, even without including for example the ten million children that die each year due to the profit-motive and the 7,5 million that die in India due to malnourishment.

I’d also like to point out that while the crimes of these capitalist and socialist leaders parallel each other, the names of the socialist side are much more known. This may in part be due to the fact that the crimes of “actually existing socialism” have generally happened more recently, but it may also be—in part—due to an anti-socialist bias.

[Liberty]

What the fuck do you have against Cuba?
It is the remnants of an age of Democracy against Totalitarian Communism. It is one of the last enemy of Liberty, and its existence is proliferating Communism in countries like Venezuela.

Just look what happened in France. The Socialists and Communists are popular now. The new president even admitted that he supports the Communist effort.

[Rafiq]

How silly. You disregard the Soviet Holocaust, where millions of Jews were killed because Stalin called them 'American spies.'
The genocide of groups like the Chechens, Crimeans, Germans, and Poles.
The mass killings in the Gulags, where Alexander Solzhenitsyn claims millions were killed.
And don't forget about Holodomor, where Robert conquest claims 14 million people died.

I don't need your red evidence; the Soviet archives have more than proven that Stalin killed 60 million people.

You also affirm that Stalin was a mass murderer, so I don't know why you're playing Devil's Advocate.

Stalin also shot his wife, do you want to defend Stalin against that?

Robert Conquest was a fascist sympathizer, and met with the fuhrer himself. It's no surprise he'd blow things out of proportion.

There wasn't a "genocide" in the Soviet Union, no, not by any means. Calling it a holocaust is an insult to the victims of, you know, an actual holocaust. Yes, I am aware various ethnic minorities were discriminated against in several different ways, Jews included, and I am in no way defending or apologizing for that. But to say that they were killed in mass numbers, in millions, is nothing short of absurdity. Stop resorting to emotional arguments, you're losing either way.

I don't consider Stalin a "mass murderer" exclusively. That's not where my criticism of Stalin or Stalinism resides. As a matter of fact, besides the discrimination of ethnic minorities, and the homophobia, etc. I can't say I have a moral criticism of Stalin (Stalin being the Soviet Government between 1928-1953, not really Stalin himself).

[Rafiq]

To Tim, most of that is credible, though, I'm a bit skeptical of the 20-55 million for Mao, and 5 million for the famines in Russia under the pre Stalinist Bolsheviks (I could be wrong though, about the five million). It was recorded 15 million alone died because of famine under Mao, but a mass genocide is something I've never heard of. It is still one of the greatest catastrophes of the 20th century, though.

And, the Soviet Archives never lie. Those, or a lot of those, were concealed from the public. Why would the KGB bullshit itself?

[l'Enfermé]

How silly. You disregard the Soviet Holocaust, where millions of Jews were killed because Stalin called them 'American spies.'
The genocide of groups like the Chechens, Crimeans, Germans, and Poles.
The mass killings in the Gulags, where Alexander Solzhenitsyn claims millions were killed.
And don't forget about Holodomor, where Robert conquest claims 14 million people died.

I don't need your red evidence; the Soviet archives have more than proven that Stalin killed 60 million people.

You also affirm that Stalin was a mass murderer, so I don't know why you're playing Devil's Advocate.

Stalin also shot his wife, do you want to defend Stalin against that?
lol millions of Jews, seriously? sure bro

[Ismail]

FYI, in both Russia pre-1917 and China pre-1949 millions of peasants died in periodic famines. This was mainly because of the fact that agriculture was based on archaic means of tilling the soil and had no scientific content to it, it was just peasants doing what their ancestors did for generations.

Collectivization in the USSR, although resulting in famine due to various incidents of peasant resistance and government ineptness, allowed for the first time comprehensive mechanization and pretty much ended the threat of famine thereafter (save for a brief famine immediately after WWII due to obvious war-related reasons.)

If you want a good read on the Soviet famine during collectivization see The Years of Hunger by Davies and Wheatcroft, both anti-communist academics. There was no "Ukrainian holocaust," the famine caught Soviet authorities by surprise and there were also famine-like conditions in other parts of the USSR during that same time.

Getty on the Ukrainian famine: http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=h-russia&month=0205&week=a&msg=G9gRj0I/eXnblGCPQyYXlA&user=&pw


Just read Khrushchev's memoirsWhy are the words of 'communists' nothing but lies unless they happen to be directed against things capitalists don't like? Khrushchev played a leading role in the Great Purges in the Ukrainian SSR. His "Secret Speech" contains various distortions and outright falsities.

[cynicles]

Oh yeah well Capitalism killed 1.5 trillion people between 1999-2004! Try and disprove that!

lol I can't stop laughing can we keep this thread for giggles?

[Liberty]

lol millions of Jews, seriously? sure bro
It was called rootless cosmopolitanism.

[eric922]

Wait, how in the hell did we go from Tony Blair to "Communists killed millions in like two posts?" Seriously, Liberty, can you at least confine your trolling to threads where it makes some kind of sense.

[Ismail]

It was called rootless cosmopolitanism.And at worst it resulted in executions after trials of a few Jewish intellectuals.

On the campaign see: http://ml-review.ca/aml/CommunistLeague/COSMOPOLITANISM-COMPASS131-1998.HTM

[Zostrianos]

"The total number of noncombatants killed by the Germans—about 11 million—is roughly what we had thought. The total number of civilians killed by the Soviets, however, is considerably less than we had believed. We know now that the Germans killed more people than the Soviets did. That said, the issue of quality is more complex than was once thought. Mass murder in the Soviet Union sometimes involved motivations, especially national and ethnic ones, that can be disconcertingly close to Nazi motivations....

Judging from the Soviet records we now have, the number of people who died in the Gulag between 1933 and 1945, while both Stalin and Hitler were in power, was on the order of a million, perhaps a bit more. The total figure for the entire Stalinist period is likely between two million and three million. The Great Terror and other shooting actions killed no more than a million people, probably a bit fewer. The largest human catastrophe of Stalinism was the famine of 1930–1933, in which more than five million people died....

All in all, the Germans deliberately killed about 11 million noncombatants, a figure that rises to more than 12 million if foreseeable deaths from deportation, hunger, and sentences in concentration camps are included. For the Soviets during the Stalin period, the analogous figures are approximately six million and nine million. These figures are of course subject to revision, but it is very unlikely that the consensus will change again as radically as it has since the opening of Eastern European archives in the 1990s."

(T. Snyder, Bloodlands)

[The Jay]

Go ahead, disprove my points.

Mao killed 120 million people. Stalin killed 60 million people. Polpot killed 5 million. The Kims killed 10 million. Vietnam killed 8 million. The Communists/Socialists in France and Italy killed 3 million. Communists/Socialists in Africa have killed 10 million+. Communists/Socialists in South America have killed 10 million+. Communists/Socialists in Cuba, alone, have killed over a million. In Central America, 3 million. In India, 5 million. In Eastern Europe, Stalin killed 8 million- and later leaders killed 5 million. Lenin killed 10 million. German Communists/Socialists killed 1 million. Etc...


Stalin killed 60 million? Let's think about that. If you want to count WWII military casualties as "victims of socialism" then you should count all the american GIs and other ally powers as "victims of capitalism". Despite all that, and all the others of millions that he supposedly killed how did the population rise in Russia by 9.5 million from 1931 to 1939. Then how did it rise by 11 million in the next 11 years? I'm no fan of Stalin. He did kill a lot of people, but nowhere near 60 million.

Where are you getting these numbers from, the Black Book of Communism? That book has been thoroughly debunked and shown to be a complete mathematical and propagandist lie.

http://http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/population/russia.htm

[Zostrianos]

The only 60 million figure I've seen in more trustworthy sources is Mao, and reportedly most of them died in the famines caused by the Great Leap Forward. The people deliberately put to death under Mao hover around 2 or 3 million, not more. So the Nazis still beat the all time record for deliberate mass murder.

[Ismail]

Many scholars have criticized Bloodlands for, in effect, presenting the view that fascism > communism.

[Zostrianos]

Conservative scholars presumably?

[Ismail]

Conservative scholars presumably?No, various Jewish scholars for instance, who believe that its comparison of the USSR with Nazi Germany is a bad idea.

Grover Furr also weighed in, noting many of Snyder's discredited, right-wing arguments: http://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/timothy_snyder_protest_0412.html (http://msuweb.montclair.edu/%7Efurrg/research/timothy_snyder_protest_0412.html)

[rylasasin]

I'm glad Socialists are facing the hand of justice.
Tony Blair is a socialist? since when?

oh, that's right. I forget. everyone who isn't a fox news watching, glen beck worshiping right wing american republican is a socialist/communist. :rolleyes:

seriously, either educate yourself on the definition of socialism and communism as outlined by marx and engels, or go back to freerepublic or the fox news boards.

[Ocean Seal]

I'm glad Socialists are facing the hand of justice.

Especially after they killed 250 million people.
250 million is a statist fascist estimate my friend. Capitalism cannot kill anyone since it is a voluntary system obviously which has never implemented any coercion. Since that is the case, and anyone who disagrees with me is a foolish malcontent who hasn't even received primary education and would be a fool to consider themselves my equal, I would have to say that socialism has killed everyone who has ever died. Obviously if capitalism didn't kill them then it was socialism.

Every single dead miner employed by crony capitalists, every single war fought by fascist statists, every single person shot dead by the socialist (their government owned obviously) police is a victim of socialism. Even people who have died from any form of disease are dead because of socialism. See cancer and viruses are actually socialist, can't you tell by their collectivist mindset my twin titan Atlas?

[l'Enfermé]

It was called rootless cosmopolitanism.
And that whole anti-semitic campaign initiated by Stalin after WWII culminated in the deaths of a couple of Jewish writers, poets and doctors, Stalin never had the time to carry our this another "Great Purge" because he died too soon. Either way, I don't know the exact amount of Jews left in the USSR after WWII, but since most of them lived in the Ukraine and Belarus before Barbarossa, and most of those were killed by the Nazis during the occupation, there probably weren't "millions" of Jews left for Stalin to kill even if that was his greatest desire.

[Positivist]

And that whole anti-semitic campaign initiated by Stalin after WWII culminated in the deaths of a couple of Jewish writers, poets and doctors, Stalin never had the time to carry our this another "Great Purge" because he died too soon. Either way, I don't know the exact amount of Jews left in the USSR after WWII, but since most of them lived in the Ukraine and Belarus before Barbarossa, and most of those were killed by the Nazis during the occupation, there probably weren't "millions" of Jews left for Stalin to kill even if that was his greatest desire.

It certainly wasn't his greatest desire, nor did he do it.

[Ismail]

And that whole anti-semitic campaign initiated by Stalin after WWII culminated in the deaths of a couple of Jewish writers, poets and doctors, Stalin never had the time to carry our this another "Great Purge" because he died too soon.One of the Medvedev brothers notes that, concerning the "Doctors Plot," this campaign was in the process of being ended by Stalin himself before he died. Erik Van Ree in The Political Thought of Joseph Stalin notes that the whole "rootless cosmopolitan" terminology, when it assumed an anti-semitic character, was criticized by Stalin as... anti-semitic.

[l'Enfermé]

One of the Medvedev brothers notes that, concerning the "Doctors Plot," this campaign was in the process of being ended by Stalin himself before he died. Erik Van Ree in The Political Thought of Joseph Stalin notes that the whole "rootless cosmopolitan" terminology, when it assumed an anti-semitic character, was criticized by Stalin as... anti-semitic.
That's quite possible. I've actually seen some critics of Stalin argue that all that doctor's plot nonsense was an indication of Stalin's senility(the man was 73, I think, in 1952). But I've read Stalin's "Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR", written in 1951 or '52, don't recall which, and it sure as hell wasn't written by a senile old paranoiac, the man was still quite sensible.

[Ismail]

There's a Russian text of a discussion between Stalin and the Argentinian ambassador to the USSR which occurred about a week before Stalin died. He wasn't senile. Not to mention that a few months before he had addressed the 19th Party Congress: http://marx2mao.com/Stalin/SNPC52.html

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqyRoke3TAI (at 0:13 you can see a young Enver Hoxha at the right, listening)

[Luís Henrique]

"The total number of noncombatants killed by the Germans—about 11 million—is roughly what we had thought.

This seems quite an underestimate to me. 11 million would be the number of noncombatants deliberately killed in extermination campaigns in the Eastern front or the Reich territory (half of which Jews, and about 30% ethnic Poles).

All the evidently non-combatant victims of aerial bombing raids and other military operations, both in Eastern and Western fronts, are excluded from this figure.

The actual figures for civilian casualties in WWII are about 12 million just in the former Soviet Union alone, plus 5 million in Poland, 500,000 in former Yugoslavia, 300,000 in Greece, 350,000 in France, 60,000 in the UK, 280,000 in the Netherlands, 76,000 in Belgium, etc. I am not including here deaths in former Czechoslovakia, Rumania, Bulgaria, and Hungary, as they could be the result of the Red Army military operations as well. But the German Wehrmacht and SS certainly killed over 20 million civilians during WWII, both in deliberate extermination campaigns and in indiscriminate aerial bombings, sinking of civilian ships, deliberate or negligent starvation or epidemics, etc.

Luís Henrique

[L.A.P.]

Go ahead, disprove my points.

Okay


Mao killed 120 million people.

Nope


Stalin killed 60 million people.

Nope


Polpot killed 5 million.

*shrugs* Maybe, I'm not sure. Though it's doubtful coming from you.

The Kims killed 10 million.

Nope


Vietnam killed 8 million.

Nope, I'm pretty sure that was the doing of the United States


The Communists/Socialists in France and Italy killed 3 million

The only people they ever killed were Nazis and fascists...with the assistance of the bourgeoisie


Communists/Socialists in Africa have killed 10 million+.

Nope


Communists/Socialists in South America have killed 10 million+.

Nope


Communists/Socialists in Cuba, alone, have killed over a million.

Nope


In Central America, 3 million.

Nope

In India, 5 million.

Nope


In Eastern Europe, Stalin killed 8 million- and later leaders killed 5 million.

Nope


Lenin killed 10 million.

Nope


German Communists/Socialists killed 1 million.

LOL!

There you go, disproven.:)

[Crux]

It is the remnants of an age of Democracy against Totalitarian Communism. It is one of the last enemy of Liberty, and its existence is proliferating Communism in countries like Venezuela.

Just look what happened in France. The Socialists and Communists are popular now. The new president even admitted that he supports the Communist effort.
This is someone who thinks Blair and Mao are basically the same. You lunatic. You want to talk about dictatorships in south america you should take a gander at Honduras. of course you most likely support the coup makers. Democracy has, interestingly, never been of much interests to defenders of "Liberty" especially in south america.

[Luís Henrique]

especially in south america.

Indeed, but I would say that their behaviour is even worse regarding the Middle East.

Luís Henrique

[Spirit]

So...Tony Blair?